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How is the Omen rebalanced
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#21 - 2013-01-22 17:30:40 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:

I really don't get how many people think its a good ship..

I mean its better than it was but its still gimpy as all ****.


I can see what they were going for with it, but it's got some really terrible weaknesses. Trying to claim that a laser ship is a 'good brawler' without 4 mid slots is pretty ludicrous. That's why Amarr pilots were so stoked when the Navy Geddon came out with 4 mids.

I guess that's the plan for the Navy Omen - better EHP, better cap, 4 mids? I don't suppose it's too much to hope for a freaking optimal bonus...

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#22 - 2013-01-22 17:31:11 UTC
Torrin Vakarian wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
Torrin Vakarian wrote:
Now im quite curious what is kiting? See i dont actually have a pc or internet so i rarely get to play EVE xD i know crazy right. I'm working on getting a job but its hard.

Using your speed and range to stay out of the enemy's effective range and slowly kill him.


Can a Omen sacrifice defense to dish out lots of dps or are amarr ships just not capable of this?


You can shield tank the Omen if you want. It does alright damage.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#23 - 2013-01-22 18:18:34 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Torrin Vakarian wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
Torrin Vakarian wrote:
Now im quite curious what is kiting? See i dont actually have a pc or internet so i rarely get to play EVE xD i know crazy right. I'm working on getting a job but its hard.

Using your speed and range to stay out of the enemy's effective range and slowly kill him.


Can a Omen sacrifice defense to dish out lots of dps or are amarr ships just not capable of this?


You can shield tank the Omen if you want. It does alright damage.

-Liang



Alright damage?. For a t1 cruiser it does freaking awesome damage .

To put it into perspective it does more damage at 20km then a vagabond, more at 25 then a cynabal, twice as much at 28 then a emp using shield cane.

Its also nearly as fast as a vagabond (2130 to 2500), its more agile (6.7 to 7.8 seconds), it has very similar cap (2 sec difference in favor of the vagabond) and from 13 to 35 km it does more dps the onlรถy thing the vaga has to offer is 9k more ehp. It also is a lot cheaper!

At 29km on a pure dps/ehp race the omen would win (if the vagabonds reists were even, which they arent so in reallyitly it would win)!
Kn1v3s 999
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2013-01-22 22:59:12 UTC
Don t know what kind of Omen fit are you talking about.
But even with standard mindflood, powerdiagnostic and/or cap rigs (which will reduce your ehp) cap is terrible, not even closer to a vaga.
You basically will cap out yourself only for shooting if you don't kill fast your target

Paper dps/range and speed are very good but in practice cap and ehp are terrible. Maybe in a gang can work if you use some kind of injector instaed of the point, but for solo it had great limitations imho
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#25 - 2013-01-22 23:54:30 UTC
[Omen, boom]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor I
Large Shield Extender II

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell I


Valkyrie II x3
Hobgoblin II x2

Learn to win in 1min 44.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#26 - 2013-01-23 00:31:39 UTC
Um, that's got what 14k EHP? (Honest question - no EFT with me)

-Liang

Ed: Not that I'm complaining about 14k EHP. I fly ships with less all the time.

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Gitanmaxx
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2013-01-28 18:24:13 UTC
Mizhir wrote:
The Omen is pretty badass at the moment. I am actually starting to crosstrain to amarr because of it. It can be fit as a great kiting ship but it is also a fantastic brawler.

Jester made a good blogpost: http://jestertrek.blogspot.dk/2012/12/fit-of-week-retribution-omen.html

And I have tried to explain the RVB lemmings to fly omen (using the same fit as Jester's) instead of maller:

Quote:

Armor Omen
Despite being an attack cruiser the omen is actually a quite good brawler and is a great ship for armor fleets. "But Miz, isn't the maller a better ship for fleets? It got a nice tank" one of you lemmings might ask me. And for that I have a few answers: The maller can fit a good tank, but it does still suffer from low dps. And the large tank doesn't benefit you when the rest of your fleet has already been cleared. The Omen mix well with other armor t1 cruisers and is faster than the maller. And once you see the potential pain an omen can deliver you will never go back. In order for a Maller to deal the same dps as an Omen it needs 3 heatsinks, which means the tank advantage will be diminishing. And lastly, the Omen doesn't suffer that much from cap problems, so it frees up the mid for something else.

So lets take a look at the fit:


[Omen, 1600 brawler]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Hammerhead II x3
Hobgoblin II x2

Is 1% over on cpu, either use an implant or downgrade the DCU to a meta or a EANM to a ANM.
This is a brawler fit, hence the scram.

487 dps (539 heated) with INMF 6.8 + 3.8 range
527 dps (586 heated) with Conflag 6.8 + 3.8 range (can shoot for about 5 min before capping out)
415 dps (457 heated) with Scorch 20 + 3.8 range

267 m/s, 1557 m/s with MWD (2202 heated)
18 min of cap without MWD, 1min 31s with MWD (both with MF loaded)

36,010EHP (75.1, 67.6, 62.6, 60.1 resist)

If you got logi support it is worth replacing the armor rigs with exp and kin resist rigs.

If your fleet has enough webs, you can replace the web with a small cap booster. It allows you to permarun everything with MWD and Conflag (using both simultaneously will be stupid since the MWD mess with the tracking) and it fixes the cpu problem.

