These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Missions & Complexes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Observations on Reward
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Xenuria
#1 - 2013-01-29 20:19:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Xenuria
I have been collecting some data as of late on the Reward aspect of EVE Online PVE. I have come to notice a rather frustrating reality with regards to the Standing rewards of different level missions. I have also noticed inconsistencies in the level of difficulty in missions and/or the reward(s) offered.



  • There is no proportionate improvement in Standing Earned from doing Higher level Missions above level 2s. Some Level 4 missions give less standing than missions that are level 3 and below. Example: a difficult level 4 giving less standing than an easy level 3.

  • Story-Line Missions which are supposed to be more rewarding than regular missions will often give very low faction and corp standing regardless of what Level the Story-Line Mission is. Sometimes the standing reward for a Story-Line can be as low as 1%.

  • There is disproportionately more Loyalty Points offered for Level 5 Missions than for even the most difficult of Level 4 Missions.

  • Many Level 3 Missions have Neut Towers and Stasis Towers when the majority of Level 4 missions have neither. Stranger still, Level 5 Missions Often have at least one of these types of opposition.



-Examples-

The level 2 Mission "Recon (1 of 3)" Gave me 2.2312% Standing Reward
A few Missions later I did a level 2 for the same agent called "The Drone Infestation" and I was only awarded 0.7628%.
As you can see a very EASY and QUICK mission like Recon 1 of 3 gave me far more standing than a mission that actually required me to pay attention and put in at least some effort.

CSM 12 Candidate
Achenar Chertio
Rajatapaukset Oy
#2 - 2013-01-29 23:35:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Achenar Chertio
Xenuria wrote:

  • There is disproportionately more Loyalty Points offered for Level 5 Missions than for even the most difficult of Level 4 Missions.

    • I think this one is working as intended because you can only do level 5 missions on low sec/nullsec and the whole concept of higher risk = higher reward. Also did you take into consideration that you'll be splitting the rewards with multiple people as they're supposed to be done in groups?
    Xenuria
    #3 - 2013-01-29 23:36:54 UTC
    Achenar Chertio wrote:
    Xenuria wrote:

  • There is disproportionately more Loyalty Points offered for Level 5 Missions than for even the most difficult of Level 4 Missions.

    • I think this one is working as intended because you can only do level 5 missions on low sec/nullsec and the whole concept of higher risk = higher reward. Also did you take into consideration that you'll be splitting the rewards with multiple people as they're supposed to be done in groups?


    Yes and I feel even considering the factors you mention, that it is out of proportion if only mathematically.

    CSM 12 Candidate
    Rengerel en Distel
    #4 - 2013-01-30 03:16:19 UTC
    yes, and ... ? most people that have done any missions in the game are aware of this. are you just asking for other people to agree with you that it doesn't make sense? PVE in eve is hardly high on CCP's fix list.

    With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
    Chainsaw Plankton
    FaDoyToy
    #5 - 2013-01-30 04:03:40 UTC
    rewards are based on completion times. plenty of newbs seem to have a ton of problems with lv2 recon 1/3. nearly every time I remember reading a "zomg wft ccp this lv2 is impossible" post, it is recon lv2, yes they actually try to kill everything. I wouldn't be surprised to see many just abandon it rather than wait for dt and it to reset.

    @ChainsawPlankto on twitter
    Xenuria
    #6 - 2013-01-30 04:05:17 UTC
    Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
    rewards are based on completion times.


    Uhh no.

    CSM 12 Candidate
    Tauranon
    Weeesearch
    CAStabouts
    #7 - 2013-01-30 04:07:51 UTC
    Xenuria wrote:


    -Examples-

    The level 2 Mission "Recon (1 of 3)" Gave me 2.2312% Standing Reward
    A few Missions later I did a level 2 for the same agent called "The Drone Infestation" and I was only awarded 0.7628%.
    As you can see a very EASY and QUICK mission like Recon 1 of 3 gave me far more standing than a mission that actually required me to pay attention and put in at least some effort.


    The rewards are based on how long it takes the players on average to complete the mission.

    recon 1 is a ship fountain, which fountains high value pirate npcs. People sit in them to shoot bounties.

    drone anything sucks, and a drone anything that is probably a 1 structure blitzable is probably dealt with by everyone but you in 30 seconds, hence the tiny reward. Amusing that you got them both backwards like that.
    Tauranon
    Weeesearch
    CAStabouts
    #8 - 2013-01-30 04:19:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
    Xenuria wrote:
    I have been collecting some data as of late on the Reward aspect of EVE Online PVE. I have come to notice a rather frustrating reality with regards to the Standing rewards of different level missions. I have also noticed inconsistencies in the level of difficulty in missions and/or the reward(s) offered.


