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CCP... The Simple Solution to the NPC Corp Issue

Author
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#81 - 2013-01-28 18:04:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Reuben Johnson wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
...i just find it odd how so many people in a capitalist simulation are determined to engage in monolithic collectivist activities when commodities and services can be purchased from other players who specialise.

I've also have always found that to be so common, yet so odd, in many MMO's myself. But as in RL, the Collectivists have a natural enemy in the Indivisualist. as long as their is one Indivisualist around, the Collective is always threatened.

That doesn't really apply to this dicussion though since there are huge numbers of 'individualists' who play with 1-man player corps, while most of the largest collectivist organizations in the game use alts in NPC corps to ferry alliance supplies, logistics and moongoo around unimpeded.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#82 - 2013-01-28 18:04:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Kitty Bear
Diablo Ex wrote:

.. [snip] ..


Eve is a complex, and complicated system.
Solutions to imagined problems are unneccasary.
But if they were required, they would probably be complex and complicated solutions.


What you view as a problem or a game-mechanic deficiency is also viewed as a vitaly required component of the whole by someone else.
Generally all the [Fix Nulsec], [Fix Lowsec], [Nerf Hisec] threads are based on personal perceptions that ignore the wider implications of the EvE system as a whole, and those perceptions are typically based on [/stupid].
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#83 - 2013-01-28 18:50:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Skeln Thargensen
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Reuben Johnson wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
...i just find it odd how so many people in a capitalist simulation are determined to engage in monolithic collectivist activities when commodities and services can be purchased from other players who specialise.

I've also have always found that to be so common, yet so odd, in many MMO's myself. But as in RL, the Collectivists have a natural enemy in the Indivisualist. as long as their is one Indivisualist around, the Collective is always threatened.

That doesn't really apply to this dicussion though since there are huge numbers of 'individualists' who play with 1-man player corps, while most of the largest collectivist organizations in the game use alts in NPC corps to ferry alliance supplies, logistics and moongoo around unimpeded.


so not only are you going to give them advance notice that you intend to gank their freighter, you're going to give them warning when you're in system?

they only have to get their cargo to the nearest station and they can contract it to anywhere in NPC space. and yes rates are cheap enough to even contract mineral hauling in highsec

you're much better off suicide ganking them if you want to disrupt their operations and that is totally feasible for a big corp to do and entirely possible now.

forums.  serious business.

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#84 - 2013-01-28 20:29:45 UTC
People moan and whine about having to pay 600m isk to dec goonswarm now, yet paying 600m ISK cost per single freighter attack is now 'totally feasible' disruption operation? Heh.

Minimal courier costs and guaranteed delivery are just some of the things that will be fixed by removing NPC corps and other forms of wardec evasion. Imagine if those horrid collectivist groups had to actively defend their supply lines instead of just effortlessly moving goods through proxies and alts.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#85 - 2013-01-28 20:47:46 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
People moan and whine about having to pay 600m isk to dec goonswarm now, yet paying 600m ISK cost per single freighter attack is now 'totally feasible' disruption operation? Heh.

Minimal courier costs and guaranteed delivery are just some of the things that will be fixed by removing NPC corps and other forms of wardec evasion. Imagine if those horrid collectivist groups had to actively defend their supply lines instead of just effortlessly moving goods through proxies and alts.


this post tells me you've been down in null sec for far too long. really, so the player run economy is the problem now?

forums.  serious business.

Reuben Johnson
Gal-Min Industries
#86 - 2013-01-28 20:51:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Reuben Johnson
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Reuben Johnson wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
...i just find it odd how so many people in a capitalist simulation are determined to engage in monolithic collectivist activities when commodities and services can be purchased from other players who specialise.

I've also have always found that to be so common, yet so odd, in many MMO's myself. But as in RL, the Collectivists have a natural enemy in the Indivisualist. as long as their is one Indivisualist around, the Collective is always threatened.

That doesn't really apply to this dicussion though since there are huge numbers of 'individualists' who play with 1-man player corps, while most of the largest collectivist organizations in the game use alts in NPC corps to ferry alliance supplies, logistics and moongoo around unimpeded.



#79 Posted: 2013.01.28 18:00
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
True, but incentivising collective security, or at least diminishing the mass of incentives pushing people to keep their PvE and PvP chars seperate, is a good start towards that goal.


