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Guess what? Solo players ARE the majority in EVE.

First post
Author
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#161 - 2013-01-22 19:01:34 UTC
Starden Arnolles wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Jayson Kassis wrote:
Karrl Tian wrote:
This. Despite all that you hear about the difficulty for new players in this game, there's actually more use for them in EVE than WoW. New players can contribute to their corp even when all they have are starter ships and basic skills, because someone will always need an extra scanner/salvager/tackler/hauler versus "level up over the next month, then maybe we'll give you a spot on our raid/arena team."


You're so clueless it hurts. In WoW you depend on others to earn the best gear in the game. There is no alternative. In EvE, you can buy all the best stuff in the game operating solo.

In WoW, you have more things to do at the beginning of the game and at the end of it. The only difference is EvE gives off the illusion that it's more hardcore by making your skills passively increase and making simple chores like trading, mining, or PI networking tedious as possible. I play EvE for those reasons but lets not pretend that EvE players are a more hardcore group. They just have more patients and better attention spans or prefer the sci-fi over the fantasy genre.



In WoW everything gets replaced by the next group of levels, meaning that if you level 15 times a day, you have already found 0 use for that armor you got as a quest reward.

In Eve, everything is used throughout your entire career. From the t1 frig to the officer afterburner. And your skills help everything. In WoW, your "skill points" are for the most a requirement to move on to the next and generally won't use half the stuff you are REQUIRED to use.

Please do not compare WoW to Eve.

Also keep in mind if you die in WoW, you get your corpse. There is no loss. In Eve, well, you lose your hull and for the most part, most of your modules. That by itself was pretty hardcore.

The hardest thing I faced in WoW, was the risk of losing my 2700 arena rating in my 2s team (pre 3.0 at the time), which was e-peen only.


In WoW you have a handful of developers, who insist on making so many changes so often to classes and talent specifications, that you inevitably end up having to relearn your class periodically, and with a different mechanically playing character than the one you originally invested it.

As an extremely hardcore veteran of WoW with achievements across the board to reflect it, I left because of that, and I came here. The "cook", Ghostcrawler, told us to leave if we did not like his "cooking". I and many others did as he suggested.

I am a new player here, only in the game since about 5 weeks ago. I did have the good fortune to join a good corp early on, which speaks well of its willingness to be a mentor to a brand new player. I hope in time to prove to have been a good investment.

I post from that perspective. I like the daunting learning curve this game presents, and I expect to be here for the forseeable future. I already have a second account.

But the learning curve and entry level of this game makes the gap between truly new and veteran players amazingly wide. That high barrier is more daunting and mentally demanding imho than the entry barriers in WoW. In fact, one reason for so many solo players here may be that very barrier, and that by the time you become attractive to most corporations, you are already set in your solo playstyle.

I would not want the game to be simplified. But I suggest that finding more ways to get new players integrated into the game faster, and of more value to good corporations quicker, would be good for the game.



Yea, that learning curve seperates a lot of WoW players from Eve when the playerbase is unyielding in their acceptance that instant gratification does not come without effort.

Once you realize that you need to LEARN things here, it starts getting easier and easier. Eve has shoddy marketing (it really does) because Eve is centered around a certain type of gamer. WoW and ALOT of other FOTM MMOs are marketed with way more depth to appeal to a much larger audience, and tries to cater to the majority of which is usually the lukewarm types.

It's our fault (humans) really since we decided it was more fun to be de sensitized to things that should be respected, and personal boundaries crossed and forgotten.

As such, this "cold harsh eve" is more of a platform to JUSTIFY being a douchebag instead of explaining WHY eve is so cold and harsh.

Ah well, still a fun game =)

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.

Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#162 - 2013-01-22 19:01:52 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Bolsak wrote:


Actually, I've done level 5 with my last corp. The one thing that adds to this is that most if not all level 5 missions are in low sec making you sort of finding a happy medium between mission boats and PVP boats or have a crew flying security. The risk versus reward doesn’t always work out for small gangs.

But even with level 5 missions, the actual mission and rewards do not scale. If they are giving 15K LP, then that LP is split amongst all the pilots in the fleet; whether it’s 2 players or 8.

It's probably intended as a way to prevent the over farming of missions.

That's not to say they couldn't improve the rewards some. But if they start structuring rewards based on grup size you run the risk of encountering a situation where groups are farming it for more gain then they should; even if they maintained the split.

Instead you get the advantage of being able to do it faster and easier with 8 guys, and then move on to another. You might makes as much doing 2 mission in the same time it takes a smaller group to do 1.

It's not perfect, but it still rewards the small group for assuming mor risk and effort through higher individual pay, and the large group can clear more, faster, with less risk and effort but a smaller individual pay.


In other words, people would figure out a way to turn it into the new pre-nerf Incursions or pre-nerf Faction Warfare lol, with all it's game economy destroying isk fountaining.

