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Why has the game become more expensive to play?

Author
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#21 - 2013-01-22 17:03:00 UTC
So people running l2 missions should have access to what exactly?

CCP has massively buffed bottom-end ships, so I have no idea what you are complaining about in terms of access. You want better stuff? Play harder or smarter.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal

Scaramanga Erquilenne
#22 - 2013-01-22 17:32:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Scaramanga Erquilenne
Thanks for all the feedback on this and yes i am sure there are more opportunity's to make more isk in a corp providing you get in a good one but solo is were am at the moment.And this it just my experiance and perspective i am more than willing to admit i may be wrong and i dont want to knock Eve as its a truely unique game.

I can see light at the end of the tunnel once my industrial skills grow and my PI and ME on blueprints start bearing fruit , i hope ) But again that all takes a long time in terms of game play.I have enjoyed the learning curve but found the market and cost and reward to be the most frustrating part of EVE.The margins are so small for profit compared to the hours of grind you have to put in for new players.

People say dont fly what you cant afford to lose, well again for new players who dont buy plex thats not a option unless you want to double the time you have to grind.

I have played free to play games were you grind for less hours to get stuff out of the game , I am not sure what business model CCP use but i just know there is little option but to buy plex in eve unless you want to grind for way to many hours as a new player .And then there is the power of two which gives me the feeling i need to have two accounts in EVE one for industry and one for PVP again more cost and more feeling that your one account is not enough.

I just think for a game were i pay a monthly sub there is way to much grind involved.I sometimes think the market is on lock down for new players and for the first year of game play your just a cash cow for the eve market.While i understand the competitive market place is what makes eve unique and you cant devalue it to much , I do think CCP should offer more in game reward for the first 6 months of subscription say a 20% subsidy for some items bought on the market .

I am lucky enough to be able to afford plex on top of my sub but i know for sure if i was not in that position i would have walked away from EVE after one month due to the grind and cost of everything.I might well be doing it all wrong but my impression of Eve is its to expensive for new players lots of risk and little reward in terms of isk.

The learning curve is one thing but the reality of eve market place is another thing were think ccp can do more to help new players and encourage them to make it past there first 6 months of subscription.I know eve is harsh and unforgiven and i like all them things about it , i just think its to expensive in your fist year of game play.
You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist 
Steven Koskanaiken
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#23 - 2013-01-22 22:13:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Steven Koskanaiken
Scaramanga Erquilenne wrote:

I just think for a game were i pay a monthly sub there is way to much grind involved.I sometimes think the market is on lock down for new players and for the first year of game play your just a cash cow for the eve market.While i understand the competitive market place is what makes eve unique and you cant devalue it to much , I do think CCP should offer more in game reward for the first 6 months of subscription say a 20% subsidy for some items bought on the market .
.


Yeah, this surely won't be exploited to hell and back by veterans by making new alts and buying their stuff using those alts and then contract them over.

Ergo: Malcanis' Law yet again.

"Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of 'new players', that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players."

EDIT:

The game is still the same subscription price ever since I started playing over 2 years ago.

The big issue with your point is that you think you pay RL money for pixel wealth. EVE is a game, you pay money to have FUN, if that means you don't become the richest EVE player, so be it.

Log in, do what you like to do, have fun doing it = WIN.
Log in, grind cause you want to become rich for the sake of being rich = You might want to reconsider your playstyle.

EDIT 2:

Also, as a new player you dont' need couple hundred millions to play. As a new player you can fly small ships (frigates, destroyers, maybe an occasional cruiser). None of which are worth a lot (50+ million). EVE is scaled in such way that you get the rewards for what you do in line with your skills (unless you scale down) and in line with the ships you use.

You don't need a battleship for level 1 missions.
You don't have the skills for a battleship.

Why should level 1 missions pay out high enough to buy a battleship.
Kai Sheia
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2013-01-23 00:58:38 UTC
Scaramanga Erquilenne wrote:
Thanks for all the feedback on this and yes i am sure there are more opportunity's to make more isk in a corp providing you get in a good one but solo is were am at the moment.And this it just my experiance and perspective i am more than willing to admit i may be wrong and i dont want to knock Eve as its a truely unique game.

I can see light at the end of the tunnel once my industrial skills grow and my PI and ME on blueprints start bearing fruit , i hope ) But again that all takes a long time in terms of game play.I have enjoyed the learning curve but found the market and cost and reward to be the most frustrating part of EVE.

People say dont fly what you cant afford to lose, well again for new players who dont buy plex thats not a option unless you want to double the time you have to grind.

