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CCP: New players should have guidance
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Rambunctious
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-01-24 20:40:02 UTC
Catalyst XI wrote:
There are two types of eve players

Those who learn from experience.

and those who Learn from other people.

I went solo into lowsec 2 weeks into my eve career. I died a lot. got a few kills here and there. But the main thing is each time i fought somebody, if i died or not i still gained some sort of experience, for example learning to pulse mwd when orbiting after running out of cap, ect ect. each time i died i would dissect the fight in my head and think about what i did wrong and what my opponent did right.

Now some may say somebody could have told me those things, but i say to them, when your dad/mom/ whoever taught you to ride a bike for the first time did they spend anytime at all explaining how to turn the pedals, how maneuver with the steering wheel ect.? no ofc they didn't, they just sat you on the bike and let you figure it out. And the result? riding a bike becomes second nature becasue you figured it out yourself.

Pvp in eve is the same way. And the Hard way is still the best way, some people just cant handle that, usually becasue they dont want to dedicate that much time to it.

also im not saying i never learned anything from others, when i joined rvb for example, i learned a great deal from watching and fighting alongside others, but i never had anybody explicitly mentor me.
I always rather fight, then talk about how to fight.

some people are just so risk averse that they dont see the value in losing a fight, and are blinded by the financial setbacks of losing a ship.


Maybe it's just my background and my perserverence failed until I joined up with RvB. You're right with the risk adverse. After doing missions for so long I would even think of losing a frigate as a setback to buying my next nice shiny battleship. RvB taught me to lose a ship is to gain experience. Only then did I take the time out to dissect the fleet battles and what I could have done better. Before I was too blinded by the loss of my ship. I just believe that it shortens the time learning by doing it and having a 3rd person view on what you did wrong and how you could do it better.
KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
#22 - 2013-01-24 20:54:06 UTC
Rambunctious wrote:
...tried and tried and failed to get into this game

...the learning curve is just too great.

...it got boring

...and never figured out what went wrong

...Even after reading tons of things about pvp I could not figure the mechanics and left for a year.

...got bored ratting in null

...I was frustrated with the game and didn't care about the game anymore.

...I decided I don't care about missions, rats or nullsec.

...I still wasn't figuring it out and was getting frustrated again.

I've heard of people quitting right after the tutorial because they have no idea what to do

And finally...
Rambunctious wrote:
I finally came to the realization of what went wrong.


I feel like the OP answered his own question.

KB

Dum Spiro Spero
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#23 - 2013-01-24 21:03:08 UTC
Anslo wrote:
What would be interesting would be COSMOS Agents who teach these things and who dispatch NPC ships to guide you through them. It could be a psuedo mission and an extension of the first training/newbie intro.


Funny, when I read "interesting" as "incredibly fail" your post makes sense. People are the answer, not NPCs. This is a multiplayer game and the best advice the tutorial can give a new player is to get into a player corp ASAP. There's also the help channel, the forum, google and even local.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Nico delPluto
League of Darkness
#24 - 2013-01-24 21:06:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Nico delPluto
.
Skorpynekomimi
#25 - 2013-01-24 21:39:08 UTC
Yes. Yes yes yes. I ended up pretty much lost and confused after finishing the tutorial missions, with no idea what to do or where to go other than SoE missions, until I joined up with an RL friend and his corp.

Since there isn't an official way of doing it in-game, why hasn't anyone set up an unofficial way of matching newbies with people willing to help?

Economic PVP
KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
#26 - 2013-01-24 21:44:17 UTC  |  Edited by: KaarBaak
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
Yes. Yes yes yes. I ended up pretty much lost and confused after finishing the tutorial missions, with no idea what to do or where to go other than SoE missions, until I joined up with an RL friend and his corp.

Since there isn't an official way of doing it in-game, why hasn't anyone set up an unofficial way of matching newbies with people willing to help?



If only there was a forum for EvE players to find corps and corps to find players?

