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EVE's summer expansion better focus on sovereignty
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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#241 - 2013-01-24 18:26:09 UTC
The entire "it's because of sov" is really a side point.

Sov grinds suck. The system hasn't been touched in years. It needs to be fixed.
It doesn't matter whether it was the cause of this NIP or not. I really shouldn't have said that it was, especially seeing that it doesn't seem anymore to be the case.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
fukier
Gallente Federation
#242 - 2013-01-24 18:47:05 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
i mean sov system sucks but demanding the fix be based on PL's unwillingness to risk its tech moons in CFC space and mittani's risk-averse leadership style is kind of like basing nullsec fixes off eve-gd complaints over gatecamps and bubbles on null-high chokepoints 'keeping people out'.

Oh gd the end is nigh... I just liked s nicolo post... I feel dirty
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Gianna Thirostin
Doomheim
#243 - 2013-01-24 18:50:26 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
As demonstrated by the averted war between the CFC and the HBC, two coalitions who have been itching to shoot at each other for months, sov mechanics need to be fixed. Now. We're utterly fed up with dealing with timers and structure bashes and space that people don't care enough about to defend. We want battles, exploding ships, and goodfights, but these are becoming increasingly rare as more people get tired of the current sov mechanics.

So please, CCP, focus the summer expansion on sovereignty mechanics. I know it's a big project, but it needs to be done more than anything else and it needs to happen sooner rather than later.

James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Gianna Thirostin wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

If the leadership said it was because of sov, I'd certainly be interested to know where you saw it.


I thought "because of sov" was the whole point of this thread... Roll

I'm flattered, but I'm not leadership.


James Amril-Kesh wrote:
The entire "it's because of sov" is really a side point.

Sov grinds suck. The system hasn't been touched in years. It needs to be fixed.
It doesn't matter whether it was the cause of this NIP or not. I really shouldn't have said that it was, especially seeing that it doesn't seem anymore to be the case.


Really.. masterful troll.. 10/10.
Since the whole OP was based on what now has been shown to be a whine about boredom, and that even he admits that he doesnt know why the full blown war was called off, and is just spreading rumors I guess there isnt much left but for a mod to come lock this rant of a thread
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#244 - 2013-01-24 19:32:31 UTC
No, you've simply misread.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#245 - 2013-01-24 20:14:14 UTC
Null sec alliances creating content for their players: excellent because this is what this game is/should be about

Alliances able to discuss and set some sort of "rules" so this doesn't become a tedious process no one wants or wins with. Ok!

So where is the problem?

Players playing the game, having fun destroying ships, getting shot at, train FC's logistics and dictor/intys, this is awesome.

Again, where is the problem about this?

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Gianna Thirostin
Doomheim
#246 - 2013-01-24 20:22:01 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Null sec alliances creating content for their players: excellent because this is what this game is/should be about

Alliances able to discuss and set some sort of "rules" so this doesn't become a tedious process no one wants or wins with. Ok!

So where is the problem?

Players playing the game, having fun destroying ships, getting shot at, train FC's logistics and dictor/intys, this is awesome.

Again, where is the problem about this?


Creating content: Great! Awesome!
Creating content then wanting CCP to change the landscape because the content they create leads to boredom: The problem.

If they want to fly around and play RvB in null, awesome. If they want to come to hi-sec and do the same, again, awesome! Whining about the bed they made and are being forced to sleep in (as far as the sov situation) is the part that makes them look whiny
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#247 - 2013-01-24 20:23:00 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
I'll say it again: if CCP think that players will be infinitely patient, they are incorrect. Matters are coming to a head in null and if there isn't a proper reworking of sov 0.0, it's not going to be pretty.

I fully understand that CCP wanted to work on empire for the last few years, but now the situation in null is approaching meltdown. It has been 5 years since the last work on improving sov 0.0 was done, and now that patience is wearing very thin indeed.

*Eliminate multi-million hp structures as the lynchpin of sov. Sov strength should be determined by player activity, not deployable structures.

*Undefended sov should be easy to take, no to remotely set timers.

*Make it viable for 0.0 players to actually live in 0.0 by reworking outposts so that we can upgrade them to match NPC systems

*Base alliance income on the activity of players, not the output of lifeless moons owned by an elite few.


At the moment, Sov 0.0 depends on supers, structures and moons. It should depend on players.