I have played free to play games were you grind for less hours to get stuff out of the game , I am not sure what business model CCP use but i just know there is little option but to buy plex in eve unless you want to grind for way to many hours as a new player .And then there is the power of two which gives me the feeling i need to have two accounts in EVE one for industry and one for PVP again more cost and more feeling that your one account is not enough.

I just think for a game were i pay a monthly sub there is way to much grind involved.I sometimes think the market is on lock down for new players and for the first year of game play your just a cash cow for the eve market.While i understand the competitive market place is what makes eve unique and you cant devalue it to much , I do think CCP should offer more in game reward for the first 6 months of subscription say a 20% subsidy for some items bought on the market .

I am lucky enough to be able to afford plex on top of my sub but i know for sure if i was not in that position i would have walked away from EVE after one month due to the grind and cost of everything.I might well be doing it all wrong but my impression of Eve is its to expensive for new players lots of risk and little reward in terms of isk.

The learning curve is one thing but the reality of eve market place is another thing were think ccp can do more to help new players and encourage them to make it past there first 6 months of subscription.I know eve is harsh and unforgiven and i like all them things about it , i just think its to expensive in your fist year of game play.


ok, my question is this.

what are you trying to do in your first 6 months that you are having so much trouble with financially? what do you WANT to do that you cannot do without selling PLEX to fund?

what "hours of grind" do you mean? I don't see what grind you are being forced into.

maybe I'm just seeing things skewed because I remember having to do learning skills...

in some ways I'm jealous of newer characters,sure you don't have the freedom and "power", but theres so much to DO and EXPLORE that takes a lot less consideration and investment into. the stakes are so much smaller that provides its own sort of freedom.

Merouk Baas
#25 - 2013-01-23 01:30:21 UTC
He's talking about buying and researching blueprints and he's in a small corporation, so I would bet that he's trying to maintain a POS tower somewhere. Maybe a large one.

If that's the case, from the beginning POSes were intended for multiple-player corporations, and not really for solo players. And the cost of fuel has gone up and down with the market. At some point in the past, CCP turned off NPC production of robotics and construction blocks and the other goods that go into making POS fuel, and player-driven planetary PI now has to produce all that stuff. As a result, it's all expensive, because high-resource planets are freaking rare and the manufacturing chains are complex.

Pinaculus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-01-23 13:11:10 UTC
ISK is hard to get when you're new because you're new. It's got little to do with skill points and lots to do with the fact that you don't yet know where to look to make decent in-game cash. There's loads of ISK out there, and loads of people with so much to throw around that they really don't even care how much stuff costs or what their wallet balance is.

I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#27 - 2013-01-23 14:29:32 UTC
Scaramanga Erquilenne wrote:
Not all but almost every item i look at on the market price graph for the past years shows a upwards trend , why is this Question

I thought there was a large majority of players who just mine and build stuff in high sec ,so why are so many items all going up in price acording the the graphs? Have the rewards for mission running and other grinds gone up to off set this ?

Are not as many people making stuff as there was a year ago ? are is it all a virtual monopoly were the rich get richer and the poor get shafted ?



CCP changed Drones from dropping alloys to being standard bounty rats. The Drone Regions in 0.0 were a vast source of mineral supply, and kept mineral prices depressed for about 5 years. Now they've returned towards normal levels and prices for ships are no longer artificially low.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Maire Gheren
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2013-01-23 14:43:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Maire Gheren
The prices dont actually mean that much.
Imagine that instead of ISK, missions payed in tritanium. And you had to exchange objects, "i'll trade # of X for # of Y" instead of just hitting "Buy Now".

One day you notice that whenever you offer to trade tritanium for things, people ask more. If you try to trade Pyerite instead, nothing has really changed. This doesn't mean that there's someone out there trying to make it hard on you. It just means that there's a lot of Tritanium on the market, so it's worth comparatively less.

This is usually the point where people stop mining veldspar and start mining scordite and so on instead. And maybe this is the point where you start doing things that give you less Trit and try to get something different.

Currency is basically just another commodity. It gets treated a bit differently because everyone accepts it, and it has no mass or location, but it's still just one more commodity on the market.

If everythings' "prices are rising", it just means the supply is high right now. Nonetheless, you most likely aren't all about trading ISK, you trade minerals or ore or modules or something.

You use ISK as an intermediary exchange, and so the number of units of ISK that items X, Y, Z, are worth isn't THAT big a deal because your wealth can be measured in ISK, or in Tritanium, or in Light Neutron Blaster I's, or whatever, and you're probably diversified out.

