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ETA on Missile Changes Part 2

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Jaiimez Skor
The Infamous.
#1 - 2013-01-27 01:32:39 UTC
This is just more of a query, as of my understanding part 2 of the missile changes (the changes to tracking computers/disruptors ect to affect missiles) was already done, but had been held off being introduced in Retribution to allow time for the missile changes that where introduced to settle in. So this is now nearly 2 months on, but there is no announcement as to when the remaining changes are planned to be introduced, no mention of it being seen in Retribution 1.1, So what is happening, is 2 months not enough time for them to settle in, or are they planned for a release soon, or are we likely not to see them until summer?

P.S I want to be able to tracking disrupt missile boats! DAMNIT!
androch
LitlCorp
#2 - 2013-01-27 02:00:40 UTC
someone needs to calm the **** down..
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#3 - 2013-01-27 03:27:54 UTC
Jaiimez Skor wrote:
This is just more of a query, as of my understanding part 2 of the missile changes (the changes to tracking computers/disruptors ect to affect missiles) was already done, but had been held off being introduced in Retribution to allow time for the missile changes that where introduced to settle in. So this is now nearly 2 months on, but there is no announcement as to when the remaining changes are planned to be introduced, no mention of it being seen in Retribution 1.1, So what is happening, is 2 months not enough time for them to settle in, or are they planned for a release soon, or are we likely not to see them until summer?

P.S I want to be able to tracking disrupt missile boats! DAMNIT!


They've been toying with the implementation a lot longer than 2 months... Last summer there were test versions on Sisi...

We have not heard anything at this time, and there is fear it will be a little overpowered...
Jaiimez Skor
The Infamous.
#4 - 2013-01-27 04:58:42 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Jaiimez Skor wrote:
This is just more of a query, as of my understanding part 2 of the missile changes (the changes to tracking computers/disruptors ect to affect missiles) was already done, but had been held off being introduced in Retribution to allow time for the missile changes that where introduced to settle in. So this is now nearly 2 months on, but there is no announcement as to when the remaining changes are planned to be introduced, no mention of it being seen in Retribution 1.1, So what is happening, is 2 months not enough time for them to settle in, or are they planned for a release soon, or are we likely not to see them until summer?

P.S I want to be able to tracking disrupt missile boats! DAMNIT!


They've been toying with the implementation a lot longer than 2 months... Last summer there were test versions on Sisi...

We have not heard anything at this time, and there is fear it will be a little overpowered...


Yeah I get that, that's why they wanted to wait until the new missile changes where live so they could then use statistics to work out what was a fair sort of number to have the modules do. I was just wondering if those have been decided yet.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#5 - 2013-01-27 05:08:09 UTC
Tracking disruptors should not affect missiles. There can be a new module that has a similar effect, but only works on missiles and not guns though. A single module that affects both will be stupid OP and become mandatory on all ships.
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#6 - 2013-01-27 11:29:55 UTC
Paikis wrote:
Tracking disruptors should not affect missiles. There can be a new module that has a similar effect, but only works on missiles and not guns though. A single module that affects both will be stupid OP and become mandatory on all ships.


there is already a missile-tracking-disruptor. it's called defender.
sadly there broken. But i'd rather have fixed defenders then a new allmighty tracking disruptor which would be the new ecm.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-01-27 12:17:19 UTC
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:
Paikis wrote:
Tracking disruptors should not affect missiles. There can be a new module that has a similar effect, but only works on missiles and not guns though. A single module that affects both will be stupid OP and become mandatory on all ships.


there is already a missile-tracking-disruptor. it's called defender.
sadly there broken. But i'd rather have fixed defenders then a new allmighty tracking disruptor which would be the new ecm.


