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REJOICE Citizens: War between HBC and CFC averted PAX-NULLIA!!

First post
Author
Theodoric Darkwind
Enlightened Industries
Goonswarm Federation
#241 - 2013-01-25 22:27:12 UTC
This says more about the sov mechanics than anything.

We like shooting spaceships, not structures.

We can still shoot goons as much as we want.

Nobodoy "likes" sov warfare in its current state
Dave Stark
#242 - 2013-01-25 22:33:49 UTC
Theodoric Darkwind wrote:
Nobodoy "likes" sov warfare in its current state


inb4 that didn't stop test invading delve, etc.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
It Burns When I'm PvPing
#243 - 2013-01-25 23:27:34 UTC
What changes to sov mechanics will make the null sec alliance leaders fight?

The only changes I hear from them is "farms and fields" which sounds like making null sec more of a carebear grazing land.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#244 - 2013-01-25 23:38:51 UTC
Cearain wrote:
What changes to sov mechanics will make the null sec alliance leaders fight?

The only changes I hear from them is "farms and fields" which sounds like making null sec more of a carebear grazing land.



There are 2 points to adding to the "carebear grazing land" of nullsec;

(1) To promote bottom up alliance income, so that nullsec groups have to undock and use there space rather than rely on moons while the line members goof off on highsec alts.

(2) To promote undocking and doing stuff in space to an extant that roaming gangs can not only find targets, but that (going back to point 1) doing so will financially hurt a nullsec organization, giving some value to hit and run guerrilla tactics.
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#245 - 2013-01-25 23:42:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Bane Necran
Theodoric Darkwind wrote:
We like shooting spaceships, not structures.


Then why do you blue everyone instead of shooting their spaceships? No one is forcing you to shoot their structures if you don't want to.

Or was this desire to shoot spaceships something which suddenly happened a couple days ago, when you 'reset' a group which was previously blue to you? I give it a week, month max, until you get bored of shooting ships and blue eachother again. P

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#246 - 2013-01-25 23:49:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
the secret goal of 'farms and fields' is

- get nullsec players doing their pve in null instead of highsec
- so that we can raze each others' fields and burn down their farms and wreck their ability to supply themselves and engender real buttmad feelings within rival 0.0 alliances

I disagree with the term 'farms and fields' because the phrase is distinctly non-industrial, and I believe the solution lies within fixing POSs and boosting null industry, not 'farming', but whatever.

some of the highseccer extremists think its all a conspiracy to get them specifically to roll down in their npc corp mining toon around catch so we can all highfive each other on some mackinaw kill. really though, you can stay in highsec - you aren't wanted. your input isn't needed
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#247 - 2013-01-25 23:51:56 UTC
Cearain wrote:
What changes to sov mechanics will make the null sec alliance leaders fight?


Ones that don't lead to their rank and file members spending every day shooting tens of millions of hitpoints in stationary structures, over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

Quote:
The only changes I hear from them is "farms and fields" which sounds like making null sec more of a carebear grazing land.

And the point of 'farms and fields' is that they, and/or the alliance members using them, become targets for hostiles to catch and kill, which incentivises roaming gangs and defence gangs to counter them. Rather than today, where the only way to weaken or annoy or provoke a response from a hostile power is shooting tens of millions of hitpoints in their stationary structures, over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#248 - 2013-01-25 23:56:25 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
get nullsec players doing their pve in null instead of highsec


0.0 has already been made more profitable than hisec by several magnitudes when people claimed it would solve every problem, and by scurrying to safety whenever a stranger enters local you're even safer there than hisec. Everyone knows this.

CCP can even check the numbers if they have to, and see how many people are turning their nose up at 0.0 income and instead running L4s on an alt. To think you can fool them again is ridiculous.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#249 - 2013-01-25 23:59:25 UTC
what's it like when you speculate blindly on nullsec gameplay without having dipped a toe outside of the safety of highsec

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#250 - 2013-01-26 00:02:10 UTC
Andski wrote:
what's it like when you speculate blindly on nullsec gameplay without having dipped a toe outside of the safety of highsec


You put the ass in assume.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi

Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#251 - 2013-01-26 00:12:16 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
Andski wrote:
what's it like when you speculate blindly on nullsec gameplay without having dipped a toe outside of the safety of highsec


You put the ass in assume.