KB

Dum Spiro Spero
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#27 - 2013-01-24 21:50:39 UTC
KaarBaak wrote:
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
Yes. Yes yes yes. I ended up pretty much lost and confused after finishing the tutorial missions, with no idea what to do or where to go other than SoE missions, until I joined up with an RL friend and his corp.

Since there isn't an official way of doing it in-game, why hasn't anyone set up an unofficial way of matching newbies with people willing to help?



If only there was a forum for EvE players to find corps and corps to find players?

KB


Or an in-game corp search function, which enables corps to state that they're newbie-friendly.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2013-01-24 21:52:51 UTC
New players in Eve

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Red Maiden
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2013-01-24 22:01:44 UTC
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
I ended up pretty much lost and confused after finishing the tutorial missions, with no idea what to do or where to go...


This pretty summarizes why I stuck with EVE. I finally found an MMO whose mechanics and possibilities I didn't competely grasp after only a few hours of playing. Being lost and confused in an MMO, when all other MMOs are dumbed down? Amazing!

As someone who learned about the game through the ingame chat, forums, blogs, wikis, etc, and loved every minute of it, the OP is just being lazy. Perhaps that is the prevailing attitude of the "entitlement" generation--if it isn't spoon fed to you, it isn't worth your time.

The tutorials can always be improved/iterated, so I'm not suggesting that CCP doesn't do that to improve a new player's experience, but sometimes games, like life, is about taking personal responsbility to learn on your own.
Bud Austrene
Secure Haven
#30 - 2013-01-24 22:26:07 UTC
These last few comments i think are overlooking the intense paranoia that comes with this game.
And the game is so different from other games that a person doesn't even now what to ask, let alone who.

Those that have RL friends in the game to advise them, have a tremendous learning advantage over those that don't.

I do believe that all successful business recognize that to stagnate is to die.
I believe that providing a better bridge from the tutorials to the corporations would be good for everyone.

The tutorials are pitiful representations of the different things that can be done in EVE.

If other players are involved in that transition, they may not necessarily have your best interests at heart (paranoia).
So i think that additional tutorials from CCP would be the safest way for a new player to learn the game.

Notice i did not say play the game but learn the game.

Yes I am an alt. I see no reason to make it easy for bullies and greifers

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2013-01-24 22:31:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
So, because you need to be breastfed,
everybody should be breastfed,
and we should risk driving off the smart players instead ?

Making a game more accessible to idiots won't help us keep those
who are smart enough to deal with it.
Long Term Conclusion: A game full of idiots.

Way to go, idiot !
Niveuss Nye
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2013-01-24 22:35:55 UTC
New player here.

While I will agree that this game is pretty complex and a lot to learn, I really would have been POed if I saw exclamation points on the star map and linear quests I had to do.

Please....

I have learned a lot from other players. I am now in low sec learning more.

There is an EXCELLENT wiki (though some of it out of date) Eve University put out even though I will not put out a two paragraph essay and blood sample to join Eve Uni. Goonswarm has some public sections on thier wiki and there are numerous tutorials and blogs and forums that are very informative.

Just like reading about World of Warcraft raids before raiding, Eve CAN be learned if you enjoy the better mental challenge of learning this game rather than others.

...and unlike WoW or other clones, I can make my own story - not be on some linear quest being some NPC's lackey that everybody else did. Or have to put up with empty PvP that has no meaning.

This game is not for folks that do not cope well with making thier own direction. Nor would I be able to recommend it to those that want an experience on rails or without consequences.

