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CSM Vote Stuffing?

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Thomas Hurt
Future Ventures
#1 - 2013-01-24 03:17:19 UTC
Goonfleet and TEST's membership has tripled in the last 5 months, the vast majority of those additions in alt corps. I don't want to call "election fraud" too soon, but this is looking pretty bad. Why should one person get five times the votes I do because they have more funny money to blow on alts than I do?
Lord MuffloN
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-01-24 03:20:02 UTC
"abloo bloo, we should limit the democratic rights of others, but not me"

Also, at least half of that numbers are alts.
Proletariat Tingtango
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2013-01-24 03:20:45 UTC
I can tell you safely that both the CFC and HBC have enough unique accounts that even if you could somehow police alt-voting we could install anyone we wanted, probably in multiples, and there would be little to nothing you could do about it.
Thomas Hurt
Future Ventures
#4 - 2013-01-24 03:22:09 UTC
Lord MuffloN wrote:

Also, at least half of that numbers are alts.


That was my point... Maybe read the OP a lil better.
Lord MuffloN
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-01-24 03:29:48 UTC
Thomas Hurt wrote:
Lord MuffloN wrote:

Also, at least half of that numbers are alts.


That was my point... Maybe read the OP a lil better.


No I understand perfectly, you're the one that don't seem to understand my point, you're advocating to empower the minorities at the cost of disenfranchising those who spend more time and money at this game.

Yes you can buy elections on the CSM in theory, and in practice, yet no one seems to have tried it.
Thomas Hurt
Future Ventures
#6 - 2013-01-24 03:39:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Thomas Hurt
Lord MuffloN wrote:
[quote=Thomas Hurt]
you're advocating to empower the minorities at the cost of disenfranchising those who spend more time and money at this game.


You're damn right I am. The U.S. of all countries got rid of poll taxes almost 50 years ago, but a Space-Video Game set thousands of years in the future made by an Icelandic (a very enlightened country) company still has de-facto poll taxes? This is a shameful state of affairs. Players like the veldspar miners around Jita (real salt of the earth, hardworking folks) don't have the ISK to rig an election.

edit: Oh and G*d forbid we empower the minorities... Roll
Lord MuffloN
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-01-24 03:54:37 UTC
Alright, if you want reforms this is the wrong forum to post it, the Jita Park is this way, I even linked the thread on voting reforms for you.

While in real life I would agree with you, here I can say if someone really wanted to rig the CSM election and had the capital to do so they could do it even if you would take steps towards one actual real life person = 1 vote, I'll even describe it for you!

A) Buy a metric fuckton of PLEX.
B) Register new accounts with different names, use TOR to void IP adress logs, over a certain time.
C) Vote using TOR to again void IP adress tracking, again, over a certain period of time.

This can all be scripted relatively easy too.

The manpower and time it would take to double and tripple check votes makes the whole proposition of checking for election fraud on this scale impossible.

But my point still stands, despite very real possibilities for the CFC and the HBC to take every single CSM seat if we wanted to, it has yet to happen, maybe it's because we're not the raging barbarian hordes that wants to destroy civilization as we know it (except risk averse carebears, those we would persecute like [Insert cultural and/or racial genocide of choice], but sadly not even this have happened)
Frying Doom
#8 - 2013-01-24 04:21:33 UTC
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:
I can tell you safely that both the CFC and HBC have enough unique accounts that even if you could somehow police alt-voting we could install anyone we wanted, probably in multiples, and there would be little to nothing you could do about it.

Well actually it could be change to stop you but that would be silly.

CCP just declares your alliance and any associated characters, non-citizens of EvE as you a a terrorist group and therefore ineligible to vote.

Or we follow the English example, claim you are not human and so have no rights.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-01-24 04:30:20 UTC
Quote:
CSM Vote Stuffing?


yeah, last year there was 10,058. Can't wait to see the amount this year.

Roll


DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#10 - 2013-01-24 04:30:25 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:
I can tell you safely that both the CFC and HBC have enough unique accounts that even if you could somehow police alt-voting we could install anyone we wanted, probably in multiples, and there would be little to nothing you could do about it.

Well actually it could be change to stop you but that would be silly.

CCP just declares your alliance and any associated characters, non-citizens of EvE as you a a terrorist group and therefore ineligible to vote.

Or we follow the English example, claim you are not human and so have no rights.

Better yet, just start banning all goons, rite? And bumpers.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#11 - 2013-01-24 04:33:39 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Or we follow the English example, claim you are not human and so have no rights.


Adds new meaning to the term Terra Nullius.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
stoicfaux
#12 - 2013-01-24 04:40:56 UTC
It's the Golden Rule in action. He who has the gold, rules. And last I checked, CCP has the gold.

Plus, if you look at the results of the CSM 7 election, even if the boogeymen goons triple their votes for CSM chair, those votes would represent a meager ~9% of the Eve population.

/shrug.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#13 - 2013-01-24 04:49:38 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
It's the Golden Rule in action. He who has the gold, rules. And last I checked, CCP has the gold.

Plus, if you look at the results of the CSM 7 election, even if the boogeymen goons triple their votes for CSM chair, those votes would represent a meager ~9% of the Eve population.

/shrug.

SURPRISE ~~

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
stoicfaux
#14 - 2013-01-24 05:01:40 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
It's the Golden Rule in action. He who has the gold, rules. And last I checked, CCP has the gold.

Plus, if you look at the results of the CSM 7 election, even if the boogeymen goons triple their votes for CSM chair, those votes would represent a meager ~9% of the Eve population.

/shrug.

SURPRISE ~~

Oh my. Note to self, buy popcorn.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
BobZumda
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2013-01-24 05:10:25 UTC  |  Edited by: BobZumda
Thomas Hurt wrote:
Lord MuffloN wrote:
[quote=Thomas Hurt]
you're advocating to empower the minorities at the cost of disenfranchising those who spend more time and money at this game.


You're damn right I am. The U.S. of all countries got rid of poll taxes almost 50 years ago, but a Space-Video Game set thousands of years in the future made by an Icelandic (a very enlightened country) company still has de-facto poll taxes? This is a shameful state of affairs. Players like the veldspar miners around Jita (real salt of the earth, hardworking folks) don't have the ISK to rig an election.

edit: Oh and G*d forbid we empower the minorities... Roll


I don't know what US you are referring to, but the current US is full of states that require a state issued ID that costs money that requires documentation that takes money to get. Also known as a poll tax.

EDIT: Also, it's one vote per paid account over 30 days. What other meaningful restriction would you apply that works?
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2013-01-24 05:15:33 UTC
Thomas Hurt wrote:
Goonfleet and TEST's membership has tripled in the last 5 months, the vast majority of those additions in alt corps. I don't want to call "election fraud" too soon, but this is looking pretty bad. Why should one person get five times the votes I do because they have more funny money to blow on alts than I do?

because ccp wants to pretend your opinion matters and keeps denying proposals to deny the franchise to worthless npc alts because of the optics

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#17 - 2013-01-24 06:08:35 UTC
Do we really need to feed GD's shittiest troll?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#18 - 2013-01-24 06:22:29 UTC
Quote:
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