The only reason you should really worry about value of ISK is if all your holdings are in ISK just sitting there while that market slowly inflates. And that's not even happening very fast. It's not like we're in runaway hyperinflation or anything.
Keno Skir
#29 - 2013-01-23 16:46:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Keno Skir
Scaramanga Erquilenne wrote:
People say dont fly what you cant afford to lose, well again for new players who dont buy plex thats not a option unless you want to double the time you have to grind.


Risk vs Reward.

Every player has to find a balance between the two, miners as well as everyone else.

Much the same with combat, i'd like to faction fit all my ships but to do that would require mission grinding i'm not willing to do right now. You want to fly faction fit t3 boosted hulks, but it seems to involve too much grinding for you. Try to imagine how boring the game would be if you could afford everything right away, where are your goals?

Eve is designed to be played longterm, so why all the complaints about the part of the game you spend the least amount of time on - New Pilot. Trust me if you really like eve you will want something new to keep your attention by year two.

Anyway, do feel for ya. Contact me in game by eve mail and i'll hook you up a mining deal. Better played with friends as many have said so far Lol

Isk gets easier naturally as you progress as a player. If you are finding you can't support the ships you want to fly it's likely you aren't skilled to fly it well enough anyway, but remember that can be in the form of SP or actual game skill.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#30 - 2013-01-23 22:56:17 UTC
Scaramanga Erquilenne wrote:
As a casual player your left with no other option but to buy plex in my view.


Working as intended. Sad

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Davith en Divalone
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2013-01-24 00:01:37 UTC
Scaramanga Erquilenne wrote:
People say dont fly what you cant afford to lose, well again for new players who dont buy plex thats not a option unless you want to double the time you have to grind.


I don't see this myself. My exploration ships (frigates and cruisers) pay for themselves on a single good night. The Venture can turn a profit with a handful of ore runs (and insane profit if you want to risk ninja gas mining.) Multiple PvP Combat corps specialize in cheap and smart to maximize the efficiency ratio of their killboards. The Sisters Epic Arc will give you enough ISK to get into a destroyer and/or cruiser with ISK to spare.

If you think you're grinding, stop and give yourself a challenge. Go sightseeing with a naked jump clone in a noobship or shulttle into hostile space. Play wormhole roulette. Maybe you'll be politely blown up by kindly natives, and maybe you'll see one of the more beautiful systems in Eve. Do flybys of structures and marvel at the scenery. Anchor secure cans in safespots with Burma Shave poems. Figure out how to do things in an undersized and underpowered ship. Figure out how to do things in a completely different ship. Figure out how to do things with a completely different weapon system. Figure out how to do what you do in low or null. Create an alt for the purpose of cornering the regional market of Janitors, Marines, Exotic Dancers, and Holoreels. Jump into a wormhole to highsec with a shuttle and 2-million-ISK budget, and don't come back until you've turned that into a hundred million.

CraftyCroc
Fraternity Alliance Please Ignore
#32 - 2013-01-24 00:07:31 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Scaramanga Erquilenne wrote:
As a casual player your left with no other option but to buy plex in my view.


Working as intended. Sad



Sadly i'm inclined to agree. I am now running 3 accounts.1 entirely dedicated to funding my plex. I've found (given the time + training) its the way to "play being free" i.e. minimal grind.

New players are hit with an uphill struggle. It does however teach you the value of isk for when you start making it. There are ways of speeding it up (join a corp etc) BUT it still does not change the fact that ISK is worth nothing


TLDR: Isk has no value
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#33 - 2013-01-24 07:02:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
Long story somewhat short : earning ISK got slightly easier on average, obtaining goods did not get easier at the same pace (or remained just as easy/hard, or even got slightly harder), so overall, more money is chasing slightly less more goods, so prices go up.

P.S. If you want to get technical, then RL paper money is in a very similar boat to the virtual ISK, as in both have no intrinsic value, just one we assign to it... but that's a different (and more complicated) story.
Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
#34 - 2013-01-24 18:30:47 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Many bots got banned and there were some mineral related changes so that's the supply side requiring more "manual labour" to get minerals upping the price and scarcity, on the other side there have been some silly income generating things going on, FW incursions and the likes.




This pretty much, alot of bots got banned and less minerals were being mined in response to this.

Oderint Dum Metuant

Avrila Inyante
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2013-01-24 19:16:25 UTC
Scaramanga Erquilenne wrote:
Thanks for all the feedback on this and yes i am sure there are more opportunity's to make more isk in a corp providing you get in a good one but solo is were am at the moment.And this it just my experiance and perspective i am more than willing to admit i may be wrong and i dont want to knock Eve as its a truely unique game.

