EVE General Discussion

I have to reluctantly agree.

I think the saving grace is that there are apparently plans for more frequent "Open" tournaments with lower requirements for team entry.

Given the nature of the EvE Universe I think that this is probably as close as we should come to an arena system.

As I pointed out in another thread, Open Tournaments also have the perks of being streamed and having prizes involved... which is only desireable because they have CCP oversight in a controlled environment outside what we consider to be the normal EvE universe.

In other words if this were something that anyone could do at any time there would be serious drawbacks, but since they are more along the lines of occasional organized events it allows the concept to function.

Actually, no. It doesn't change that at all. You may want to reread the blog on the dueling system.

Except that wardecs are a terrible mechanic for spontaneous, 1 time fights. 24 hour lead up and 50m price tag for a single 1 off? Also the agreements you mention already exist in exactly the same way in the duel system and wardecs since those agreements are up to player engagement and enforcement, not the in game mechanics, for both.

As EVE becomes more popular, we can expect the influx of folks with ideas like this. Many have only played one other MMO which was geared toward the more....simple.

Instanced PvP, and it would have to be to be consensual, would spoil any immersion and just generally be lame. Oh hey gonna stop playing and go duel now.

WTF....

This and "let us grind SP" or "Let us train more than one toon" are unfortunately signs that new players are logging on for better or worse.

You sound like someone who has never fought other pilots in EVE.

You just mentioned quite possibly the only good aspect of war decs. These things are not the problem. Wars aren't spontanous and have a 24 hour waiting period to ensure everyone gets a chance to prepare for it. This is a good thing. It allows for negotiations, bringing in allies, espionage.... ship purchases, fitting, putting together a plan. Its the only consentual part of it and what differentiates wars from "unplanned encounters". The 50 million price tag is to ensure that unless you get some kills and are fighting an enemy worth fighting, you will lose ISK on the deal. This is to ensure that there is less douchbagery and it has gone a long way to ensure that, because again, wars shouldn't be "ganks" or "griefs", they should be engagements where both sides have the means to fight it. War decing some newbie corp that flys around in 1 mill ISK Merlins should be unprofitable and it is thanks to the 50 mill price tag, so the mechanic is working as intended.

We need a dueling system to resolve the whole one vs. one consentual **** fights, tournaments and such. But the worry here is that once this is in the game, it will become a way to eliminate non-consentual pvp brick by brick, because it gives carebears the execuse that "hey dueling works, just use that if you want to fight"... This is not how Eve should work. Dueling is nescessary and could be a lot of fun. I can think of lots of great uses for it. But it should never be a replacement for anything that already exists.

If this ever does happen, I will have to delete my quote and replace it to say "**** Eve". Cause this would quite literly make Eve officially suck. The words war and consent should never be used in the same sentence.

Why do you need it then?

It takes a bit of historical knowledge to understand the connection and I understand not every Eve player has lived under the CCP regime long enough to understand the paranoia, but lets just put it this way. Each time CCP has made a change in this game, it has taken a step towards eliminating Eve's sandbox. While Dueling may on the surface just seem like an interesting new mechanic (which I agree is not threathning), its vital for Eve players to voice the fact that IF this mechanic is added, it is with absolutly no intention, plan (intended or otherwise) being added as "preperation" for the elimination of other mechanics that do "similiar" things, like for example a pirate trapping someone on a gate to blow them up. One is unconsentual PvP which is the bloodline and single most important aspect of Eve without which Eve is no longer a game nore resembeles anything even approaching it and the other is just a playful mechanic to screw around with that has no serious relevance to the games core philosophy. Kind of like the difference between fighting a corp mate for fun and hunting down a war target and making them bleed ISK. Both are PvP, one is irrelevant, the other is EvE!

Another words.. dueling system.. no problem.. Its neither useful or important, but sure why the hell not, its a feature. The moment however that you add it "someone" and by someone I mean the majority of all carebears will shout in a single unified tantram that "Hey why do we have piracy? If you want to PvP just use the new duel system". Its coming, you can count on it like money in the bank and it will be the next movement in Eve among many to slowly but surely make Eve my little pony dress up online.

This is the fear because as a Eve player, this is the only game out there that I would consider worthy of my gaming time. This is why people are a bit sensitive and rightfully so because this is EXACTLY what will transpire all of 30 seconds after the patch is made to Tranquility. The forums will be flooded with carebear tears demanding the elimination of piracy, unconsentual warefare and all the other things one might find in a game formally known as EvE.

So yes. People are overly sensitive and your right, nothing has happened yet. Eve players have been burned many times before however and this is where the paranoia comes from.

Actually it does affect; it's a theme park game mechanic added in a sandbox setting.
What's the difference?
A sandobox mechanic do not give to the players a premade outcome but provide tools to build their own.

So in a theme park, for istance, you may have a quest asking you to escort an NPC from point X to point Y and the gameplay will develop along a predeterminated trail with a premade outcome.

In a sandbox you don't have this, you may have a corp mate asking you to scout his hauler from system X to system Y, the whole gameplay develops from players real interactions and needs. And the outcome is not predterminated just cause third paarties can interfere/interact.

In our case the need to set up a duel, to find a way to do it, to grant a safe area for it and so on are all things players have to work to set up; all this working produce game contents. Not only for the 2 involved in the duel but also for others.

Duelling/Arena systems on the countrary clear all the this and push (cause is an easy shortcut) a premade outcome to something that, anyway, you can already do now.

The concern here is noit the duelling system itself but the fact that devs seems to not see this difference or to not care for it, preferring to overwrite/replace sandbox logic with theme park mechanics (more easy for them to manage).