Ships & Modules

read
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1808470#post1808470
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1808468#post1808468
try to search for this stuff - there has been a lot said about this topic already

But to clarify, if you are in a C5 sites or C6 sites, putting in a carrier increases the value of the site, increases the difficulty of the site, and if you do it right (aka, triage), eliminates the need for other logi's, allowing the rest of the pilots to fly with all out dps. Putting a single dread into a site increases the value of the site and the difficulty of the site, just like the carrier, but if you do it right significanlty decreases the time it takes to do a site. So instead of taking an hour per site with carrier+dps, you take 20min for dread+logi+web/paint loki.

Of course, having more capital pilots available makes sites even easier and more rewarding, but if you read the linked threads you will get a much better idea of wtf is going on.

-Arazel

GTFO of your damn tengu's, and realize that their pitiful excuse for DPS isn't needed once you can put a carrier on the field.

Let me put it this way, I had a single triage thanatos on the field. It had 2 remote shield reps, 1 remote cap transfer, and 1 remote armor rep. Offgrid booster running 3 shield and 3 armor links from a claymore with no mindlink in (but maxed skill). I took out fleets of mixed armor and shield tanking ships - I could keep an armor tanking apocalypse up in shield, provided that I didn't fall asleep at the controls. Think about that for a moment.

Why do you use tengu's? Because they can apply dps without actually needing to think about what you are doing, while maintaining a strong RR tank. Guess what, put a triage carrier on the field and you don't need to worry about the tank, just about applying that dps. This opens up a great many options - rohks, maelstroms, vargurs, nightmares, ravens and CNR's, rattlesnakes, scorpion navy issues, shield domi's, shield hyperions, mach's, shield vindi's, slepnirs - hell, you might even be able to keep tank fit naga's and tornado's alive (from an armor perspective, I could keep oracles alive, though that did require armor reps, not shield).

So lets look at this a bit closer. As you are using tengu's, I'm going to assume that you are running with the 5 launcher, 1 LRSR, and i'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you have max skils, 4 CN BCU's, and are shooting CN scourge missiles. The current tengu tops out at 481dps doing this. You know what this is matched by? A rohk with large hybrid turret lvl 5, maxed gunnery skills, using meta 4 425's, and 3 T2 magstabs, firing plain old antimatter, without counting drone dps. Get T2 guns on, and a similar level of pimping, and you can hit almost 700dps from guns alone. And the rohk doesn't even have a damage bonus. Too dumb to train anything but missiles? Guess what, a vanilla raven with t2 cruise missile launchers does 477dps with t2 launchers and t1 missiles, using 4 t2 BCU's. It breaks 700 with missiles if you put scourge fury cruise missiles in, and upgrade to CN BCU's. Again, this is before drones. And you can pimp even more by flying a CNR.

Actually do things properly? A 1200mm fit mach with 3 T2 gyro's and a t2 burst areator hits 639dps with plain old emp L loaded, and drones in. Using faction ammo and faction damage mods bumps that up to 777dps. Using autocannos (viable, but spews ammo) and you jump over 1000dps using 4 faction damage mods, a t2 burst areator, and vanilla t1 ammo. A nightmare can also jump over 1000 gun dps with either tach's or with pulse lasers. A vindi can almost match a nightmare using rails, which if you are cap escalating you should be.

Lastly, lets take a look at these drones. I believe that just about anywhere you go, someone is complaining about sleepers killing drones. This is very true when there are only 1 or 2 people on the field. This is not true once you have a proper small gang, especially if you are using ewar and RR. About the only thing that will primary drones when you have a fleet on the field are the frigates, and even then it isn't like it is instant or anything. Sentries are easily used - just scoop if they are primaried. Fighters are also generally ignored, though rarely one may be primaried. Having your fleet use target painters greatly reduces the chances of this though. Heavies are to fat and slow to be useful, and assign mediums/lights to a drone bunny to swat frigs (or make people actually lock them and attack them with their own drones).

A minimum fleet size that I have used to successfully complete C5 sites was a thanatos and 2 mach's. Its slow, but it is effective - it takes between 40 minutes and an hour to complete the single escalated site like this, after 3 of the sleeper battleships are down you can pop out of triage and launch fighters without worry (most of the time). You might be able to keep ships up without triage, but you really should use it the first few times you toss a carrier on the field. Sticking with shield, and a chimera, you can probably complete sites with the chimera, and 3 reasonably skilled battleship pilots in a similar time frame. You would probably need about 4 of your RR tengu's to match what I was doing with 2 mach's. Also - use the damn fighters on the carrier - if you have carrier lvl 5 like you say, your chimera is going to be doing as much dps as 2 tengu's, minimum, and against sleeper battleships it is far more effective than even sentry drones would be.

-Arazel

In a WH a carrier changes the game completely, you say you RR tengu's wont change anytime soon... your all crazy

Triage carriers in pve aren't there to do dps, they are there to make more shiny things spawn and to rep against that damage until they all go pop.