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Crime & Punishment

 
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of bounty, crimewatch and killrights
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PO3T
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2013-01-21 17:14:05 UTC
Emperor Crash Zues wrote:
do you accept just plain kill contracts without a killright? like if we asked you how much for you to hunt down a target and pod them would you do it for a set price or must there be a bounty on there heads?


The idea behind the new killright mechanics and bounty system was not, to become a ganker myself Smile Hell seeing the results of it, it rather turned me off even more...

Our tragets only consist of people who have a killright on them, and if possible the nice addition of a bounty.
Of course we get some gankers (-10.0 sec stat - no need for killright) from time to time... but their Thrashers a slippery little buggers Lol

But as direct answer: No we do not gank people Blink
PO3T
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2013-01-21 17:20:40 UTC
By the way, I changed the subject...
Primary because the sale/buying of KR ain't the primary reason for this post, but the discussion and elaboration of good ways to use the Retribution mechanics...

...and because the direct buying of KR only works if you have 200 active members in corp/alliance, to ensure the hunt of targets (see my post of 2013.01.20 17:44).
Turgesson
Gorillaz In The Mist
#23 - 2013-01-22 01:09:50 UTC
PO3T wrote:
Arkenai Wyrnspire wrote:
Bounty hunting... Well, I haven't seen it work yet. If you can make it work effectively that would be a good thing, although I can't really see it happening. Good luck trying though!


Just check some of the kills. Being just moderatly active this month I've make 100 kills. This by simply sitting on a gate Cool
I don't know, but to me this looks like "working mechanics". Or let me ask: What is "work effectively" for you? 500 Kills a month? I guess that depends on anyones activity level =)



How can anyone tell if they were killrights or suspect baits? I'm actually just curious if there is a way. I looked at a few of the kills and they look as fishy as a bucket of unwashed hookerpussy.
PO3T
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2013-01-22 12:24:41 UTC
Turgesson wrote:
PO3T wrote:
Arkenai Wyrnspire wrote:
Bounty hunting... Well, I haven't seen it work yet. If you can make it work effectively that would be a good thing, although I can't really see it happening. Good luck trying though!


Just check some of the kills. Being just moderatly active this month I've make 100 kills. This by simply sitting on a gate Cool
I don't know, but to me this looks like "working mechanics". Or let me ask: What is "work effectively" for you? 500 Kills a month? I guess that depends on anyones activity level =)



How can anyone tell if they were killrights or suspect baits? I'm actually just curious if there is a way. I looked at a few of the kills and they look as fishy as a bucket of unwashed hookerpussy.


Well on external sites (eve-kill, battleclinic ect) I guess you don't see that... just ingame (having the issuer of the KR in the upper left corner mentioned).
But if they'd still be suspect to the whole of EVE and undock in ships worth 1 Bill and more, though not being capabable of tanking &%*WTF DPS... these guys better change profession, and fast.
So to get back at your remark: what exactly looks fishy on our kills pls?Roll
Kalim Dabo
Perkone
Caldari State
#25 - 2013-01-22 13:11:04 UTC
Thank you for bringing this service to my attention. I'll start referring all of my victims to you. Good luck in all your endeavors.

everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2013-01-22 15:47:08 UTC
Sitting at the gate.
Brave warriors........................................
Turgesson
Gorillaz In The Mist
#27 - 2013-01-22 15:54:03 UTC
PO3T wrote:
Being just moderatly active this month I've make 100 kills. This by simply sitting on a gate Cool
I don't know, but to me this looks like "working mechanics".


So to get back at your remark: what exactly looks fishy on our kills pls?Roll


Well, you said you made a hundred kills this month using the killright mechanic and just sitting on a gate. The kills I see look like a fleet was involved in a war kill or a bait of some kind with a few outlaw thrashers thrown in.

This one looked legit but falls way short of 100 or a meaningful kill:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=18470384


Sorry for the crappy BC link Eve-kill is wonky at the moment...again.
PO3T
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2013-01-22 16:22:36 UTC  |  Edited by: PO3T
Alright... I get it.
You clearly have not understood the new mechanics. Please read the Dev blogs, that saves me time explaining.
I have no idea how such kills could be realized in wardecs.
If it would be station baiting: the shiny kills would be ridiculous... But I guess that would work as well... Just strange that

http://blackdawnrising.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15876840

Niarja has not station Lol

But good Idea anyway... Would be nice if the KR stuff (who was the issuer) would show on eve-kill, battleclinic ect.

And to anwser to the above linked kill: that guy was a noob. A KR kill as well though (no idea what he did to earn it)
Turgesson
Gorillaz In The Mist
#29 - 2013-01-23 00:27:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Turgesson
I understand how they work just fine. It's a shame there is no way to show if some bewb really did go derpin around in a vigilant fitted to the nines with a killright.

What I really mean is, if I were in your shoes rather than using kilrights I would use the global flag to get dummies to take a can at a gate then decloak the legion, point and let my buddies whore the mail. Do you have somethin juicy showing some rat damage that got plucked out of a mission? Show me a good one like that and I'll drive an alt up there to see the gate thing for myself then come here and bow to the gods of killrights.

