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Anti cloak

Author
Fluffy Sheep
Contra Operative Knights
#1 - 2013-01-29 08:36:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Fluffy Sheep
It's been talked of so many times.

The cloaky locks down systems. Over and over again. They are imbalanced. The damage they can and do, far outweighs their possible personal loss when they are uncloaked to do the deed.

It's time this was sorted. It seriously screws with enjoyment of the game for far too many players.

The balance is the ability of players to have the definitive ability (if proppery fitted and trained) to actively find the cloaked player before they do something. Would you put a revolver to your head and play Russian roulette? The sane answer is no. Yet the cloaky sympathizers are effectively saying players should do so. The majority of players are sane, so they dock and or log day after day. How is this good for gameplay?

I agree this should take skills. But it should be readily doable.

It's so completely wrong that an inactive / afk player can be effectively invulnerable to active players and only vulnerable AFTER they have done the damage.

I'm getting sick of it as are other players who I'm watching give up on the game because of this crap. Can't find them, can't fight them, but you can die to them. Yay.

Two suggestions.

1) Old idea... high tech / skill destroyer that does what destroyers do. Find & detect subs. Or in this case, cloaky's.

2) Random thought that popped into my head... A command link that increases the scan strength or whatever of combat probes to make finding and dealing with them more doable. If the cloaky is active and see's the combat scanners out, they can bounce about to their safes or log off themselves. If afk or not actively scanning themselves, they are likely dead. Seems like balance to me.

Sort this **** out. Give us the realistic options that will be used to ACTIVELY play the game.
Evanga
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2013-01-29 08:53:31 UTC
You heard of them black ops buff? Ill sent my rapier alt over to your place :-)
Mag's
Azn Empire
#3 - 2013-01-29 10:12:20 UTC
Whilst they are AFK, what mechanic are they using to interact with you?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2013-01-29 10:25:16 UTC
Learn

To

Search.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#5 - 2013-01-29 10:46:11 UTC
*yawn* This again?

Quote:
The cloaky locks down systems.

No. No they don't. Your fear does. The counter to fear lies in being prepared... not in having a new mechanic added to make you more secure.

Quote:
The majority of players are sane, so they dock and or log day after day.

Those are not "sane" players. Those are players who don't want to adapt and work together to ensure each others' safety. Fly in groups and use different ships that can...

- kill a [near] tankless Stealth Bombers in less than a few few seconds (artillery ftw)
- ECM or damp recons so they can't point anything (so everyone can escape)
- appear to be more trouble than you're worth to any PvP gang
- warp away as soon as anyone decloaks nearby (remember, only Stealth Bombers can immediately target after decloaking and they have no tank... Recons and T3s require 5 to 7 seconds before they can achieve lock due to a delay)

Quote:
It's so completely wrong that an inactive / afk player can be effectively invulnerable to active players and only vulnerable AFTER they have done the damage.

It's a good thing that you too are fairly "invulnerable" to someone who is cloaked as they can't take any offensive action while cloaked.
When they decloak... kill them.

Quote:
Would you put a revolver to your head and play Russian roulette?

I would if I got some friends to shoot anyone who made me put the gun to my head. Then I'd go about my business.
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#6 - 2013-01-29 11:56:59 UTC
Remove cloaked vessel from Local, deny that vessel local intel when cloaked.

Problem solved.



Oh andthe OP needs to stop being a MASSIVE carebear. (your name is so appropriate)

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Roime
Shiva Furnace
#7 - 2013-01-29 12:31:20 UTC
Sorry that your bots don't work

.

Hakan MacTrew
MUTED VOID
#8 - 2013-01-29 12:37:16 UTC
What would you do if local did not exist? You would take precautions so that you could gtfo if you needed to.

Local gives you an edge, because you know how many are there. If theres one, and nothing on Dscan, its cloaked. Stay aligned and watch local for spikes and Dscan for incoming ships. Solo mining now becomes iffy, but still not impossible. Fit a multispectral ecm in a midslot, you can get away from everything but a falcon that way. Even then, you have a fair chance to gtfo before you get locked, especially in a nano skiff, mining at 800m/s for lols. You can also try to mine grabs instead of belts, save them till your not alone or with trusted company. When.you see probes, you know your not alone and their not afk.

In short, your FEAR is the enemies weapon. Grow a pair or mine in highsec.

As for exploration and missions, of you have an acceleration gate, your fairly safe. Drop a can when you hit the landing point and it will decloack enemies, not to mention they will decloack after using the gate too. So watch Dscan, use safe points. Watch for probes!