This is a ship that can scale really well with player skills. The instant ammo switch allows you to really benefit from the 3 types of ammo. If your target is far away you can burn them down with scorch until you are in range. With good manual piloting (or if the target is double webbed and you sit still) you can really benefit from the high dps of conflag (you will outdps a standard 1600mm plated thorax). Otherwise just use INMF. Manageing your ammo will allow you to gain near max potential dps from it, but be aware of tracking. It is the biggest drawback and your own orbit can easily break it. If you dont have a cap booster you can get a huge benefit from micro manageing the capacitor.

It seems like a very fun ship and I will definitely try it out once I got the skills for it.

So all our laser lovers. Park our mallers in the back of your hangar and embrace the face meltage of the omen.


Sorry to sidetrack your thread but.....
I'm really having trouble getting these kinds of damage numbers. I do about half that dps at 223 with scorch and I'm only missing a couple 2% skills here and there so it shouldn't be that much of a difference. What am I missing because I notice every dps number anyone posts on here is so wildly higher than what I can reach with the same fit.

I've got:

medium energy: 5
medium pulse spec: 4
rapid fire: 3
surgical strike: 3


I don't see any other skills that will increase my damage and those couple extra points shouldn't equate to double the damage?
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#28 - 2013-01-28 19:23:02 UTC
Gitanmaxx wrote:

rapid fire: 3
surgical strike: 3


That's almost 10% DPS right there. How's the rest of your support skills and cruiser skill look? Or just link us to the char sheet. Also: make sure to update your EFT with an updated API pull. :)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Gitanmaxx
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2013-01-28 20:18:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Gitanmaxx
Liang Nuren wrote:
Gitanmaxx wrote:

rapid fire: 3
surgical strike: 3


That's almost 10% DPS right there. How's the rest of your support skills and cruiser skill look? Or just link us to the char sheet. Also: make sure to update your EFT with an updated API pull. :)

-Liang




Thank you, i appreciate taking a look at it. I've been so confused when i see all the DPS numbers posted by people are so insanely high compared to mine. I don't know what's making such a large difference.

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Gitanmaxx

*edit* in order to not hijack the OPs thread I actually created a thread with my qestions and the skill sheet, unfortunately when I try to past the link to that thread in here it says "post may not contain html." not sure what that means.....
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#30 - 2013-01-28 20:34:41 UTC
Gitanmaxx wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Gitanmaxx wrote:

rapid fire: 3
surgical strike: 3


That's almost 10% DPS right there. How's the rest of your support skills and cruiser skill look? Or just link us to the char sheet. Also: make sure to update your EFT with an updated API pull. :)

-Liang




Thank you, i appreciate taking a look at it. I've been so confused when i see all the DPS numbers posted by people are so insanely high compared to mine. I don't know what's making such a large difference.

http://eveboard.com/pilot/Gitanmaxx

*edit* in order to not hijack the OPs thread I actually created a thread with my qestions and the skill sheet, unfortunately when I try to past the link to that thread in here it says "post may not contain html." not sure what that means.....


The numbers used when comparing fits are often with all skills at 5, to make it easier to compare the fits.

โค๏ธ๏ธ๐Ÿ’›๐Ÿ’š๐Ÿ’™๐Ÿ’œ
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#31 - 2013-01-28 20:52:49 UTC
So, here's some particular pain points:
- Combat Drone Op 3 (10% drone damage)
- Drone Int 4 (20% drone damage)
- Minmatar Drone Spec 0 (This is kinda a big deal when everyone's rocking Warriors)
- Cruiser 4 (~5% DPS)
- Gunnery skills (~9% DPS)

It all adds up. Most fit comparisons are done at All Skills 5, but as you've discovered it's always a good idea to compare fits at your skill level. The Maller might actually be a better choice for you because it doesn't rely so much on drone DPS.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Gitanmaxx
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2013-01-28 22:49:11 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
So, here's some particular pain points:
- Combat Drone Op 3 (10% drone damage)
- Drone Int 4 (20% drone damage)
- Minmatar Drone Spec 0 (This is kinda a big deal when everyone's rocking Warriors)
- Cruiser 4 (~5% DPS)
- Gunnery skills (~9% DPS)

It all adds up. Most fit comparisons are done at All Skills 5, but as you've discovered it's always a good idea to compare fits at your skill level. The Maller might actually be a better choice for you because it doesn't rely so much on drone DPS.

-Liang


Thank you much for taking your time to help me with that. I threw those all in my training plan.

I think I'll look at a maller as well, always liked the look of that ship anyway.
The VC's
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2013-01-29 07:32:37 UTC
Moonasha wrote:
People always tell me it's a 'kite ship', which I think is silly since Amarr is supposed to have armor plates, drones, neuts, and TD in their design philosophy. But if that were the case, why doesn't it have a speed bonus or something?


Abundant low slots.

Tank.gank.mobility

Every other race, pick one.
Amarr, pick two.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#34 - 2013-01-29 12:42:21 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Omen and maller are still pretty ****.


Sorry.


I'll assume the word that got deleted was indicating they are bad.

They are not. And if you think so, YOU are bad.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#35 - 2013-01-29 12:43:21 UTC
The VC's wrote:
Moonasha wrote:
People always tell me it's a 'kite ship', which I think is silly since Amarr is supposed to have armor plates, drones, neuts, and TD in their design philosophy. But if that were the case, why doesn't it have a speed bonus or something?


Abundant low slots.

Tank.gank.mobility

Every other race, pick one.
Amarr, pick two.


I'd like to point out that the proteus has 2 of the first 2. and only 1 of the third. Pick 1? PICK 5 BUT STILL COMPLAIN ABOUT THE HURRICANE LAWLAWLAL.
The VC's
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2013-01-29 13:01:51 UTC
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