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Propose : let blue and NIP null be not profitable.

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Anthar Thebess
#1 - 2013-01-23 13:24:55 UTC
So let kill the NIP and blue null by making it a unprofitable thing!

Currently you don't attack your neighbour moons - as he do the same and you both loose profit.
You both don't touch your "ratting" grounds for the same reason.
For the terms of making money in null NIP and blue - is the best thing now.

Let change this:
Killing more rats in one constellation - makes it fewer in a neighbour ones ( and in overview you will see " how many ship for reinforcements where " where sent)
At the same time large number of rats killed in one constellation reduces fuel usage of POS towers and increase the planetary material yeld , but at the same time decreases it in all neighbour constellations and increase fuel usage on pos tower. ( As in main systems NPC is occupied by a constant fights , in all other focuses more on planetary rides in order to get the resources needed for war)

On the regional level - when "ratting" reaches certain level there is a big possibility to "spawn" incursion in a neighbour contested region. ( Because of the intense fights npc faction decides to rebuild their supplies by raiding neighbour region)
At this point All Moon mining is halted till the end of the incursion.

As for the pos number - bigger number of POS increase the number rats in this system/constellation at the cost of number of rats in other.

This way the worst thing that you can have ... is your neighbour ;)
You have to "fight him" if you want have stable isk income ;)
You have to reduce the number of his POS, to increase rats in your system, and reduce POS fuel consumption.

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ISD TYPE40
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2013-01-23 13:26:04 UTC
Thread moved from GD to F&I - ISD Type40.

[b]ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
Whitehound
#3 - 2013-01-23 13:30:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Whitehound
You are only trying to force players to fight.

Learn to accept that a blue donut is a possible outcome of the game. Fight it with spaceships, with guerilla warfare, metagame it, awox corps and alliances, steal assets, etc..

And further: post your ideas into Ideas and Features and Ideas Discussions please.

Edit: ISD is on boosters ...

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Anthar Thebess
#4 - 2013-01-23 13:42:02 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
You are only trying to force players to fight.

Learn to accept that a blue donut is a possible outcome of the game. Fight it with spaceships, with guerilla warfare, metagame it, awox corps and alliances, steal assets, etc..

And further: post your ideas into Ideas and Features and Ideas Discussions please.

Edit: ISD is on boosters ...


If im not mistaking.
High sec - is for people that don't want PVP . There is a concord, police etc.
Low sec is for Pirate PVP and factional warfare.
Nullsec is meant to be focused on PVP.

So what is the problem?


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De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-01-23 14:10:19 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:

So what is the problem?


The problem is you trying to shoehorn the rest of us into your (very limited) idea of what each region of the game should be.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Anthar Thebess
#6 - 2013-01-23 14:18:06 UTC
i'm not forcing any body to any thing.
Read other posts - null is broken, and it getting worst every day.
In null there are many things that ccp didn't anticipated - and we are talking only about negative aspects.

Eve is a grate game, but current ,blue bloobing, situation is killing it.

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Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#7 - 2013-01-23 15:47:00 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
i'm not forcing any body to any thing.
Read other posts - null is broken, and it getting worst every day.
In null there are many things that ccp didn't anticipated - and we are talking only about negative aspects.

Eve is a grate game, but current ,blue bloobing, situation is killing it.



well, you could of course suggest to your alliance leadership to reset the standings to your neighbours.
that's what alliances do if they get bored.

your proposal would only lead to powerblocks taking surrounding regions and then share the region in the middle for ratting and let the other two regions go to waste, as there is plenty of room in 0.0. as there will be incursions and little to no rats in the "waste"-regions all the time new alliances will have an even harder time getting some space worthy of claiming.

incentives should made in a way that maximum numbers of possible targets equals maximum profit. disrupt the alliance, not its space. take the profit from another's industry, but darn! we need industry first... ;)
Apostrof Ahashion
Doomheim
#8 - 2013-01-23 16:41:20 UTC
The only thing broken in null is the gayest bromance ever between two largest power blocks. And with the constant nerfs to capitals the only thing that matters now is how many players you have, so forget about moving them out of their space, their blob is too powerful. Hopefully they will grow a pair and go on to conquer the entire 0,0 space or do something manly soon.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-01-23 17:12:47 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
You are only trying to force players to fight.