Amen

And i d add: Nerf force projection (badly)

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
Jita iswhereIsit
Doomheim
#248 - 2013-01-24 20:24:27 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Null sec alliances creating content for their players: excellent because this is what this game is/should be about

Alliances able to discuss and set some sort of "rules" so this doesn't become a tedious process no one wants or wins with. Ok!

So where is the problem?

Players playing the game, having fun destroying ships, getting shot at, train FC's logistics and dictor/intys, this is awesome.

Again, where is the problem about this?


If you believe most 0.0 players should be happy with RVB 0.0 then you're misguided on the subject. 0.0 is about the drama, the politics, the huge all or nothing fights. All of that is removed and replaced with structured honorbru space fights which have no risk whatsoever, and when there's no risk there's no fun.

This is all about protecting the 1 trillion per month passive income, and whilst that remains there won't be any real big wars anytime soon.
Dave Stark
#249 - 2013-01-24 20:27:57 UTC
Gianna Thirostin wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Null sec alliances creating content for their players: excellent because this is what this game is/should be about

Alliances able to discuss and set some sort of "rules" so this doesn't become a tedious process no one wants or wins with. Ok!

So where is the problem?

Players playing the game, having fun destroying ships, getting shot at, train FC's logistics and dictor/intys, this is awesome.

Again, where is the problem about this?


Creating content: Great! Awesome!
Creating content then wanting CCP to change the landscape because the content they create leads to boredom: The problem.

If they want to fly around and play RvB in null, awesome. If they want to come to hi-sec and do the same, again, awesome! Whining about the bed they made and are being forced to sleep in (as far as the sov situation) is the part that makes them look whiny


the sov system being boring was a situation made by ccp. just because people have finally got tired of putting up with a **** system doesn't mean they created the situation, they just got tired of it.
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#250 - 2013-01-24 20:33:51 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Gianna Thirostin wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Null sec alliances creating content for their players: excellent because this is what this game is/should be about

Alliances able to discuss and set some sort of "rules" so this doesn't become a tedious process no one wants or wins with. Ok!

So where is the problem?

Players playing the game, having fun destroying ships, getting shot at, train FC's logistics and dictor/intys, this is awesome.

Again, where is the problem about this?


Creating content: Great! Awesome!
Creating content then wanting CCP to change the landscape because the content they create leads to boredom: The problem.

If they want to fly around and play RvB in null, awesome. If they want to come to hi-sec and do the same, again, awesome! Whining about the bed they made and are being forced to sleep in (as far as the sov situation) is the part that makes them look whiny


the sov system being boring was a situation made by ccp. just because people have finally got tired of putting up with a **** system doesn't mean they created the situation, they just got tired of it.


Yeah, suddenly when there is some risk involved sov got boring lol :D

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#251 - 2013-01-24 20:36:29 UTC
Yeah, cause we haven't been saying that for ages or anything.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Dave Stark
#252 - 2013-01-24 20:36:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Gianna Thirostin wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Null sec alliances creating content for their players: excellent because this is what this game is/should be about

Alliances able to discuss and set some sort of "rules" so this doesn't become a tedious process no one wants or wins with. Ok!

So where is the problem?

Players playing the game, having fun destroying ships, getting shot at, train FC's logistics and dictor/intys, this is awesome.

Again, where is the problem about this?


Creating content: Great! Awesome!
Creating content then wanting CCP to change the landscape because the content they create leads to boredom: The problem.

If they want to fly around and play RvB in null, awesome. If they want to come to hi-sec and do the same, again, awesome! Whining about the bed they made and are being forced to sleep in (as far as the sov situation) is the part that makes them look whiny


the sov system being boring was a situation made by ccp. just because people have finally got tired of putting up with a **** system doesn't mean they created the situation, they just got tired of it.


Yeah, suddenly when there is some risk involved sov got boring lol :D


which bit of "sov has always been boring" didn't you understand?
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#253 - 2013-01-24 20:41:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Yeah, cause we haven't been saying that for ages or anything.

The "sov is boring that's why we don't fight" claim would hold more water though if your alliance wasn't having a structurefun party against IRC in sov war literally last week, or PL hadn't been reinforcing SOLAR (a coalition with just as much structures as the CFC) as we speak.

