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Extreme NPC targeting range
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Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-01-25 14:55:09 UTC

I am a little peeved that the NPC targeting range far exceeds the range normal for the hulls.

Whenever I am at a gate or an exploration site and I find myself targeted by one of the rats, even frig size, I find it next to impossible to burn out of range so I can cloak up because of the extreme targeting range assigned to NPCs.

I cannot imagine any decent reason why rats should be able to target at ranges exceeding 100k. I suspect it has something to do with poorly implemented A.I.

Why would I want to cloak up there, you ask? To get the jump on another player.
(I live in low sec, which is actually great, contrary to popular belief).

Please chime in if you agree.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#2 - 2013-01-25 14:59:37 UTC
They get called 'rats.' They die like rats, in vast numbers. NPCs needs some love... Even if it's only a chance to troll your cloak.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Merouk Baas
#3 - 2013-01-25 15:15:00 UTC
Shrug, MWD to off the edge of the grid, cloak up, come back into the grid cloaked, and slowboat it back into range.
Xenuria
#4 - 2013-01-25 15:17:50 UTC
For my CSM 8 platform I will be taking a close look at risk vs reward. The majority of PVE encounters are horribly outdated in some way and the rats themselves often so overpowered that some modules and skills are useless to the player character.

CSM 12 Candidate
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
#5 - 2013-01-25 15:19:55 UTC
i would honestly prefer less, but more powerfull Rats with slightly higher rewards each to compensate for the reduction in numbers.
Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-01-25 16:04:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Moneta Curran
Merouk Baas wrote:
Shrug, MWD to off the edge of the grid, cloak up, come back into the grid cloaked, and slowboat it back into range.


That's a workaround, not a solution.

A terrible workaround at that, because it means wasting a potential window of opportunity to be in the right place at the right time.

It means that you will be exposed to dscan for your entire way out of grid.. which amounts to a 300km+ burn.

Let's say you do an average 1000m/s out, that means you will be visible for 5 minutes.
Long enough for even the most naive of carebears to ping dscan at least once.

Just slowboat back, you say? Of course, I'll be back in a position to strike, in half an hour.

Why complain, indeed.
Spurty
#7 - 2013-01-25 16:20:07 UTC
I agree

If I have a cloak fitted to my ship, nothing must ever be allowed to target me.

CCP should break the game until it works how I want it to work.

Also, posting in a 'Recons targetting range is x2 too far' thread (but OP doesn't know that yet).

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-01-25 16:23:57 UTC
Spurty wrote:
I agree

If I have a cloak fitted to my ship, nothing must ever be allowed to target me.

CCP should break the game until it works how I want it to work.

Also, posting in a 'Recons targetting range is x2 too far' thread (but OP doesn't know that yet).



Congratulations, you've just trumped Xenuria in shitposting.
Merouk Baas
#9 - 2013-01-25 16:24:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Merouk Baas
Hey, don't blame me. I'm not the one choosing NOT to warp around cloaked in one of the MANY ships that can do so.

You're choosing a cloak that CCP specifically coded that way, and are trying to use it in a very uncommon situation, and then making an OMG big deal about it. My response was along the lines of "well, if you want to stick to your setup THAT much, here you go."

I don't really care. Everything is working as intended.
Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-01-25 16:29:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Moneta Curran
Merouk Baas wrote:
Hey, don't blame me. I'm not the one choosing NOT to warp around cloaked in one of the MANY ships that can do so.

You're choosing a cloak that CCP specifically coded that way, and are trying to use it in a very uncommon situation, and then making an OMG big deal about it. My response was along the lines of "well, if you want to stick to your setup THAT much, here you go."

I don't really care. Everything is working as intended.


It obviously is a very uncommon situation for you. This happens when you warp at 70km of something cloaked and still somehow hit an asteroid, structure or whatever collidable object, are decloacked and consequently targeted.

The fact that you can issue a warp at X km command and are still put on a trajectory hitting something in that site is another annoying matter altogether, however.

It's indeed perfectly viable to just hang out there in plain sight because some rat targets you from 100km away and hope everyone will pretend you are not there.

Why post if you don't care?
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
#11 - 2013-01-25 16:58:06 UTC
Merouk Baas wrote:
Hey, don't blame me. I'm not the one choosing NOT to warp around cloaked in one of the MANY ships that can do so.

You're choosing a cloak that CCP specifically coded that way, and are trying to use it in a very uncommon situation, and then making an OMG big deal about it. My response was along the lines of "well, if you want to stick to your setup THAT much, here you go."

I don't really care. Everything is working as intended.



All... cloaks... are coded that way. His point is that rats have outrageous target ranges and thus affect all cloaks, and while you can " warp around cloaked in one of the MANY ships that can do so", it's irrelevant. In fact, everything you said is irrelevant...

There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency.
Flakey Foont
#12 - 2013-01-25 17:17:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Flakey Foont
Waah the computer is cheating! Make it easier!
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#13 - 2013-01-25 17:46:40 UTC
Moneta Curran wrote:
Merouk Baas wrote:
Hey, don't blame me. I'm not the one choosing NOT to warp around cloaked in one of the MANY ships that can do so.

You're choosing a cloak that CCP specifically coded that way, and are trying to use it in a very uncommon situation, and then making an OMG big deal about it. My response was along the lines of "well, if you want to stick to your setup THAT much, here you go."

