Player Features and Ideas Discussion

In general there's damage, tank, and tackle. You can't have it all with either shield or armor tankers. You people are trying to make armor overpowered so you can have all three.

Shields can give up tackle for tank and damage. If you want more tackle, you give up tank and still have damage.

Armor can give up damage for tank. If you want more damage you give up tank and still have tackle.

After these armor changes armor will be in a much better place.

Sounds good! Probably needs a bit of work to keep it from being grossly OP'd, but it's a decent idea. Sadly, Fozzie is married to the whole AAR module thing by now, so odds are we're stuck with it.

1) If everyone thought it was great it would probably be overpowered.
2) MAR and LAR power reqs are on the table.
3) MAR and LAR reps/cycle are on the table.
4) If you are not mind-boggingly obsessed with 2-3 reppers on everything you can get a full rack of Neutrons and two MFS along with a 'good enough' tank on a Gallente boat.
5) Links and tracking enhancers are on the cutting board. The nerf of the latter will close the gap a bit between armor and shield.

Agree with direction. Also, please always keep in mind that we don't all fly around in fleets with logi support. Many of us still like to run solo or in small gangs w/o logis - in both PVP and PVE. It would also be nice to see more situations where using multiple active local reps has advantages over RR and/or resists.


Glad to hear that you recognize that midslot and lowslot modules affect balance - in particular, the TE and TC. TEs have been OP for a while now, esp. when matching up shield-tanked AC ships against armor-tanked blaster boats.


The AAR is interesting. So, +1 on that. It will probably require tweaking to keep it from being either OP or useless, so please plan to review and adjust it within a month or two, after it is released. The ASB's main problem was due to taking far too long to review and tweak the bloody thing. It was pretty clear during the AT that the ASB was OP, yet it was not fixed.

Don't agree with adding new skills, though. The argument that adding more skills increases the separation between new and old players is completely valid. This can be proven simply enough by rolling up a new toon, using EVEMon to spec out 1 and 3 months worth of skills, and see how well the 1 month old toon will fare against a 3 month old toon, and how well the 3 month toon will fare against a 2+ year old toon (which will typically have all level 4/5 base skills). The more base skills you add, the worse it gets.

The best way to close the gap is to remove skills, not add them. Providing an advantage to older players should take the form of adding more levels to the existing skills, with the corresponding increases in skill training time required to train up to level 6 or 10.


Looking at the rig penatlies... the speed penalty vs. signature penalty is a no-brainer, but I don't agree that trading the speed penalty for a PG penalty is a good solution. A PG penalty is still much worse than a signature penalty, in most cases, so shield tanking still has the advantage here.

Perhaps, you should consider changing the shield rig penalty to a CPU penalty - or, if you really want to keep the signature and speed penalties, just reduce the speed penalty, making it much less than the signature penalty (or is there something in the code or database that requires all rig penalties have to have the same base percentage?).

I apologize in advance if this particular issue has already been asked, and answered:

T2 armor plates got a buff, which increased their use. Rolled Tungsten is still popular, due to less mass, easier fitting, cheaper cost. But, all other flavors of plates - Nanofiber, Titanium, Crystalline Carbonide, Faction, and T1 - don't have much of a place in the game, unless you just can't find T2 or RRT plates on market. And, since the NPC drop rate of RRT plates is high, market scarcity isn't currently a reason to use the other plates.

How about some flavor-specific stat tweaks, in order to give us a reason to use these less-popular plates?

You are talking a lot about AAR but you forget about topic name: Armor tanking 2.0
And if we agree that there are ships for solo pvp and fleet pvp so why gallent's ships for solo (well most of them)? 2 gallent's BC for solo (and only Talos, that pretty new in EvE sometimes use in fleet pvp. Why sometime? Naga lol!). Maybe its time to change brutix or myrm bonus?

And also.
Armor tank is still worse. Becuase shield tank ships faster, have more DPS, better distance control (tracking enh ftw) and realy good tank. And if we take shield logists its pretty better then armor setup anyway.

What about that? How this change (aar+new-amazing-skill) will help us to chose armor tank ships more often?

Oversized shield mods are the main reason why active armor tanking is underpowered in comparison:


Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer: 60 armor/sec, 4320 armor per reload.

L-Ancillary Shield Booster: 97.5 shield/sec, 3510 total shield per reload.

These are both the cruiser-sized version. However cruisers can also fit the battleship version:

XL-Ancillary Shield Booster: 196 shield/sec, 8820 shield per reload.

The XL-ASB more than doubles your tank. It is far too easy to fit for what it does.



Active armor tanking will remain underpowered until it has an answer to oversizing or until oversizing ends. Personally I think it's obvious that oversizing is broken as hell and should go.

Let's take a close look at that 4320 for the MAAR. We can increase that a bit. Assume two armor nano pumps. 4320 * 1.1 * 1.088 (2nd at small stacking penalty) ~ 5170. Is it on a Gallente ship? 5170 * 1.375 = 7109 or 80.6% of what a X-LASB can offer. As much per second? Of course not- but we are comparing a module that has a 150+ PG requirement to a module that has a 500 PG requirement.

You don't have to dedicate every low on the ship to tank anymore. You don't have to sigh and settle for electrons. You definitely don't have to crawl to the target at a snail's pace.

Burst >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sustained for pvp.

Not realy

Burst>>>>sustained when you have <10-15 ppl at opposite fleet.