So you want CCP to promote collectivism, but a discussion on intentions of collectivists in Eve isn't relative?
1 man corps are made by those who play NPC Corps, but want access to a POS (why, I don't know, for reasons I explain earlier, it just isn't viable in the long term imo)
In the end, making us quit NPC to form a slew of 1-man corps isnt what you're going for, that's just a step. Ultimaly what you want is to then attack the one man corp under the battle cry "join us or else"...collectivism at work, progressive style (implementation of collectism through process of incremental elimination of indivisual freedoms).
Reuben Johnson
Gal-Min Industries
#87 - 2013-01-28 20:58:37 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
People moan and whine about having to pay 600m isk to dec goonswarm now, yet paying 600m ISK cost per single freighter attack is now 'totally feasible' disruption operation? Heh.

Minimal courier costs and guaranteed delivery are just some of the things that will be fixed by removing NPC corps and other forms of wardec evasion. Imagine if those horrid collectivist groups had to actively defend their supply lines instead of just effortlessly moving goods through proxies and alts.


You mean like suicide ganking in hi-sec? already common. Hi-sec is already much more dangerous then null/low, so it looks like the the collective is already good at trying to protect their supply lines.
Or do you mean the big blue donut to keep moon goo in the protective hands of a chosen few collectivists...hmm, yes, that would soo bring war..oh wait, it didn't they called it off and only had a spat of a miss jump, whichc may or may not have been a set up.
Yusef Yeasef Yosef
Doomheim
#88 - 2013-01-28 21:13:51 UTC
Diablo Ex wrote:


I know I can hear the trolls and carebears already lining up to trash this idea, but hey this is what happens in GD.

.



Like they are the only ones going after this op. P
Gotta love E-Bravato

Oh, content: OP, not a new idea. Actually quite an unoriginal take on a very unoriginal idea. [Force people to play the way I think they should play] or they can find something else.

Very original.
Captain Death1
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#89 - 2013-01-28 21:25:44 UTC
maybe op should send ccp some money help get them started on this idea after all dont you think you should fund it no way you can lose money right lol (#oron)
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#90 - 2013-01-28 21:34:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Reuben Johnson wrote:
Hi-sec is already much more dangerous then null/low, so it looks like the the collective is already good at trying to protect their supply lines.
Nullsec has more ship losses (50.1%) then all other regions combined despite having only 20% of the active player population, the concept that highsec is more dangerous then any other space, except perhaps wormhole space, is a comforting untruth. Still, you touch on a correct idea - that the supply lines are very, very secure thanks to alts in NPC corps and other tactics to store and transport assets safely. So much so that nullsec can consume the majority of highsec's output with very little effort on their end to secure their unguarded assets against highsec PVPers.
Darvaleth Sigma
Imperial Security Hegemony
#91 - 2013-01-28 21:36:21 UTC
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
isn't main reason for npc corp isk sink....just up it 2x time and some peeps will bail to player controlled farming corp for sure.


Seeing as ~500 bil got destroyed in capitals alone at that last battle, I don't think they'd need to double the taxes for an isk sink...

Give a man a match and you warm him for a day.

Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life!

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#92 - 2013-01-28 21:38:52 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
People moan and whine about having to pay 600m isk to dec goonswarm now, yet paying 600m ISK cost per single freighter attack is now 'totally feasible' disruption operation? Heh.

Minimal courier costs and guaranteed delivery are just some of the things that will be fixed by removing NPC corps and other forms of wardec evasion. Imagine if those horrid collectivist groups had to actively defend their supply lines instead of just effortlessly moving goods through proxies and alts.


this post tells me you've been down in null sec for far too long. really, so the player run economy is the problem now?