Decent kills one way or the other though. I just have a hard time believing the majority of those are KRs rather than suspects.



Edit:
Here's an example of what I mean by fishy like hookerpussy. The guy has no recorded kills and some odd cargo.

http://blackdawnrising.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15852569


Good on ya for this one but...he has nothing to trigger a KR in the last 30 I can see unless evekill is borked and not showing stuff.

http://blackdawnrising.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15803874
PO3T
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2013-01-23 11:11:51 UTC
Again, I'm pretty sure you didn't read the Dev blogs to the end.
Its not required to kill someone in high sec... The attempt alone is sufficient to issue a killright. Those of course would not show on the killboards, hence you can look as long as you want.

Your sentence is incorrect from the start... or correct, depending on how you look at it ^^ When a killright is activated, the target turns suspect to everyone in space. So in this point you are correct. The targets were all suspect Blink (through a killright though).

Odd cargo can be shown by the way, when the killmail is broken I think (the fits show up in the cargo - no idea why).

Quote:
The Kill Rights system allows you to get revenge on another player who has performed a criminal act upon you. This means shooting or otherwise aggressing any of your property in high security space (ships, wrecks, cans), or shooting or otherwise aggressing your pod in low security space.
Turgesson
Gorillaz In The Mist
#31 - 2013-01-23 14:21:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Turgesson
I somehow knew you were gonna say those guys took a pop shot at someone in high sec. With those two it's very hard to believe. I'll give ya the benifit of the doubt at least, I guess it is possible they took shots on one gate and finished the gank when it jumped to the other side. That does rob a killmail from the guys on the short side of the gate, correct?

I see some quality there that is no doubt a killright but not 100. I looked around while sitting in the penalty box on a gcc timer and I'd say the number is around 1/4 of that.

Run a tape next time. I'm sure we would all love to see a double derp of that magnitude to not only fail the gank kill but to then load up an orca and get smoked on the killright.
PO3T
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2013-01-23 14:48:10 UTC
Turgesson wrote:
I somehow knew you were gonna say those guys took a pop shot at someone in high sec. With those two it's very hard to believe. I'll give ya the benifit of the doubt at least, I guess it is possible they took shots on one gate and finished the gank when it jumped to the other side. That does rob a killmail from the guys on the short side of the gate, correct?

I see some quality there that is no doubt a killright but not 100. I looked around while sitting in the penalty box on a gcc timer and I'd say the number is around 1/4 of that.

Run a tape next time. I'm sure we would all love to see a double derp of that magnitude to not only fail the gank kill but to then load up an orca and get smoked on the killright.


Am I completly missing your point here? We are not presend when those guys do, whatever they do. I have no clue what they did to get a killright issued (I am left with guessing)
I only can state what we do:

We sit on gates. One pair of eyes on each side. If a target with a public KR warps to the gate, we activate it, jump to the other side and tackle/kill the target on the other side.
Whats there so hard to understand?

If you look closely on our killboard you will see that 95% of our kills are either made in Madirmilire or Niarja. Niarja has no station. And Madirmilire has only 3 stations with minimal traffic. So station baiting in these system is either impossible, or at the very least improbable.

If you then continue the investigation and check out our war history... there are almost none in the past 30 days. Surely not enough to cover all the different kills. And ganking would be ridiculous... why would I gank in something bigger then a tier 3 BC? (and it wouldn't fit my sec stat).
The only ones on our KB not having been activated KR's are usually the logi ships (cuz they didn't realize yet: remote rep someone being in an engagement -> suspect flag), the global criminal ones (usually being in a thrasher) and this guy

http://blackdawnrising.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15829690

with his two logis (tried to bait - succeeded till our fleet came in to play).
EVERYTHING else is KR. So if you try to discredit the mechanics, please do so, but at least try to prove it, not just "estimate" what kind of kills could be done with a KR or not.
PO3T
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2013-01-23 15:12:26 UTC
Turgesson wrote:


Good on ya for this one but...he has nothing to trigger a KR in the last 30 I can see unless evekill is borked and not showing stuff.

http://blackdawnrising.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15803874


Forgot to add:
Not everyone has his API added to the KB... if killer and victim are not API verfified, and none of the two post the kill/loss manually, it might happen that a kill does not show up.

As to the above killmail: lots of people are not aware that there are ways to see the killrights in space. True, the overview is broken (the colortag does not show) but rest assured, we see your killrights anyway. If he was aware of the killright or not I am not sure.. all I can say, is he tried to cloak before we got him, so I guess he thought he might get to amarr, no matter with or without KR.
Solomar Espersei
Quality Assurance
#34 - 2013-01-23 21:00:45 UTC
Great to see someone having some fun down in good ol' Niarja. What percentage of kills would you say are publically available KRs requiring activation? Also, do you find that targets occasionally get away before you can get them pointed due to the cumbersome nature of activating the KR?

It's a fun new mechanic and I'm delighted to see someone drumming up some business using it.

Quality Assurance Recruiting intrepid explorers and BlOps/Cov Ops combat enthusiasts
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