I can see light at the end of the tunnel once my industrial skills grow and my PI and ME on blueprints start bearing fruit , i hope ) But again that all takes a long time in terms of game play.I have enjoyed the learning curve but found the market and cost and reward to be the most frustrating part of EVE.The margins are so small for profit compared to the hours of grind you have to put in for new players.

People say dont fly what you cant afford to lose, well again for new players who dont buy plex thats not a option unless you want to double the time you have to grind.

I have played free to play games were you grind for less hours to get stuff out of the game , I am not sure what business model CCP use but i just know there is little option but to buy plex in eve unless you want to grind for way to many hours as a new player .And then there is the power of two which gives me the feeling i need to have two accounts in EVE one for industry and one for PVP again more cost and more feeling that your one account is not enough.

I just think for a game were i pay a monthly sub there is way to much grind involved.I sometimes think the market is on lock down for new players and for the first year of game play your just a cash cow for the eve market.While i understand the competitive market place is what makes eve unique and you cant devalue it to much , I do think CCP should offer more in game reward for the first 6 months of subscription say a 20% subsidy for some items bought on the market .

I am lucky enough to be able to afford plex on top of my sub but i know for sure if i was not in that position i would have walked away from EVE after one month due to the grind and cost of everything.I might well be doing it all wrong but my impression of Eve is its to expensive for new players lots of risk and little reward in terms of isk.

The learning curve is one thing but the reality of eve market place is another thing were think ccp can do more to help new players and encourage them to make it past there first 6 months of subscription.I know eve is harsh and unforgiven and i like all them things about it , i just think its to expensive in your fist year of game play.


You really dont have to grind. The reason you feel like you do is because your running level 2 missions. Start running L3s and you will make MORE than enough for a player of your skill level. Get your skills up, ALL of them (Fitting skills are important as hell. Advanced Weapon Upgrades 4 is almost a must for long range weapons that are good for missions at higher levels), graduate to a Battlecruiser, learn how to tank damage, run level 4s, and you will be making big money. Use your LPs to buy faction items or implants that are trending upwards in price, make MORE money. Loot the wreaks, make MORE money. Salvage the higher level missions (salvage on missions under L3 is next to worthless), make MORE money.

If missions arent your thing, look into the exploration aspect of the game. To me its more fun as you never know where your gonna end up and what your gonna find. I found an A-Type propulsion modual ( a type of faction/deadspace/officer loot) that i sold for over 100 million isk. This is in highsec, running a DED 4/10 complex that I easily solo'd.

Get into a corp with lowsec access, and you can make more. Running Magnetometric Sites (need skills Salvaging 1 and Archaeology 1) and Radar Sites ( Codebreaking level 1 ) and a 15 min mission TOPS you can make miiillllions! Me and a buddy ran Only magnetometric sites for like an hour, we made 250,000,000 EASY!

If your willing to risk it, you can wormhole ninja mine. Risky, but MASSIVE payouts. Find some Arkanor or whatever it is, you can make about a million isk every minute.

Basically, there are LOTS of ways to make money in EVE. TONS! There is no reason to plex as a new player. Never. Ever. And the few people i met who plexed right out the door blew all their money out the ass on Battleship Hulls that they couldnt fit right, lost them to lowsec gate camps, and forgot to insure them, and boom 2 days later your nice shiny plex is gone.

Eve has been around for going on 10 years. As such, its core mechanics are not broken. (they were back in the day). In any non-broken game, there is NO NEED to pay for money, from the Developer or from "Gold Sellers" which by the way will get your ass banned.

EVE HAS A BACKWARDS LEARNING CURVE. ITS HARD TO START OUT. ITS HARD TO LEARN WHAT TO DO TO REALLY MAKE MONEY. ITS HARD TO LEARN HOW TO BUY, SELL, FIT SHIPS, SURVIVE

AND THIS IS WHY WE LOVE IT :)
KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
#36 - 2013-01-24 20:21:16 UTC
Steven Koskanaiken wrote:


The game is still the same subscription price ever since I started playing over 2 years ago.

The big issue with your point is that you think you pay RL money for pixel wealth. EVE is a game, you pay money to have FUN, if that means you don't become the richest EVE player, so be it.

Log in, do what you like to do, have fun doing it = WIN.
Log in, grind cause you want to become rich for the sake of being rich = You might want to reconsider your playstyle.