    [list]
  • There is no proportionate improvement in Standing Earned from doing Higher level Missions above level 2s. Some Level 4 missions give less standing than missions that are level 3 and below. Example: a difficult level 4 giving less standing than an easy level 3.

  • Story-Line Missions which are supposed to be more rewarding than regular missions will often give very low faction and corp standing regardless of what Level the Story-Line Mission is. Sometimes the standing reward for a Story-Line can be as low as 1%.


    • This is because the mission elapsed time for dock at station accept mission, buy kernite, hand in mission is tiny.

    This is also why great piles of kernite get freightered to gallente space and why kernite in some stations has both turnover and runs at 20% premium to the rest of the region, and why there is 0.01 wars for kernite sales in the middle of nowhere, with absolutely no buy orders.

    If you get a combat mission for your storyline, you'll find the reward timer is not out of whack, and you'll thus get a much larger chunk of standing when its done.
    Xenuria
    #9 - 2013-01-30 15:18:16 UTC
    Tauranon wrote:
    Xenuria wrote:
    I have been collecting some data as of late on the Reward aspect of EVE Online PVE. I have come to notice a rather frustrating reality with regards to the Standing rewards of different level missions. I have also noticed inconsistencies in the level of difficulty in missions and/or the reward(s) offered.


    [list]
  • There is no proportionate improvement in Standing Earned from doing Higher level Missions above level 2s. Some Level 4 missions give less standing than missions that are level 3 and below. Example: a difficult level 4 giving less standing than an easy level 3.

  • Story-Line Missions which are supposed to be more rewarding than regular missions will often give very low faction and corp standing regardless of what Level the Story-Line Mission is. Sometimes the standing reward for a Story-Line can be as low as 1%.


    • This is because the mission elapsed time for dock at station accept mission, buy kernite, hand in mission is tiny.

    This is also why great piles of kernite get freightered to gallente space and why kernite in some stations has both turnover and runs at 20% premium to the rest of the region, and why there is 0.01 wars for kernite sales in the middle of nowhere, with absolutely no buy orders.

    If you get a combat mission for your storyline, you'll find the reward timer is not out of whack, and you'll thus get a much larger chunk of standing when its done.


    I think you are missing my point, I am not talking about a simple hand in storyline. I am talking about storylines in general. Even combat storyline with 3-4 rooms don't always give as much standing as a regular mission.

    CSM 12 Candidate
    Turelus
    Utassi Security
    #10 - 2013-01-30 18:18:42 UTC
    Quote:

    There is no proportionate improvement in Standing Earned from doing Higher level Missions above level 2s. Some Level 4 missions give less standing than missions that are level 3 and below. Example: a difficult level 4 giving less standing than an easy level 3.

    Not all missions should give high standings, there is little reason to give 4% standing increase for Cargo Delivery when everyone blitzes it in a interceptor.
    As far as I understand (though could be wrong) the standings seem to be inline with the LP gains which change depending on average speed the mission is completed.

    Quote:
    Story-Line Missions which are supposed to be more rewarding than regular missions will often give very low faction and corp standing regardless of what Level the Story-Line Mission is. Sometimes the standing reward for a Story-Line can be as low as 1%.

    Annoys the hell out of me but there is a very small number of story missions in the pool. Minerals for War will give me a tiny amount but then I do what most do and buy the minerals in station and complete it in seconds. Combat missions which take longer give me a good 12% and the long distance hauling missions of 40km3 give me about 40% (that's corp standings not faction, and faction gains are a % value of the corp gain IIRC)

    Quote:
    There is disproportionately more Loyalty Points offered for Level 5 Missions than for even the most difficult of Level 4 Missions.

    They have always been this way and work well, more ISK being sunk from the game and a very high reward for missions which should be hard to achieve.

    Quote:
    Many Level 3 Missions have Neut Towers and Stasis Towers when the majority of Level 4 missions have neither. Stranger still, Level 5 Missions Often have at least one of these types of opposition.

    I haven't done level three missions in a long time so I can't really say much on that.


    Turelus CEO Utassi Security
    Tauranon
    Weeesearch
    CAStabouts
    #11 - 2013-01-30 21:02:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
    Xenuria wrote:
    I think you are missing my point, I am not talking about a simple hand in storyline. I am talking about storylines in general. Even combat storyline with 3-4 rooms don't always give as much standing as a regular mission.