So, grow a pair or go back to highsec!
TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-01-29 12:38:37 UTC  |  Edited by: TheSkeptic
Fluffy Sheep wrote:
can't fight them, but you can die to them.


I'm confused... how can you die to them without being able to fight them?
(unless they're using falcons and ECM?)

Also what about players who AFK in a pos? they should too be made vulnerable when AFK should they not?
Maybe you'd like the idea that if you don't rub your ship against the tower once every 2 minutes you get ejected from the pos shields.

...

Willow corpus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-01-29 13:21:00 UTC
Fluffy Sheep wrote:
It's been talked of so many times.

The cloaky locks down systems. Over and over again. They are imbalanced. The damage they can and do, far outweighs their possible personal loss when they are uncloaked to do the deed.

It's time this was sorted. It seriously screws with enjoyment of the game for far too many players.

The balance is the ability of players to have the definitive ability (if proppery fitted and trained) to actively find the cloaked player before they do something. Would you put a revolver to your head and play Russian roulette? The sane answer is no. Yet the cloaky sympathizers are effectively saying players should do so. The majority of players are sane, so they dock and or log day after day. How is this good for gameplay?

I agree this should take skills. But it should be readily doable.

It's so completely wrong that an inactive / afk player can be effectively invulnerable to active players and only vulnerable AFTER they have done the damage.

I'm getting sick of it as are other players who I'm watching give up on the game because of this crap. Can't find them, can't fight them, but you can die to them. Yay.

Two suggestions.

1) Old idea... high tech / skill destroyer that does what destroyers do. Find & detect subs. Or in this case, cloaky's.

2) Random thought that popped into my head... A command link that increases the scan strength or whatever of combat probes to make finding and dealing with them more doable. If the cloaky is active and see's the combat scanners out, they can bounce about to their safes or log off themselves. If afk or not actively scanning themselves, they are likely dead. Seems like balance to me.

Sort this **** out. Give us the realistic options that will be used to ACTIVELY play the game.



I agree, it hurts only the small alliances and groups, huge alliances and coalitions are not affected by being able to repel any kind of attack on a moments notice, and because they have so many players they can and usually do have a large amount of afk cloakers in other systems to get easy kills or to grief.

I think it needs to be changed as well, I think cloaking is fine but when somebody can effectively shut down a systems operation for 23/7 just by logging in and cloaking, game over system is now useless
Willow corpus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-01-29 13:29:12 UTC
IF nothing else, I want a module to put on my cloaky ships that will shutdown the moon mining for a poss (that I can use while cloaked


This way when my ratting system gets camp I can go camp the offenders moon mining poss's and inflict damage much the same way that they do.
TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-01-29 14:46:02 UTC
Willow corpus wrote:
IF nothing else, I want a module to put on my cloaky ships that will shutdown the moon mining for a poss (that I can use while cloaked


This way when my ratting system gets camp I can go camp the offenders moon mining poss's and inflict damage much the same way that they do.


tbh the same thing that stops you ratting would prevent you getting within 10jumps of their moon.

...

Willow corpus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-01-29 14:50:05 UTC
TheSkeptic wrote:
Willow corpus wrote:
IF nothing else, I want a module to put on my cloaky ships that will shutdown the moon mining for a poss (that I can use while cloaked


This way when my ratting system gets camp I can go camp the offenders moon mining poss's and inflict damage much the same way that they do.


tbh the same thing that stops you ratting would prevent you getting within 10jumps of their moon.



What? gate camps, you have a very fair chance to mwd/cloak out of bubbles, unless you have **** for internet, they wont lock a cloaky, granted there is a small chance they can uncloak you before you get out of the bubble
Willow corpus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-01-29 14:52:10 UTC
double post
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#15 - 2013-01-29 15:55:42 UTC

Cloaky Camping is a lame tactic... but do you know what's more lame than them???

Nullbears that dock up and log off rather than adapting to the situation!!

Dealing with AFK cloakers is not very hard... you just have to be smart...
--- Use a BC to "rat"... it's not very blingy, it doesn't cost all that much, and they can fight back...
--- Fly in a group... Several ships can shred most recons... especially if they are stuck in place for 30 seconds...
--- Move to the system next door...
--- Stop sucking!

Willow corpus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-01-29 16:05:14 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Cloaky Camping is a lame tactic... but do you know what's more lame than them???

