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On Marriage: Amarr and Minmatar (Seeking Guidance)

Author
Flavius Arcturus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-01-29 21:41:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Flavius Arcturus
I've made scant few comments that haven't stirred up some sort of hated or disdain but I come today with a very different message.

As I'd made public knowledge in my BIO, My father worked for a Holder as a tender. He was in charge of the care, welfare, and education of those under the Holder's supervision. My mother passed away due to illness very early on in my life, so I was raised by my father under the employ of the Holder.

As a child, I became friends with a young minmatar girl, named Aleria, that was born into servitude on the holders estate. As we aged, we remained close friends. This was never frowned upon by the holder, or my father as the beliefs of both men (and my own) were that even though the relationship between Holder and "the held" is a formal and binding one, the role of The Amarr is more custodial and not an abusive one.er used Vitoc, or transcrainial microcontrollers. The esate nev As we both matured, our relationship continued to grow and mature. We never engaged in any explicit acts, but our own desires to spend time together were readily apparent to each other. When I was 18 years old, my father was killed by a slave uprising. The holder and my father took on projects, if ylou will, with more difficult or rebelious members of the held. One particular member of the estate killed my father as he was giving religious education. I then left the estate with the sponsorship of the Holder that I was under the employ of to become a capsuleer and engage the enemies of The Empire as a Reclaimer.

It has been 10 years since I've been back to that estate, but I've remained in constant contact with my Sponsor and benefator. He has always kept my informed of Aleria and ensured me that she was well taken care of, and that she continued to inquire about me as well. I have always thought of her very fondly. Not even two nights ago, on the ten year aniversary of my fathers death, I received a vidcom from the benefactor. He stated that he knew that Aleria was "special to me" (as he put it, mercifully) and that he had transferred her to my care and that she would be at my quarters in 2 days.

This is why I now come to you. While I have always wanted to be a holder, and to teach and guide those in my care, my feelings for Aleria are....more delicate. I do not to be her Holder, I want to be her Husband. I am looking for guideance from thologians on this matter. I am a true member of The Faith, but have seen no references stating that an Amarr cannot free and them marry a minmatar. It is a common practice even to free those under supervision and employ them, but my interests are more romantic. I Love this woman.

"There will be neither compassion nor mercy; Nor peace, nor solace For those who bear witness to these Signs And still do not believe." - The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming 25:10

Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#2 - 2013-01-29 21:48:41 UTC
The love that dare not speak it's name!


In all seriousness...


Years of servitude have skewed the power dynamics of this relationship beyond any equal footing.

You might well 'free' her but she will never be your equal among your Brethren, nor she be accepted among your peers.

Your current peers, that is.

Sabik now, Sabik forever

Alizabeth Vea
Doomheim
#3 - 2013-01-30 00:17:18 UTC
I'm light on theology-you're not likely to get that sort of thing from an athiest, but what you're proposing is complicated at best. Vitalia is correct. You're going to have to balance which is more important: the opinions of your peers, or your own feelings. For my won experience, I had a forbidden love once, and it did not end well. If you would like to speak more on this, I would be happy to in a less public forum.

Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.

"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I

Virtue. Valor. Victory.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-01-30 00:26:51 UTC
I'm not the best person to ask about either theology or love, and to be honest, I have little enough reason to help you.

But I will say this.

If your God has any sort of mercy, if your God has any sense of decency - in short, if your God loves you like some Amarr claim your God loves everyone - he will understand. He will understand your love, even if no-one else does. If your God loves you, he will let you love - and if he does not, he is not worth your devotion or your faith.

If you truly love this woman and if you truly believe in God, then marry her, and damn opinions. At the end of your life and hers, if there is such a thing as God, he will judge you, but until then, there's no-one else who has the right to judge you for who you love.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#5 - 2013-01-30 00:52:46 UTC  |  Edited by: N'maro Makari
Breaking bounderies is never easy. You will have to accept that your choice of companion will mean a significant degree of alienation from both Minmatar and Amarr. Also you will have to deal with suspicion and stigma regarding her being a slave and you being a holder. These are things which may hold you back significantly in society, your career and in politics (should you ever wish to be a politician)

Also, all due respect to PIE, but I believe the standards are rather high from what I've heard. You may wish to consult your commanding officer as well.

That said, living a life with love that can never be fulfiled is a great burden, and something that wieghs as much if not more than the arguments against. For all of life's delights, its a rather empty place without love.

Think carefully, and do not rush.

**Vherokior **

N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#6 - 2013-01-30 00:55:35 UTC
((double post))

**Vherokior **

Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#7 - 2013-01-30 00:59:10 UTC
You've no hope, sir; there's no more to do
but surrender yourself to the chain.
You're beaten, I see, It's Heaven's decree.
might as well succumb to the pain.
The chain's around your heart now, sir;
you've lost, but yet there's much gain.
For where there's love, and bright stars above,
the eternal hope still hopes to reign.