Did something happen to make sov grinding unacceptable this weekend?
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#254 - 2013-01-24 20:42:33 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:


which bit of "sov has always been boring?" didn't you understand?


yeah..but suddenly it became really really really boring, that the most awesome war was slipped away.

U ll again say "but the sow is boring"...Well the war d be more interestng than all those recent wars combined together

Than u ll say "But, but sov is boring and we might loose the tech moons"

aaaaa...that is the point :DDD

And what do u know, aint that highsec bear your main as u stated on some threads before.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#255 - 2013-01-24 20:43:42 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Yeah, cause we haven't been saying that for ages or anything.

The "sov is boring that's why we don't fight" claim would hold more water though if your alliance wasn't having a structurefun party against IRC in sov war literally last week, or PL hadn't been reinforcing SOLAR (a coalition with just as much structures as the CFC) as we speak


good points

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
fukier
Gallente Federation
#256 - 2013-01-24 20:49:41 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Yeah, cause we haven't been saying that for ages or anything.

The "sov is boring that's why we don't fight" claim would hold more water though if your alliance wasn't having a structurefun party against IRC in sov war literally last week, or PL hadn't been reinforcing SOLAR (a coalition with just as much structures as the CFC) as we speak.

Did something happen to make sov grinding unacceptable this weekend?


so from what i understand untill we get ring mining and the removal of moon mining we wont see cfc and hbc go at each other for fear of loosing tech Moons?
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#257 - 2013-01-24 20:56:55 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
i mean sov system sucks but demanding the fix be based on PL's unwillingness to risk its tech moons in CFC space and mittani's risk-averse leadership style is kind of like basing nullsec fixes off eve-gd complaints over gatecamps and bubbles on null-high chokepoints 'keeping people out'.


Mittani's leadership of goonswarm and cfc can be summarized by "lets be friends and carebear together."

But yeah its ccps fault.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#258 - 2013-01-24 21:03:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
fukier wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Yeah, cause we haven't been saying that for ages or anything.

The "sov is boring that's why we don't fight" claim would hold more water though if your alliance wasn't having a structurefun party against IRC in sov war literally last week, or PL hadn't been reinforcing SOLAR (a coalition with just as much structures as the CFC) as we speak.

Did something happen to make sov grinding unacceptable this weekend?


so from what i understand untill we get ring mining and the removal of moon mining we wont see cfc and hbc go at each other for fear of loosing tech Moons?
not even then
ring mining is kind of a dumb concept in my opinion anyway, but the current state of affairs will continue until some event happens that will allow one side to win with relative little risk to itself
Shadowschild
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#259 - 2013-01-24 21:11:22 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
i mean sov system sucks but demanding the fix be based on PL's unwillingness to risk its tech moons in CFC space and mittani's risk-averse leadership style is kind of like basing nullsec fixes off eve-gd complaints over gatecamps and bubbles on null-high chokepoints 'keeping people out'.


Mittani's leadership of goonswarm and cfc can be summarized by "lets be friends and carebear together."

But yeah its ccps fault.


It's alot more complicated then that, there are alot of things we don't see.
Dave Stark
#260 - 2013-01-24 21:13:42 UTC
Zloco Crendraven wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


which bit of "sov has always been boring?" didn't you understand?


yeah..but suddenly it became really really really boring, that the most awesome war was slipped away.

U ll again say "but the sow is boring"...Well the war d be more interestng than all those recent wars combined together

Than u ll say "But, but sov is boring and we might loose the tech moons"

aaaaa...that is the point :DDD

And what do u know, aint that highsec bear your main as u stated on some threads before.


actually, i'll say "sov has always been boring"
then you'll say something irrelevant.
then i'll say "even if this would be the most interesting war in eve's history, that interest isn't greater than the pure displeasure enduring more of the terrible sov mechanics".
sure, sov is ****, sure people still did it, but you can only put up with so much of a terrible system before you have to say "enough is enough"

this entire joke of a "war" is people saying enough is enough.

and what do i know? probably a reasonable amount, i'm an observant chap. the difference is i'm just not on the tinfoil bandwagon.
this is my main, it is currently in high sec. however during part of the delve conflict i was in a corp within test, i have shot at structures, i have been in 0.0, i may not have lived in 0.0 for 5 years like some people but i'm not ignorant.

sure tech is broken.
sure sov is broken.
is the lack of war about more than just sov? probably.
does that stop the issue of sov mechanics being **** any less of a fact? not in the slightest.