    Faction standing is not corp standing, they are not equivalent in value. Regular missions do not have faction standing.

    In any case - the highest reward currently available in a storyline in highsec is a random reward roll in the (now rare) shipyard theft - mining foreman mindlink. ie I'm amused by your accountants 5% myopia, whilst a reward so giant that it not only dwarfs other missions reward, it probably dwarfs whatever ,most people wanted to _do_ with the standing when they were done exists.
    Xenuria
    #12 - 2013-01-30 21:17:51 UTC
    Tauranon wrote:
    Xenuria wrote:
    I think you are missing my point, I am not talking about a simple hand in storyline. I am talking about storylines in general. Even combat storyline with 3-4 rooms don't always give as much standing as a regular mission.


    Faction standing is not corp standing, they are not equivalent in value. Regular missions do not have faction standing.

    In any case - the highest reward currently available in a storyline in highsec is a random reward roll in the (now rare) shipyard theft - mining foreman mindlink. ie I'm amused by your accountants 5% myopia, whilst a reward so giant that it not only dwarfs other missions reward, it probably dwarfs whatever ,most people wanted to _do_ with the standing when they were done exists.


    I am sorry but I have no idea what you are trying to say.

    CSM 12 Candidate
    Tauranon
    Weeesearch
    CAStabouts
    #13 - 2013-01-30 23:18:15 UTC
    Xenuria wrote:
    Tauranon wrote:
    Xenuria wrote:
    I think you are missing my point, I am not talking about a simple hand in storyline. I am talking about storylines in general. Even combat storyline with 3-4 rooms don't always give as much standing as a regular mission.


    Faction standing is not corp standing, they are not equivalent in value. Regular missions do not have faction standing.

    In any case - the highest reward currently available in a storyline in highsec is a random reward roll in the (now rare) shipyard theft - mining foreman mindlink. ie I'm amused by your accountants 5% myopia, whilst a reward so giant that it not only dwarfs other missions reward, it probably dwarfs whatever ,most people wanted to _do_ with the standing when they were done exists.


    I am sorry but I have no idea what you are trying to say.


    Storylines give faction standing. If you get to 5 or whatever, then every single corp level 4 agent in that faction opens up, and you get the right to drop pos's in highsec.

    The faction standing from storylines is a far more valuable thing than the corp standing from regular missions, so they cannot be compared 1:1 as a numerical amount (whether or not your storyline mission also gives corp standing to the storyline agents corp is irrelevant imo, its often the wrong corp).

    Mining foreman mindlink is worth 1.2bil last time I looked, which is a rather amusing figure to contemplate in thread about rewards.
    Souris Blanche
    Doomheim
    #14 - 2013-01-31 05:43:41 UTC
    Xenuria wrote:
    Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
    rewards are based on completion times.


    Uhh no.



    What he meant (i assume) was, over time, CCP automatically adjusts the amount of LP and ISK is rewarded based on the average time it takes to complete that particular mission. Since a lot of newbies don't read the mission description for missions such as Recon 1 of 3, they try to fight thru it, possibly losing ships and taking a longer time than simply flying thru the mission and activating the gate like it is intended. Over time, these long completion times raise the average, making Recon payout higher than missions that take similar amount of time, like say Cargo Delivery.

    For another example, The Assault L4 is another mission where this happens. The gates in Room 1 and Room 2 are unlocked and you can go right thru them without having to kill all the ships. Some people kill all the ships because they don't know about this, so average completion times go up and the mission pays out the maximum amount of LP for a L4 mission.


    In addition, the lower security the system is where your agent is located, the higher the LP payout. For every 0.1 sec you go down, you go up 10% for the LP and ISK reward (bounties, loot, and salvage stay the same). So, for example, if you did Worlds Collide L4 for an agent in a 1.0 sec system, then go do the same mission for an agent in a 0.5 sec system, you get approx. 50% more LP and ISK. This is one of the reasons that lowsec and nullsec missions payout higher amounts of LP than hisec missions. Since this is actually calculated based on the truesec of the system the agent is in, it even makes some 0.5 sec system payout more than others. Where the game rounds off the truesec (4 decimal places) to one decimal place, the sec you see displayed on the screen in-game isn't the exact truesec. A system with a truesec of 0.4717 is still considered hisec since it rounds to 0.5, but it pays more LP than a system with a truesec of 0.5314... about 5% more LP.