Nullbears that dock up and log off rather than adapting to the situation!!

Dealing with AFK cloakers is not very hard... you just have to be smart...
--- Use a BC to "rat"... it's not very blingy, it doesn't cost all that much, and they can fight back...
--- Fly in a group... Several ships can shred most recons... especially if they are stuck in place for 30 seconds...
--- Move to the system next door...
--- Stop sucking!




Yes switching from 35 mil in bounties + about 30mil in salvage every 20 minutes to

ratting in belts getting 2-4 mil every 20 in bounties is a feasible trade off (sarcasm)

EVEN IF we catch the cloaker, and kill him he loses what? at most 20mil for a covert ops ship and maybe 10 mil in fittings?
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#17 - 2013-01-29 16:11:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
Willow corpus wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Cloaky Camping is a lame tactic... but do you know what's more lame than them???

Nullbears that dock up and log off rather than adapting to the situation!!

Dealing with AFK cloakers is not very hard... you just have to be smart...
--- Use a BC to "rat"... it's not very blingy, it doesn't cost all that much, and they can fight back...
--- Fly in a group... Several ships can shred most recons... especially if they are stuck in place for 30 seconds...
--- Move to the system next door...
--- Stop sucking!




Yes switching from 35 mil in bounties + about 30mil in salvage every 20 minutes to

ratting in belts getting 2-4 mil every 20 in bounties is a feasible trade off (sarcasm)

EVEN IF we catch the cloaker, and kill him he loses what? at most 20mil for a covert ops ship and maybe 10 mil in fittings?


And how much do you make while docked or logged off?

How much of your bounties would it take to convince a friend to fly an ECM ship as cover?
How much of your bounties is sacrificed by ratting in the system next door?
How long do you have to rat before you pay for your ship with the bounties you make? (you could look at ship loss as just part of the nullsec earning line)....
Random Majere
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-01-29 16:13:58 UTC
AFK cloackies help CCP make more money. So do not think something will be done about this.
Willow corpus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-01-29 16:17:26 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Willow corpus wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Cloaky Camping is a lame tactic... but do you know what's more lame than them???

Nullbears that dock up and log off rather than adapting to the situation!!

Dealing with AFK cloakers is not very hard... you just have to be smart...
--- Use a BC to "rat"... it's not very blingy, it doesn't cost all that much, and they can fight back...
--- Fly in a group... Several ships can shred most recons... especially if they are stuck in place for 30 seconds...
--- Move to the system next door...
--- Stop sucking!




Yes switching from 35 mil in bounties + about 30mil in salvage every 20 minutes to

ratting in belts getting 2-4 mil every 20 in bounties is a feasible trade off (sarcasm)

EVEN IF we catch the cloaker, and kill him he loses what? at most 20mil for a covert ops ship and maybe 10 mil in fittings?


And how much do you make while docked or logged off?


You forget the other options, (jump cloning to hisec or pvp area)

also, if I start ratting afk cloaker comes back to keyboard (while after 5 mins or 5 hours? who knows) then sees wrecks on overview and sets up the logistics for possibly a cyno in (or roaming fleet)

Lets sey he kills my bc, not only did I lose a bc, I also made it worth his time to camp the system.


It is simply better to let him afk in an empty system because he will eventually get bored and leave
````
Willow corpus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-01-29 16:18:46 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Willow corpus wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Cloaky Camping is a lame tactic... but do you know what's more lame than them???

Nullbears that dock up and log off rather than adapting to the situation!!

Dealing with AFK cloakers is not very hard... you just have to be smart...
--- Use a BC to "rat"... it's not very blingy, it doesn't cost all that much, and they can fight back...
--- Fly in a group... Several ships can shred most recons... especially if they are stuck in place for 30 seconds...
--- Move to the system next door...
--- Stop sucking!




Yes switching from 35 mil in bounties + about 30mil in salvage every 20 minutes to

ratting in belts getting 2-4 mil every 20 in bounties is a feasible trade off (sarcasm)

EVEN IF we catch the cloaker, and kill him he loses what? at most 20mil for a covert ops ship and maybe 10 mil in fittings?


And how much do you make while docked or logged off?

How much of your bounties would it take to convince a friend to fly an ECM ship as cover?
How much of your bounties is sacrificed by ratting in the system next door?
How long do you have to rat before you pay for your ship with the bounties you make? (you could look at ship loss as just part of the nullsec earning line)....



in my particular situation goons also camp the system next to it
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