How did you get that from my post?
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#93 - 2013-01-28 21:42:37 UTC
This IS no issue with NPC corps...move along.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Reuben Johnson
Gal-Min Industries
#94 - 2013-01-28 21:52:09 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Reuben Johnson wrote:
Hi-sec is already much more dangerous then null/low, so it looks like the the collective is already good at trying to protect their supply lines.
Nullsec has more ship losses (50.1%) then all other regions combined despite having only 20% of the active player population, the concept that highsec is more dangerous then any other space, except perhaps wormhole space, is a comforting untruth. Still, you touch on a correct idea - that the supply lines are very, very secure thanks to alts in NPC corps. So much so that nullsec can consume the majority of highsec's output with very little effort on their end to secure their unguarded assets against highsec PVPers.
Not really, most of the nullsec kills come from hi-seccers wanting to explore null sec for the first time (possible future nullseccers) getting shot in the back by nullers as soon as they enter the first gate into null, the same nullers who complain all day and night that their aren't enough people in null...wonder why they dont come back? hmmm..again, nullseccers shot themselves in the foot, and want CCP to force people to go into null for more gatecamping gun practice. remove the gatecamping tactics on noob explorers and you that 50.1 that you pull seemingly out of no where awfull fast dissapears.
As for player corps using NPC hauling alts, as Ive said, indivisualism is the enemy of collectivism so you must destroy it. A few have seen the glory of being an indivisual and have one foot in the indivisualist door, so you must destroy it before it gorws. The fact they have an NPC corp alt isn't an issue with NPC's, but an issue with Alts. You want NPC alt's to end, you must then have CCP reject their embrace of Alt'ing, not destroy the NPC Corp, because that's where you're problem lies...which isnt a problem, haulers are ganked every day, I don't know where you think hauling is "safe..it's an absurd notion.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#95 - 2013-01-28 21:52:27 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
People moan and whine about having to pay 600m isk to dec goonswarm now, yet paying 600m ISK cost per single freighter attack is now 'totally feasible' disruption operation? Heh.

Minimal courier costs and guaranteed delivery are just some of the things that will be fixed by removing NPC corps and other forms of wardec evasion. Imagine if those horrid collectivist groups had to actively defend their supply lines instead of just effortlessly moving goods through proxies and alts.


this post tells me you've been down in null sec for far too long. really, so the player run economy is the problem now?

How did you get that from my post?


cos you're going on about supply lines which means absolutely nothing outside of sov null. empire is civilised.

http://red-frog.org

you can wardec them though but i understand their cunning dec shield arrangement means it will cost you an immense amount of ISK.

forums.  serious business.

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#96 - 2013-01-28 21:59:15 UTC
Reuben Johnson wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Reuben Johnson wrote:
Hi-sec is already much more dangerous then null/low, so it looks like the the collective is already good at trying to protect their supply lines.
Nullsec has more ship losses (50.1%) then all other regions combined despite having only 20% of the active player population,.
Not really, most of the nullsec kills come from hi-seccers wanting to explore null sec for the first time
hm yes I heard there was a 2700 man fight the other day, must be a lot of hiseccers wanting to explore null sec for the first time at once. it's a good thing you opened your post with this statement btw.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#97 - 2013-01-28 22:03:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Skeln Thargensen wrote:

cos you're going on about supply lines which means absolutely nothing outside of sov null. .
Yes they do.

Quote:
http://red-frog.org

you can wardec them though but i understand their cunning dec shield arrangement means it will cost you an immense amount of ISK.
Smile if you think they use their mains
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#98 - 2013-01-28 22:12:33 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:

cos you're going on about supply lines which means absolutely nothing outside of sov null. .
Yes they do.

Quote:
http://red-frog.org

you can wardec them though but i understand their cunning dec shield arrangement means it will cost you an immense amount of ISK.
Smile if you think they use their mains


it doesn't matter if they do or if they sub contract to alts, the risk has been transferred with the contract. if you blap their goods they get the collateral so no it is not a supply line, it's a courier contract.

you need a supply line in sov space because courier's can't dock.

forums.  serious business.

Aether Serval
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#99 - 2013-01-28 22:15:22 UTC
Diablo Ex wrote:
The simple solution to the High Sec problem of NPC Corps is pretty obvious to me, and implementing this will add content, give greater meaning to character racial choices, and overall improve the Storyline of EvE Online.

Make the NPC Corps an active part of the Faction War system. If you don't want to be an Economical or Political Faction War targetable asset, then you can always form your own corporation. Seriously, only the Training Academys and Schools should be neutral and protected. Everything else should rightfully be either a player owned corp, or a part of the Ruling Faction of their area of High Sec. Honestly, if you don't want to be involved in EvE Online just go find another game....

I know I can hear the trolls and carebears already lining up to trash this idea, but hey this is what happens in GD.

.


So you want to get more players involved in EVE? And your grand plan to drive them out of the NPC corps where there are always hundreds or players online to potentially chat and interact with, and into 1 person corps where they will never notice anyone outside of local?
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#100 - 2013-01-28 22:20:14 UTC
i have to say i like the idea of getting rid of anything but noob npc corps and making a character independent if they are not members of a corp...

that way it takes away the war dec shield as you can now war dec a character...

i would also make standard personal tax rate of 10% that goes as a fee to concord for non corp membership registration fees... the fees are used for stargate maintenance as a pr excuse....

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.