May your God bless you, and keep you both well and warm.
Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#8 - 2013-01-30 01:07:34 UTC
Mr. Arcturus,

As you've noted, there are no passages in the Scriptures that preach against interracial marriage. We're all children of Amarr are we not? what matters is our soul, not our ethnic origin or place of birth. All should rejoice when two children of God embrace in unity, those who stick their nose up at such a pure union have much to learn in my eyes. Whatever your choice, I wish you each much peace and happiness.

Respectfully,

Simon Louvaki

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb

Kazzzi
Heathen Legion
Iron Men of the Hood
#9 - 2013-01-30 01:16:04 UTC
Flavius Arcturus wrote:
the role of The Amarr is more custodial and not an abusive one.er used Vitoc, or transcrainial microcontrollers.


What's wrong with vitoc or transcranial microcontrollers?
Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#10 - 2013-01-30 01:29:11 UTC
Kazzzi wrote:
Flavius Arcturus wrote:
the role of The Amarr is more custodial and not an abusive one.er used Vitoc, or transcrainial microcontrollers.


What's wrong with vitoc or transcranial microcontrollers?


Seriously?

I think the robbing of free will and the deadly addiction to the drug (in the case of Vitoc) is a pretty big issue. I'm not sure how a Holder can truly lead their flock to God if their doped up and under forced coercion. Its a deadly distraction from faith and duty. A slave doped up on Vitoc will pay lip service to Amarr for their next dose of the drug, not because he's humbled by God and his service to him.

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb

Kazzzi
Heathen Legion
Iron Men of the Hood
#11 - 2013-01-30 01:43:47 UTC
Simon Louvaki wrote:
Kazzzi wrote:
Flavius Arcturus wrote:
the role of The Amarr is more custodial and not an abusive one.er used Vitoc, or transcrainial microcontrollers.


What's wrong with vitoc or transcranial microcontrollers?


Seriously?

.......



I hear you, but I'm mainly interested in Flavius' opinion since he brought it up.
Flavius Arcturus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2013-01-30 02:07:21 UTC
Kazzzi wrote:
Simon Louvaki wrote:
Kazzzi wrote:
Flavius Arcturus wrote:
the role of The Amarr is more custodial and not an abusive one.er used Vitoc, or transcrainial microcontrollers.


What's wrong with vitoc or transcranial microcontrollers?


Seriously?

.......



I hear you, but I'm mainly interested in Flavius' opinion since he brought it up.


That was a typo. The relationship itself was a custodial one. The holder did not use vitoc or transcranial microcontrollers.

those two facts were not intended to be connected. they simply happened to be presented side by side. The issue of Vitoc would be a logistical one. at the same time, it is a temporary one, as I would plan on having her inducted into the capsuleer program and cloned. Thus, the vitoc would cease to be a problem. The transcranial microcontrollers present a much graver isses due to the highly technical surgery required to remove it.


"There will be neither compassion nor mercy; Nor peace, nor solace For those who bear witness to these Signs And still do not believe." - The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming 25:10

Gabriel Darkefyre
Gradient
Electus Matari
#13 - 2013-01-30 02:19:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Gabriel Darkefyre
Flavius Arcturus wrote:
That was a typo. The relationship itself was a custodial one. The holder did not use vitoc or transcranial microcontrollers.

those two facts were not intended to be connected. they simply happened to be presented side by side. The issue of Vitoc would be a logistical one. at the same time, it is a temporary one, as I would plan on having her inducted into the capsuleer program and cloned. Thus, the vitoc would cease to be a problem. The transcranial microcontrollers present a much graver isses due to the highly technical surgery required to remove it.


I'm truly confused on this. On one hand, you say that the Person who was her Holder to date did not use either Vitoc, or Transcranial Microprocessors.

However, you then go on to say that you'll be putting her through the Capsuleer Program to be Cloned in order to bypass the effects of both Vitoc and the Transcranial Microprocessors.

There seems to be a Logical Disconnection between these Statements. They cannot both be true.
von Khan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2013-01-30 02:53:51 UTC  |  Edited by: von Khan
A passage concerning this, urges Amarrians to not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. The direct and obvious import of this passage is that believers ought not to marry unbelievers, for doing so is a clear instance of inequality thus destined to failure. The burden of reason is thus against inter-religious and inter-cultural marriages, in that they normally go against the very community which marriage is designed to establish.

So a question of relevance surface, Is she your equal? Does she truly follow the Lord’s path?

If she doesn’t; her motive can’t be sincere. It is your responsibility first to steward God’s tithe to redemption.

If she does, God calls many people to marriage, in which two souls becoming one flesh, find fulfilment in a profound life of communion. It is a prospect that is both bright and demanding. It is a project for true love which is daily renewed and deepened by sharing joys and sorrows, one marked by complete self-giving. For this reason, to acknowledge the beauty and goodness of marriage is to realize that only a setting of fidelity and indissolubility, along with openness to God’s gift of life, is adequate to the grandeur and dignity of marital love.