Defenders are a nice idea in theory, but they'd need to be a mid slot utility to work. Nobody will use them, when they could get more damage instead in the same launcher.
Ember Saint
Time-Lost Proto-Drake
#8 - 2013-01-27 12:36:38 UTC
so make it utility high (i.e non-launcher slot), like a charge-based chaff/flare thing? maybe asb-ish charge based long reload?
possibly better than the makeshift smartbombs that are occasionally used for that now

but chances for a 'missile td' are there as well, based on a script having it affect either missile velocity or explosion radius(?)
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#9 - 2013-01-27 13:10:06 UTC
I am happy for tracking disruptors to work against missiles so long as a mod (not rig) is introduced to increase range and accuracy of missiles. If they are planning to make missiles similar in effectiveness to the other weapons, then they need to get similar benefits.

Currently you can tracking disrupt turrets, but there are mods you can use to counter-act that effect. If tracking disruption works against missiles, they will have no such counter.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#10 - 2013-01-27 13:26:38 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
I am happy for tracking disruptors to work against missiles so long as a mod (not rig) is introduced to increase range and accuracy of missiles. If they are planning to make missiles similar in effectiveness to the other weapons, then they need to get similar benefits.

Currently you can tracking disrupt turrets, but there are mods you can use to counter-act that effect. If tracking disruption works against missiles, they will have no such counter.

The plan was for TE's and TC's to fill that role. Would be nice to have the option to get some more range on HAMs

Friends
Jaiimez Skor
The Infamous.
#11 - 2013-01-27 18:27:13 UTC
Yes as far as I'm aware the plan is also to have TE's/TC's affect missiles too, it's not just disruption, it's the entire bundle, I am unsure how I feel about having separate modules while I do see the point for it, it would make tracking disruptor's still not very viable on most ships, personally I just want the changes so my pilgrim becomes ridiculously strong, and I'd be willing to give up 2 modules slots have 1 turret disruptor and 1 missile disruptor, but it'd be nice to have just 1 module, that maybe has 4 scripts, the 2 turrets ones, and 2 new missile ones. Maybe a range script and an explosion velocity script, would be the 2 I think would match up to similar effects as the turrets.
Janna Windforce
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-01-28 07:05:55 UTC
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Defenders are a nice idea in theory, but they'd need to be a mid slot utility to work. Nobody will use them, when they could get more damage instead in the same launcher.


Well if you have only 1 launcher slot, the added dmg (+ another range to watch) is not that great, I'd rather have specialized rapid firing defender launcher.
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#13 - 2013-01-28 07:14:23 UTC
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:
Paikis wrote:
Tracking disruptors should not affect missiles. There can be a new module that has a similar effect, but only works on missiles and not guns though. A single module that affects both will be stupid OP and become mandatory on all ships.


there is already a missile-tracking-disruptor. it's called defender.
sadly there broken. But i'd rather have fixed defenders then a new allmighty tracking disruptor which would be the new ecm.


Defenders are a nice idea in theory, but they'd need to be a mid slot utility to work. Nobody will use them, when they could get more damage instead in the same launcher.


If they made it so defenders intercepted all none fleet missiles, that would be awesome too. Then you could realistically have one guy with all his missiles as defenders spamming it to protect the fleet.
Jaiimez Skor
The Infamous.
#14 - 2013-01-28 08:53:53 UTC
Sean Parisi wrote:
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:
Paikis wrote:
Tracking disruptors should not affect missiles. There can be a new module that has a similar effect, but only works on missiles and not guns though. A single module that affects both will be stupid OP and become mandatory on all ships.


there is already a missile-tracking-disruptor. it's called defender.
sadly there broken. But i'd rather have fixed defenders then a new allmighty tracking disruptor which would be the new ecm.


Defenders are a nice idea in theory, but they'd need to be a mid slot utility to work. Nobody will use them, when they could get more damage instead in the same launcher.


If they made it so defenders intercepted all none fleet missiles, that would be awesome too. Then you could realistically have one guy with all his missiles as defenders spamming it to protect the fleet.


I personally have never seen a major fleet that has used defenders, firewalls are more common.
Dzajic
#15 - 2013-01-28 10:18:50 UTC
Unbonused TDs are already a "must fit" module with frigs with sufficient mids, taking priority over any real tank. Making TDs affect missiles would only make it a even more mandatory module. Better to just cut everyone's tracking and optimal and cut 1 or 2 midslots of every ship, same effect really.