Not sure you can do much to change that without taking out much of what makes this game so unique. You have to be somewhat intelligent to play this.
Rambunctious
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2013-01-24 22:50:23 UTC
To all the people claiming I want to be spoonfed and breastfed and of the entitled generation, that's a load of manure. I never claimed to have wanted that. I guess I should have worded my post a bit different. But as I said, I read a ton before going to null, that still didn't help me get podded 3 times before I realized I needed bookmarks (There was also a lot less info then than there is now or it could have been that I was too young and "unintelligent." I don't know what people are getting the picture of, I just think it would be great for people to volunteer to help new players coming into the game that might want to see a bit of pvp/worms/piracy etc. under the wing of someone with more experience at it, to see how good it can be. You would still have to be "intelligent" to understand the concept, stratagies, etc. You're not spoonfeeding people you're just allowing them to see how diverse the universe is.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#34 - 2013-01-24 22:58:44 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
My roommate tried to get into EVE University twice and both times they lost his application.


Would that be because EVE University recruiters knew that the applicant was your "roommate"? Lol

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#35 - 2013-01-24 22:59:53 UTC
For the new players, check the Day 0 Advice thread. More pointers there.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Kietzke
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2013-01-24 23:13:50 UTC
...regardless of whether or not someone will help or "mentor" you, your ability to comprehend or figure out what is going on is still ultimately up to you and when your brain decides to kick in. That is why humans are NOT equal.

Many people go to school, yet they do not have the aptitude for certain skills or vocations. MOST people are not mentally capable of becoming astrophysicists nor are MOST people capable of being dumb enough to become career criminals and get away with it.

99% of the world fits somewhere in between the Eisteins and the prison rapist.

...your capabilities will be based upon what you want to learn, who you learn from and having a little fun getting podded (hopefully you learn from that too).

I have been playing EvE off and on for several years...I am STILL learning. Patience might be your biggest obstacle...

Have FUN...that is the objective of any game!!!
Joneleth Rein
#37 - 2013-01-24 23:19:09 UTC
No More Heroes wrote:
A good alliance will have mentors available for newbees. Perhaps new players should inquire of these things when joining? You are right though that this is not a solo game and most players who try to play solo will either quit or are casual masochists. The sandbox demands that players provide the things that players need and not developers.


I'm gonna paraphrase a goon cause he was right. This is actually the case right now and it actually fits better in the sandbox. Corps/alliances assigning their own mentors (which they do) to help people learn the game. I'd be game for some corp ui changes that provoke and help all corps assign mentor roles or something more akin to the corp's mentality(which they already do through their own means).

Spider Pig! Spider Pig! Does what a Spider Pig does.. Can he swing? From a web.. No he can't. He's a pig.
Demolishar
United Aggression
#38 - 2013-01-24 23:21:18 UTC
I would abuse a mentor system to hell and so would everyone else like me.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#39 - 2013-01-24 23:23:04 UTC
Joneleth Rein wrote:
No More Heroes wrote:
A good alliance will have mentors available for newbees. Perhaps new players should inquire of these things when joining? You are right though that this is not a solo game and most players who try to play solo will either quit or are casual masochists. The sandbox demands that players provide the things that players need and not developers.


I'm gonna paraphrase a goon cause he was right. This is actually the case right now and it actually fits better in the sandbox. Corps/alliances assigning their own mentors (which they do) to help people learn the game. I'd be game for some corp ui changes that provoke and help all corps assign mentor roles or something more akin to the corp's mentality(which they already do through their own means).


I think what the main point here is that we need the tools to facilitate this. Build an official mentoring system, both freelance and within the corporate structure so that new players can find those mentors easier.

Perhaps CEOs can reward the mentors if this sort of thing was being tracked.

The Drake is a Lie
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#40 - 2013-01-24 23:26:12 UTC  |  Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
When I wanted to learn how industry worked, I read the wiki pages and figured it out.

When I got interested in wormholes, I watched the scanning videos, read some wiki pages, and stumbled into w-space to get shot while I figured it out.

When I decided to go full-on PVP, I sought out a corp. I told them I didn't know much about PVP but wanted to learn. They took me in and gave me a crash course in how to fit and fly PVP ships. I was semi-competent inside a month.

If you want or need a mentor, there are plenty out there. Instituting an official program will likely lead to abuses.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.