Learn to accept that a blue donut is a possible outcome of the game. Fight it with spaceships, with guerilla warfare, metagame it, awox corps and alliances, steal assets, etc..

And further: post your ideas into Ideas and Features and Ideas Discussions please.

Edit: ISD is on boosters ...

Forcing people to fight is a good thing, if a blue donut is the easiest option then it will be so.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-01-23 17:14:12 UTC
Apostrof Ahashion wrote:
The only thing broken in null is the gayest bromance ever between two largest power blocks. And with the constant nerfs to capitals the only thing that matters now is how many players you have, so forget about moving them out of their space, their blob is too powerful. Hopefully they will grow a pair and go on to conquer the entire 0,0 space or do something manly soon.


Instead of mattering how many capitals you have.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Apostrof Ahashion
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-01-23 18:09:55 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
Apostrof Ahashion wrote:
The only thing broken in null is the gayest bromance ever between two largest power blocks. And with the constant nerfs to capitals the only thing that matters now is how many players you have, so forget about moving them out of their space, their blob is too powerful. Hopefully they will grow a pair and go on to conquer the entire 0,0 space or do something manly soon.


Instead of mattering how many capitals you have.


Having money, skilled players and developed industry should > blob of cheap t1 ships.
Anthar Thebess
#12 - 2013-01-23 18:13:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:

well, you could of course suggest to your alliance leadership to reset the standings to your neighbours.
that's what alliances do if they get bored.

But we have enemies in every direction ;)
Our + are almost the same for years, and i mean years. Some new alliance where forged , but as 90% of them come from the old + alliance they also received a +

HBC offered us + , few times even, and we responded to this by attacking their systems, and ships.
We fight them whole the time ;) But we are becoming the victim of our success - as we are ONLY TRUE enemy.
We don't have NIP or any + to CFC/HBC, and when ANY "planed" engagement is taking a place we have 400-600 HBC pilots in NPC space - yet most of the times we manage to kill more ships in case of ships and ISK.
But this becomes nonsense.
Playing eve have becomes a playing with LAG, and nonsense of bloob.
I have nothing to having battles 100 ours 200 enemies.... but when local reaches jita local - this is no longer a game.

Something have to "kill" this blue NIP.

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Draconus Lofwyr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-01-23 19:18:31 UTC
no, i don't see any way this could be abused at all.
like its not likely that some group owns a whole region and decides to focus ratting in their high value moon systems in order to increase the yield of moon harvesting while reducing pos costs at the expense of the neighboring const that have crap all for resources?

moon mining is fundamentally broken, as is sov.

coalitions and alliances having huge swatches of space is the problem, deal with spread and you will deal with the main issue. return resource harvesting of all kinds to the end user, remove moon mining from the corp/alliance and limit space held by corp alliance to key space and make them have to spread from a flag home system and the more you spread, the more it costs.
Hakan MacTrew
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-01-23 19:31:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakan MacTrew
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
You are only trying to force players to fight.

Learn to accept that a blue donut is a possible outcome of the game. Fight it with spaceships, with guerilla warfare, metagame it, awox corps and alliances, steal assets, etc..

And further: post your ideas into Ideas and Features and Ideas Discussions please.

Edit: ISD is on boosters ...


If im not mistaking.
High sec - is for people that don't want PVP . There is a concord, police etc.
Low sec is for Pirate PVP and factional warfare.
Nullsec is meant to be about creating an empire.

So what is the problem?

Fixed that for you.

I'm a Larper, and the system we play has several thousand participants. We wanted more PvP because everything was too structured around PvE. So plot created forced PvP fights, and guess what. They sucked.