Thus my advice to you brother;
If you love her; set her free of chains and commitment.
If she truly loves you; she will return.

von Khan

Flavius Arcturus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2013-01-30 03:25:38 UTC
Gabriel Darkefyre wrote:
Flavius Arcturus wrote:
That was a typo. The relationship itself was a custodial one. The holder did not use vitoc or transcranial microcontrollers.

those two facts were not intended to be connected. they simply happened to be presented side by side. The issue of Vitoc would be a logistical one. at the same time, it is a temporary one, as I would plan on having her inducted into the capsuleer program and cloned. Thus, the vitoc would cease to be a problem. The transcranial microcontrollers present a much graver isses due to the highly technical surgery required to remove it.


I'm truly confused on this. On one hand, you say that the Person who was her Holder to date did not use either Vitoc, or Transcranial Microprocessors.

However, you then go on to say that you'll be putting her through the Capsuleer Program to be Cloned in order to bypass the effects of both Vitoc and the Transcranial Microprocessors.

There seems to be a Logical Disconnection between these Statements. They cannot both be true.


you misread. IF they had been used, cloning would have taken care of them. They are however, not a factor for her as neither had been used

"There will be neither compassion nor mercy; Nor peace, nor solace For those who bear witness to these Signs And still do not believe." - The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming 25:10

Flavius Arcturus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2013-01-30 03:27:01 UTC
von Khan wrote:
A passage concerning this, urges Amarrians to not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. The direct and obvious import of this passage is that believers ought not to marry unbelievers, for doing so is a clear instance of inequality thus destined to failure. The burden of reason is thus against inter-religious and inter-cultural marriages, in that they normally go against the very community which marriage is designed to establish.

So a question of relevance surface, Is she your equal? Does she truly follow the Lord’s path?

If she doesn’t; her motive can’t be sincere. It is your responsibility first to steward God’s tithe to redemption.

If she does, God calls many people to marriage, in which two souls becoming one flesh, find fulfilment in a profound life of communion. It is a prospect that is both bright and demanding. It is a project for true love which is daily renewed and deepened by sharing joys and sorrows, one marked by complete self-giving. For this reason, to acknowledge the beauty and goodness of marriage is to realize that only a setting of fidelity and indissolubility, along with openness to God’s gift of life, is adequate to the grandeur and dignity of marital love.

Thus my advice to you brother;
If you love her; set her free of chains and commitment.
If she truly loves you; she will return.


thank you for your imput. I planned on freeing her. In addition, she is a true believer.

"There will be neither compassion nor mercy; Nor peace, nor solace For those who bear witness to these Signs And still do not believe." - The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming 25:10

Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#17 - 2013-01-30 04:03:47 UTC
It would have been prudent to handle this affair privately Initiate Arcturus, but since the matter is already in the open I will comment also.

You are a capsuleer and you do not need to care about social norms insofar as it does not threaten your social position among your new peers. This does include your peers in PIE Inc., mind you.

That said, even if you did have to consider regular Imperial social norms, this situation is not unheard of. Many have taken slaves or former slaves as a spouse, some of them even being Holders, though much to the chagrin of their families. You, however, were born a commoner and the same expectations of marrying highborns with wealth and reputation do not apply. It is obviously not considered favorable to take a non-believer as wife, but it seems everything is covered on that front.

Quote:
Thank you for your input. I planned on freeing her. In addition, she is a true believer.


That is all you need to do. If she is a legal citizen of the Empire, nobody has a right to judge you for marrying her. Strictly speaking it is in fact quite socially appropriate as you are both commoners.

I wish you luck, Initiate.

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu

Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2013-01-30 04:07:23 UTC
I don't see a problem either. A good life as a couple will give you morale, serenity and strenght, and will make you a stronger combat pilot and thus more capable of fulfilling your duties to the Empire and the Praetoria. If she is set free and believes in God, then she's just like any other citizen, at least to the eyes of the law and marriage, and there should be no problem.

The other side of the coin: if you don't marry her, she will trouble your thoughts, make you doubt, be insecure, lack focus... You'd be thinking of her and what could or could not have been, and that would reflect poorly on your performance. And in doing so, you would be failing the Empire, and that is the gravest of all wrongs.

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander

Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#19 - 2013-01-30 07:33:06 UTC
Should a teacher enter into a relationship with a student?

Should a doctor enter into a relationship with a patient?

Should a farmer enter into a relationship with his livestock?

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Alizabeth Vea
Doomheim
#20 - 2013-01-30 07:41:30 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
Should a teacher enter into a relationship with a student?

Should a doctor enter into a relationship with a patient?

Should a farmer enter into a relationship with his livestock?


And that last analogy- that is why people hate you.

Arcturus, marry the girl, steal as much as you can from PIE and find your place somewhere in the cluster not inhabited by morons. I'd recommend either a CFC alliance or the Federation.

Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.

"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I

Virtue. Valor. Victory.

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