In case you missed it, I believe making TDs affect missiles would make them stupidly broken and a mandatory fit module.
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#16 - 2013-01-28 11:47:13 UTC
Janna Windforce wrote:
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Defenders are a nice idea in theory, but they'd need to be a mid slot utility to work. Nobody will use them, when they could get more damage instead in the same launcher.


Well if you have only 1 launcher slot, the added dmg (+ another range to watch) is not that great, I'd rather have specialized rapid firing defender launcher.

A rapid light or a rocket launcher should do the trick.

Friends
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-01-28 14:37:56 UTC
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
I am happy for tracking disruptors to work against missiles so long as a mod (not rig) is introduced to increase range and accuracy of missiles. If they are planning to make missiles similar in effectiveness to the other weapons, then they need to get similar benefits.

Currently you can tracking disrupt turrets, but there are mods you can use to counter-act that effect. If tracking disruption works against missiles, they will have no such counter.

The plan was for TE's and TC's to fill that role. Would be nice to have the option to get some more range on HAMs


HAMS are already massively over-ranged as they are they need their range nerfing especially when TE/TC's work on them.

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#18 - 2013-01-28 15:18:09 UTC
Jonas Sukarala wrote:
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
I am happy for tracking disruptors to work against missiles so long as a mod (not rig) is introduced to increase range and accuracy of missiles. If they are planning to make missiles similar in effectiveness to the other weapons, then they need to get similar benefits.

Currently you can tracking disrupt turrets, but there are mods you can use to counter-act that effect. If tracking disruption works against missiles, they will have no such counter.

The plan was for TE's and TC's to fill that role. Would be nice to have the option to get some more range on HAMs


HAMS are already massively over-ranged as they are they need their range nerfing especially when TE/TC's work on them.

I really don't follow or understand your reassoning.

HAM II's w/ Rage = 16.9km (before deducting range differences incured from targets velocity and trajectory)
HAM II's w/ Javelin = 30.4km (before deducting range differences incured from targets velocity and trajectory)

Heavy Pulse Laser II's w/ Conflageration M = 7.5km optimal + 5km falloff (+5km extended falloff)
Lowest unbonused range is 17.5km (which is about the same as HAMs)
Heavy Pulse Laser II's w/ Scorch M = 23km optimal + 5km falloff (+5km extended falloff)
Highest unbonused range is 33km (which is about the same as HAMs)

425mm AC II's w/ Hail M = 1.5km optimal with 12km falloff (+12km extended falloff)
Lowest unbonused range is 25.5km (which is much more than HAMs)
425mm AC II's w/ Barrage M = 3km optimal with 18km falloff (+12km extended falloff)
Highest unbonused range is 39km (which is much more than HAMs)

Even if you only look at the primary falloff range, your still matching the effective range of Hams. This only really falls down when you get to Blasters, which are useless past about 4km. But thats a problem with hybrids. (One of many.)

Friends
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-01-28 15:20:52 UTC
What are you even talking about? ... unbonused ranges?

'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium Nerf missile range into place where is the TD missile change?  ..projectiles should use capacitor. ABC's should be T2 HABC and nerf web strength its still too high

Jaiimez Skor
The Infamous.
#20 - 2013-01-28 18:29:02 UTC
Dzajic wrote:
Unbonused TDs are already a "must fit" module with frigs with sufficient mids, taking priority over any real tank. Making TDs affect missiles would only make it a even more mandatory module. Better to just cut everyone's tracking and optimal and cut 1 or 2 midslots of every ship, same effect really.


In case you missed it, I believe making TDs affect missiles would make them stupidly broken and a mandatory fit module.


The problem is that anything but a frigate they're mostly considered a waste of a mid slot. The reason they're so powerful on frigates is because of the size of a frigate missiles are very ineffective still on them, their only real weakness is turrets, at least that's how I see it. I think think it'll also help bring solo back into a do-able thing, I mean it will never be great, but will make things better, my biggest concern with going out solo in something like a curse/pilgrim is missile boats, which is why i'm looking forward to these changes.
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