^^This, pretty much. I don't understand why people complain about "the grind." It's a game. If you make it into a grind, then that's on you. If you're not having fun, then why are you spending money to "grind?"

If the goal you set for yourself mandates a grind, then you're bringing this on yourself. The accumulation of ISK is often a goal set by new players and I think that leads to this grind mentality. Whether mining, ratting or manufacturing you're in for a lot of repitition if your goal is ISK accumulation.

I'd also say that so-called "solo play" is also a big contributor to the grind mentality. What can you do solo? Mine, rat, missions, industry? All repetitive tasks. Some people want those mundane repetitive tasks...maybe as a release from their otherwise hectic lives (heck...why is Angry Birds so popular?)

Getting into a corp creates new dimensions...not only in the variety of tasks you can do, but also in getting the input of other players for ideas and things to do: "Hey, let's explore a WH." "Oh...another corp wardecced us...let's take 'em on." Etc.

But back to the original issue...you make the game whatever you want...that's the idea of "the sandbox." If you choose to make it your own private h ell, that's on you....not the devs. They've handed you a universe...don't waste it.

KB

Dum Spiro Spero

Telegram Sam
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2013-01-24 20:32:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Telegram Sam
Scaramanga Erquilenne wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
More people -> More people earning ISK -> more ISK in the universe -> inflation

More ISK in the universe -> More people trading -> ISK changes hands faster (as opposed to saving it) -> inflation

Thanks to PLEX, a lot of ISK changes hands a lot faster now.



Yes but are ingame wages and fees not ment to rise with the cost of inflation in EVE ?Other wise it just puts more pressure on people to spend money on plex.

So more people are spending ISk made from running missions and less people are mining and building ?.I must be doing some thing wrong runniung throiugh L2 missions at the moment and you get nothing but peanuts even after salvage, from most of them, some l2 missions as little as 200.000 isk barely cover the cost of my ammo used )

Seems like you pay a monthly sub just to grind for hours to be able to afford things in order to play the game.As a casual player your left with no other option but to buy plex in my view.Your better off just loging in to train your skills for the fIrst 12 months of EVE in my eyes

I enjoy eve and will continue to sub because its still the best game set in space for the moment, but i realy do think its unbalanced and nothing but a grind for new players lots of risk grind and little reward ,and not to mention the advantages people get from skills for just having played the game longer and being able to afford better implants on top of that The game is all stacked against new players in my view.

He's got a point. To be realistic, mission bounty amounts should go up with inflation. Agents should pay more to stay competitiive in the hiring market, otherwise people will move on to activities that pay better. And their daily quotas for blowing up Kruul and Zazzmatazz won't get met.
Blink
Pinaculus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2013-01-24 20:50:09 UTC
In-Game Wages? Really? There aren't any wages. There's stuff you do for ISK. I think CCP made a mistake calling different fields "careers." They're not careers. They're opportunities, and they're everywhere. Missions are stable and predictable, but they're also dull. There are much better, albeit riskier, ways to make ISK. The problem is that most of them aren't mentioned in the tutorial. Here's a brief list.

PI - Free ISK for 10 minutes of clicking every day (or less). Low SP Requirement
Station Trading - Unpredictable amount of ISK for as much clicking as you want as often as you want. Zero SP Requirement.
Faction Warfare - Lots of predictable ISK (in the form of Loyalty Points) for sitting in a PVP area for 10 minutes. Zero SP Requirement. Risk of losing cheap ships and standings loss.
Exploration - Highly unpredictable ISK with moderate play session length requirement. Medicore SP Requirement.
Hauling - Predictable ISK with moderate play session length. Risk of PVP or ganks. Mediocre SP Requirement.
Scamming - Unpredictable ISK. Zero SP Requirement. Makes you feel dirty inside.

Missions - Predictable (bad) ISK. High SP Requirement. Really boring.

I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs.

Marius Deterium
Crush Kill Destroy
#39 - 2013-01-25 00:00:49 UTC
I took over a year off from the game and I noticed the same thing myself.

I haven't read much of this thread but the op, but I think I know why.

It all has to do with mineral prices. Over the last several years, starting with the shuttle, ccp has been removing artificial price caps on minerals. For instance, NPCs used to sell shuttles for a certain price. In unlimited quantities. This created an artifical price cap for trit as you could just buy shuttles and reprocess them when the mineral price exceeded the reprocessed amount.

In addition CCP has added the 'additional materials' required for building things, to further help offset this effect.

Recently we saw containers no longer being seeded by NPCs. Another part of this effort.
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