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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Rebalancing Velocities

Author
Sarge Misfit
Excelsior Unlimited
#1 - 2013-01-23 02:46:12 UTC
I find it to be very odd that larger vessels are so much slower than smaller. Odd because the constraints on velocity on a planet, like Earth, do not exist in space. A ship in water has to cope with the drag of the water against its hull. The more surface area of the hull, the greater the drag, and the more power necessary to push the ship. The more power, the larger the engines and the more fuel they use. Which means you need a larger ship, which has a larger surface area in contact with the water. Eventually, its a case of diminishing returns, where any increase in the size of engines results in only a miniscule increase in speed.

But, in space, drag is eliminated. The main determination of engine size is how much inertia to overcome. You could put a Destroyer's engines in a Titan and the Titan would eventually get up to a velocity similar to the destroyer. Eventually. A very long eventuality, in fact. But larger ships also have larger engines. More thrust means more acceleration, not more velocity. Velocity is determined by the amount of thrust over a period of time. There are some issues with torque and such, so larger vessels would accelerate slower than smaller, but they could get up to the same speed.

And that's where my thoughts are at. An upper limit that is the same for all vessels. But different rates of acceleration depending on the mass of the vessel. And perhaps create a means by which pilots can change the engines in their vessels, though at a loss of other fixtures. Less cargo space, fewer hardpoints, small rigs, things like that.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2013-01-23 02:48:53 UTC
EVE is actually a game about submarines.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#3 - 2013-01-23 03:24:00 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
WTB triage carrier that can go at 6k m/sec like my Ares. Or sieged dreadnoughts that go at 2k m/sec and do a "drive-by" of a POS. Lol

Yet another example where realism must take a back seat to ensure game balance.
Fey Ivory
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-01-23 03:40:53 UTC
OP...

what you say is true when it comes to mass and space... i shall admitt i am abit out on thin ice here, but since the big ships have some kind of artificial gravity, its quite possible that gravity be like some dampening or counter force to and trust aplied to the opject with artificial grivtity, its pure speculationsfrom my side, but as fluffers earlier said, its game mechanic balance and there you have your "meta fysical" explination ;P
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#5 - 2013-01-23 04:13:47 UTC
I think the fluff explained it as "the warp drives cause local gravity fields to have a more adverse effect than normal" etc. etc, which causes it to be similar to flying in a body of water, or as a previous post so eloquently said, we're playing submarines online.
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#6 - 2013-01-23 09:08:32 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
EVE is actually a game about submarines.

and let's paint em all yellow Big smile
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#7 - 2013-01-23 12:02:27 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
WTB triage carrier that can go at 6k m/sec like my Ares. Or sieged dreadnoughts that go at 2k m/sec and do a "drive-by" of a POS. Lol

Yet another example where realism must take a back seat to ensure game balance.



black ops cloaked would be quite fun as well.



But this basically. it be return of nano, the BS edition (no pun intended).
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#8 - 2013-01-23 12:34:28 UTC
Sarge Misfit wrote:
I find it to be very odd that larger vessels are so much slower than smaller. Odd because the constraints on velocity on a planet, like Earth, do not exist in space. A ship in water has to cope with the drag of the water against its hull. The more surface area of the hull, the greater the drag, and the more power necessary to push the ship. The more power, the larger the engines and the more fuel they use. Which means you need a larger ship, which has a larger surface area in contact with the water. Eventually, its a case of diminishing returns, where any increase in the size of engines results in only a miniscule increase in speed.

But, in space, drag is eliminated. The main determination of engine size is how much inertia to overcome. You could put a Destroyer's engines in a Titan and the Titan would eventually get up to a velocity similar to the destroyer. Eventually. A very long eventuality, in fact. But larger ships also have larger engines. More thrust means more acceleration, not more velocity. Velocity is determined by the amount of thrust over a period of time. There are some issues with torque and such, so larger vessels would accelerate slower than smaller, but they could get up to the same speed.

And that's where my thoughts are at. An upper limit that is the same for all vessels. But different rates of acceleration depending on the mass of the vessel. And perhaps create a means by which pilots can change the engines in their vessels, though at a loss of other fixtures. Less cargo space, fewer hardpoints, small rigs, things like that.



Like said before, Eve happens in space water.


Why do you think all the planets/stations are stationary? They all stopped moving ages ago due to friction!

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Griffin Omanid
Knights of the Zodiac
#9 - 2013-01-23 12:59:25 UTC
What about the idea, the big ships are so slow cause if f.e. a BS drive with 6 km/s it needs the orbit of a planet to do a swing-by manoeuvre, for a simple change of directions...

But maybe the devs were just to much influenced by Star Wars, where the Mon Calamari cruisers and star destroyer are quit lame, unlike a Corellian frigate or fighters.
Sarge Misfit
Excelsior Unlimited
#10 - 2013-01-23 15:56:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarge Misfit
Well, as I said, its odd, but I didn't say I couldn't handle it Smile

But a couple of thoughts given the replies ...

Is the warp field always active? I've no issues with the warp drive/speed. I think of that as being our equivalent of "Impulse Drive". Its the nonWarp, or thrusters and their effects that I find to be odd.

Regarding "fly-by blasting" well, it certainly would add a new dynamic to combat. But also keep in mind that the bigger the ship, the longer to slow down and return for a second shot. That could prove to be a huge weakness in that tactic as the smaller ships could get up to speed much faster, catch up to the fly-by and do their own blasting.

All-in-all, I bow to the necessity of game mechanics and balancing.

*heads off for breakfast humming "We all live in a yellow battleship ..."
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#11 - 2013-01-23 18:07:01 UTC
EVE does not use rocket propulsion as we think of it.


The ships are always stationary, and the universe is moved around them. This is why when you shut your drives down, your ship coasts to a stop. In a sense we are overcoming drag on larger ships, because the universe is increasingly resistant to being moved around a larger mass. It's also very strechy, which is why multiple ships can be going in all directions at the same time, space is putty in the hands of our drive engineers.