So do you.

There are only a handful of anomalies that are a sure-thing better than highsec PvE income. Most everything else, especially anything that involves getting items that must be sold for isk, adds an annoying layer of nullsec logistics. 23 jumps in a blockade runner to get those OSE's and deadspace mods to Jita kills your isk/hr.

If general nullsec income were so great, you wouldn't see so many complaints over true-sec, the anomaly nerf, bad industrial services, and massive moongoo wealth in the hands of the few.
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
#252 - 2013-01-26 00:18:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Bane Necran
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
There are only a handful of anomalies that are a sure-thing better than highsec PvE income.


The much higher payouts you can get in 0.0 more than balances that out.

But maybe try mining. Better isk/hour gathering ABC ore than there is doing L4s.

Always hearing about how hisec L4s are so very easy and boring, from 0.0 players, so mining should be no different.

"In the void is virtue, and no evil. Wisdom has existence, principle has existence, the Way has existence, spirit is nothingness." ~Miyamoto Musashi

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#253 - 2013-01-26 00:25:50 UTC
Oh boy someone needs to sit Necran down and explain to him what 'opportunity cost' is
Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#254 - 2013-01-26 01:21:36 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Oh boy someone needs to sit Necran down and explain to him what 'opportunity cost' is

It's something that's high enough I wouldn't bother spending the time to try such a feat.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Steph Wing
No Dukks Given
#255 - 2013-01-26 01:58:17 UTC
The Mittani has secured peace for our time!

http://onebit.us/x/i/6xZeuuPG3j.png
Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#256 - 2013-01-26 03:15:55 UTC
Steph Wing wrote:
The Mittani has secured peace for our time!

http://onebit.us/x/i/6xZeuuPG3j.png

This will end well...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Nylith Empyreal
Blood Marauders
#257 - 2013-01-26 03:17:40 UTC
Ah business as usual. Should take more rl examples go turn over a 3rd world country for sport or **** off your own people and crush rebellions.

Who's the more foolish the fool or the fool who replies to him?

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#258 - 2013-01-26 04:41:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Bane Necran wrote:
But maybe try mining. Better isk/hour gathering ABC ore than there is doing L4s.


mining arkanor is less than 60M/hour

and that's with a hulk with rorqual bonuses, after probing down a grav site and it assumes you're mining arkanor continuously

meanwhile, mining crokite and bistot is less profitable than mining scordite in 0.9, and a lot more effort

pretty sure L4s pay more than that

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#259 - 2013-01-26 04:49:52 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Theodoric Darkwind wrote:
Nobodoy "likes" sov warfare in its current state


inb4 that didn't stop test invading delve, etc.

Honestly, I think that was sort of "our" fault because once Soco escalated to -A-'s "help" (haha), then HBC escalted to CFC help and suddenly all there was to shoot were structures.

And we all know what happens then, Boat goes on a freeding frenzy, so so speak and the rest is history as tons of sov got bulldozed before someone said "ok enough, we don't like shooting structures even if you do"

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#260 - 2013-01-26 05:17:51 UTC
My vision of a better sov system is to move away from structure bashing and more to small-large scale pve/pvp.

The first thing i would do is make sov based on a slide not on an absolute number.

The second thing i would do is rework annoms into group pve with enhanced AI like incursions.

To gain Sov you as a corp or alliance will have to complete various annoms and clear them of rats to maintain sov...

The annoms would have restrictions on amount of ships and size restrictions that would scale from 5 cruisers on the small level all the way to unlimited when you get to the largest annom which has the tcu in it but you dont shoot the tcu you have to kill the npc (who are in capital ships now) and fight the defending fleet...

As an added bonus on the higher tier annoms there would be a chance based system that would drop a tech II BPC of a meta 2-4 mod.

Note. Tech II meta 2-4 mods can only be made in 0.0 and only in a pos or outpost that is in a owned system.

pretty much this would take sov away from structure grind to all levels of pvp/pve that is group based and dynamic.

i would also add more ihub upgrades to make 0.0 industry worth the effort and risk.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.