I don't really care. Everything is working as intended.


It obviously is a very uncommon situation for you. This happens when you warp at 70km of something cloaked and still somehow hit an asteroid, structure or whatever collidable object, are decloacked and consequently targeted.

So drop a bookmark, warp out, warp back at +10K. Problem solved.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-01-25 17:50:08 UTC
Flakey Foont wrote:
Waah the computer is cheating! Make it easier!


To some extend, you get the point.

It needn't be easier though. I am not asking for warp path optimization, some fancy coding that will actually place you where you ought to be when you land instead of just putting you at X km of the center of the site. So I am not decloaked ever or something.

I don't see why NPCs need to be able to target from way, way farther out than players in comparable hulls, as this ruins our ability to recloak at a fair range.

Of course, you never have this problem because you probably don't solo pvp anyway.
Xinivrae
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-01-25 17:54:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Xinivrae
Personally I feel the OP has a valid complaint. I have been targeted by rats the next asteroid field over from the one I was at in 0.0. Now rats are never dangerous, ever, but their targeting is seriously borked, and needs looking in to.
Sir Diablos
Requiem Knowledge
#16 - 2013-01-25 17:57:49 UTC
Flakey Foont wrote:
Waah the computer is cheating! Make it easier!


How deliciously ironic.

I agree with the OP though, getting targeted by a Rifter or Kestrel rat at 60+ kilometers is pretty ridiculous in terms of continuity. But then again, continuity has never been CCP's strong suit.

I sometimes have to wonder when the harshness of space was replaced with the soft foamy feel of a theme park.
Merouk Baas
#17 - 2013-01-25 18:04:56 UTC
Moneta Curran wrote:
I don't see why NPCs need to be able to target from way, way farther out than players in comparable hulls...


To reduce server load. Rats don't "see" like we do, the AI just has the list of everything in the grid and makes combat and pathing decisions based on that one list. Rat can't even move without targetting you first. CCP can change it so the AI "focuses" on you, moves closer, THEN targets you, but that's another change to the NPC AI and they just finished the last one, to huge complaints from a few players.

Actually, you know what, if you really want this change to happen for you, think of a theme for the next expansion that they could implement this change under, and suggest it to them. They're looking for themes. Maybe they can lump together modular POSes, "fix sov!," and reduce NPC targetting range as part of an epic theme that does everything, epically.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2013-01-25 18:29:11 UTC
Merouk Baas wrote:
Moneta Curran wrote:
I don't see why NPCs need to be able to target from way, way farther out than players in comparable hulls...


To reduce server load. Rats don't "see" like we do, the AI just has the list of everything in the grid and makes combat and pathing decisions based on that one list. Rat can't even move without targetting you first. CCP can change it so the AI "focuses" on you, moves closer, THEN targets you, but that's another change to the NPC AI and they just finished the last one, to huge complaints from a few players.

Actually, you know what, if you really want this change to happen for you, think of a theme for the next expansion that they could implement this change under, and suggest it to them. They're looking for themes. Maybe they can lump together modular POSes, "fix sov!," and reduce NPC targetting range as part of an epic theme that does everything, epically.


Eve Online: Legen - think of a cow - dary!

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Noriko Satomi
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-01-25 19:35:15 UTC
Merouk Baas wrote:
Moneta Curran wrote:
I don't see why NPCs need to be able to target from way, way farther out than players in comparable hulls...


To reduce server load. Rats don't "see" like we do, the AI just has the list of everything in the grid and makes combat and pathing decisions based on that one list. Rat can't even move without targetting you first. CCP can change it so the AI "focuses" on you, moves closer, THEN targets you, but that's another change to the NPC AI and they just finished the last one, to huge complaints from a few players.

Actually, you know what, if you really want this change to happen for you, think of a theme for the next expansion that they could implement this change under, and suggest it to them. They're looking for themes. Maybe they can lump together modular POSes, "fix sov!," and reduce NPC targetting range as part of an epic theme that does everything, epically.

I don't think the fix is as simple as "reduce NPC targeting range." Rather, make the rats follow the same rules. I realize the lore says that there's Concord magic that interferes or alters Capsuleer interaction with non-capsuleers. This would, however, mean that there are sensors and ships capable of target lock at 300km. Were that the case, capsuleers ought to be able to use this on each other.

I know, lore... lol. But in a fictional universe, the fiction matters doggone-it.
Spurty
#20 - 2013-01-26 12:29:45 UTC
silens vesica wrote:
Moneta Curran wrote:
Merouk Baas wrote:
Hey, don't blame me. I'm not the one choosing NOT to warp around cloaked in one of the MANY ships that can do so.

You're choosing a cloak that CCP specifically coded that way, and are trying to use it in a very uncommon situation, and then making an OMG big deal about it. My response was along the lines of "well, if you want to stick to your setup THAT much, here you go."

I don't really care. Everything is working as intended.


It obviously is a very uncommon situation for you. This happens when you warp at 70km of something cloaked and still somehow hit an asteroid, structure or whatever collidable object, are decloacked and consequently targeted.

So drop a bookmark, warp out, warp back at +10K. Problem solved.


It's very clear he can't do this because it requires thinking. Breaking game or nothing for this chap.

Ship poasting all day to ship ideas (there is logic to when bad posts are made. It's replies to awful posts)

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
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