Force PvP on people and they will find a way around it. They will stage fights with spreadsheets
of what needs to die on each side. The blue donut will continue with really boring set fights.
It will suck even more than it does now.

Montolio taking time to cool off has probably saved the blue donut for now. Depending on what you believe, he either **** himself when he realised that he probably would lose everything because none of his allies would hold their ground and they would beg to keep their stuff. GSF would roll through test and they would end up giving HBC territories to some other pet. Or, he realised that this would mean the end of GFs with his buddy's and decided he needed time to.cool off. Who knows. I was kind of looking forward to watching a war between the two biggest alliances in New Eden. The devastation would have made industry very profitable for quite a while. Ah well. Maybe another time.

I digress. Trying to force PvP in null by forcing PvE is really stupid. Forcing people to do anything in the sandbox is stupid. Forcing your will upon others is kind of part of the sandbox, but then so is doing whatever you want.

The donut is part of how EvE has evolved. It is there because people like keeping what they work hard for and do not want to risk it unless they really have to. It's also there because the most charismatic orators make the best front men for an alliance. Combine that with strategic minds and you have yourselves some dangerous men that are constantly watching each other for signs of weakness while also watching out for each other. If the top dogs of each alliance took a few weeks off at the same time, the blue donut would be a ring of fire.

That's my 0.02 isk anyway. I could just be talking out of my ass.

Friends
Anthar Thebess
#15 - 2013-01-23 20:17:17 UTC
Every body rat, in some way.
And if you don't rat then still you will not have any issue that there will be fewer rats in your system.
Im not saying that "my" suggestion is perfect. I say that is some way to brake this blue null NIP.

How.
I wonder how long it will take to "dissable" some tech moons because of invasion.
How long one ratting neighbor will be happy from "good" performance of his blue ally ... and empty belts.

This will force in null something that should be normal as hell - burn every thing in sight! not blue it!

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

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Hakan MacTrew
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-01-24 09:45:46 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Every body rat, in some way.
And if you don't rat then still you will not have any issue that there will be fewer rats in your system.
Im not saying that "my" suggestion is perfect. I say that is some way to brake this blue null NIP.

How.
I wonder how long it will take to "dissable" some tech moons because of invasion.
How long one ratting neighbor will be happy from "good" performance of his blue ally ... and empty belts.

This will force in null something that should be normal as hell - burn every thing in sight! not blue it!

Read my post again. Political spreadsheeting will beat any system you care to throw at the coalitions, because that's what they do.

Friends
Anthar Thebess
#17 - 2013-01-24 09:56:31 UTC
But this is not good, either "not anticipated" by CCP.
Next thing that was meant to work differently.

To be serious - tech moons are bad, but ok , you can conquer them ( i know i theory) but when one big boting empire (HBC) dictates terms ...
To many times killed a botting ship that was hitting rats ... while tackled and slayed by a gang.
The funniest thing was a time when we have to kill rats shooting shoot our ceptors.
Guess what , the "non boting HBC pilot" begin to salvage them ...

I guess someone forgot to change its overview.

You say null is for building empire - i totaly agree.
But null is not for one BLUE - NIP.

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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#18 - 2013-01-24 11:20:53 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:

But null is not for one BLUE - NIP.



Just so you know: HBC and CFC reset one another.
Anthar Thebess
#19 - 2013-01-24 11:52:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
Read all connected topics ... , check your accounts in HBC/CFC :
This is reset just closing access to JB - sadly , we where fighting goon roams in Stain.
No major engagements, no one is allowed to touch SOV, Poses etc.
No hunting for capitals.
Two biggest coalitions will roam each other with a rupture gangs.
"BLUE NIP"


Edit
I didn't noticed that you are from CFC.
I ask seriously - what you think about a system that will force you to attack someone , because if you dont - your nullsec operations will be in danger?

I'm not say - in a way i described , but in this sense.

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HVAC Repairman
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2013-01-24 12:06:39 UTC
winning wars through pve, brilliant

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