People seem incapable of learning from the past it seems to me.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#163 - 2013-01-22 19:04:08 UTC
Bolsak wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Bolsak wrote:
If CCP really wants to encourage players to play together, I would think that they’d make missions that are for fleet members only and make missions rewards scale with the size of the fleet. This would help players create some solidarity amongst each other and also learn each other’s playing habits. Maybe make missions that require certain roles like ECM, EWAR, tackling, booster…

Most corps that I’ve been in that are based in hi-sec fall apart due to people doing their own thing in high-sec. If you can do level 4 missions solo, why would you split your LP, ISK and faction standings with someone else? It ends up being a bunch of people playing solo in a corporation or alliance… maybe talking on TS or typing in alliance…

Do more rats spawn in null with more pilots in the area? Does scanning down a site and completing it in a fleet give more rewards? Do wormholes become more dangerous with bigger fleets?

I know, no one cares about solo players, care bears and missioners… Plus, there are already fleet (booster) bonuses in place for miners and all other aspects of combat.



Level 5 missions are something I think you haven't tried.

Also, when you fleet up for missions, you don't want to just use 3 of the same roles. If you want to fleet up for L4 missions to maximize isk, have a bs, a cruiser, and a salvager. It goes very fast and brings in a lot more money than a solo missioner flying 1 ship does.


Actually, I've done level 5 with my last corp. The one thing that adds to this is that most if not all level 5 missions are in low sec making you sort of finding a happy medium between mission boats and PVP boats or have a crew flying security. The risk versus reward doesn’t always work out for small gangs.

But even with level 5 missions, the actual mission and rewards do not scale. If they are giving 15K LP, then that LP is split amongst all the pilots in the fleet; whether it’s 2 players or 8.



If you want to ramp up your isk in comparison and are not afraid of fleet/group play, might I suggest incursions then. Plenty of social, and lots more isk than L4 mission running. Also more challenging, and requires you to be more alert.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.

Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#164 - 2013-01-22 20:48:56 UTC
Don't trust anyone.

That's Eve rule #1. That's why I eventually became a solo player. I found out the hard way that, in fact, you really can't trust anyone.

Shrug...seems like a bit of a stupid moto for a supposedly multiplayer coop game.

I've been much happier since going solo though....been about four years now.
Dave Stark
#165 - 2013-01-22 20:55:01 UTC
impressive, this thread is still going.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#166 - 2013-01-22 20:56:55 UTC
Ana Vyr wrote:
Don't trust anyone.

That's Eve rule #1. That's why I eventually became a solo player. I found out the hard way that, in fact, you really can't trust anyone.

Shrug...seems like a bit of a stupid moto for a supposedly multiplayer coop game.

I've been much happier since going solo though....been about four years now.


Who told you it was a "multiplayer coop game"?

CCP sure didn't.

Massively multiplayer online game says nothing about grouping. It means when I play, It'll be online; with other people.

I expet INTERACTION when I play an online game.

It says nothing about the CONTENT.


It's your choice to group or not in EVE. There isn't a single mechanic that makes it so you can't.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#167 - 2013-01-22 21:13:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaju Enki
I play sandbox mmo-rpg's games since the great Ultima Online. And i have always been solo. That's the role i enjoy playing.

For me, playing solo has nothing to do with single player game content, i love to play with other people, but not in a cooperative mode, i enjoy the conflict, other players are my opponents, they are my content.

The Tears Must Flow

Not Politically Correct
Doomheim
#168 - 2013-01-22 22:31:05 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:



If you want to ramp up your isk in comparison and are not afraid of fleet/group play, might I suggest incursions then. Plenty of social, and lots more isk than L4 mission running. Also more challenging, and requires you to be more alert.


I think that is a little misleading. If you want to join an Incursion fleet you have to have a shiney ship, and fleet members who understand Eve terminology.

For instance: ' Vulture pilot, FC - E, seeks shield fleet'. The response? "Not enough DPS".

Doh.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#169 - 2013-01-22 22:38:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Murk Paradox
Not Politically Correct wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:



If you want to ramp up your isk in comparison and are not afraid of fleet/group play, might I suggest incursions then. Plenty of social, and lots more isk than L4 mission running. Also more challenging, and requires you to be more alert.


I think that is a little misleading. If you want to join an Incursion fleet you have to have a shiney ship, and fleet members who understand Eve terminology.

For instance: ' Vulture pilot, FC - E, seeks shield fleet'. The response? "Not enough DPS".

Doh.



My first incursion was at 3 months in a badly fit Abaddon with some of the higher FCs in TDF. They knew where I was coming from and accepted me. Most gave me props for even trying at 3 months instead of 1yr+.

But yes, there are a lot of divas that require all t2, and by all means, enjoy waiting around for 2 hours to form even a VG fleet if you will have such strict guidelines for a PUG anyways.

That first incursion we cleared 200m each (after tipping the OGB) in short order, which was by lots the most impressionable "first" I have ever gotten in Eve.

All it took was for me to speak up and ask advice. I was given a fleet invite (wasn't trying to join a fleet, just wanted to research and learn to eventually get into one).

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.

Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#170 - 2013-01-22 22:47:07 UTC
Would be funny if all the characters posting in this thread were on subscriptions belonging to one single lurking player.
Raneru
Contemplate
#171 - 2013-01-23 00:21:01 UTC
March rabbit wrote:

1. not every aspect gives good bonuses to groups (take a look to missions, exploration, trading, small scale manufacturing....)


I would argue that if those aspects offered bonuses to groups (along the lines of incursions) they would be more compelling.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Wardecs Without Borders
#172 - 2013-01-23 04:35:11 UTC
I did solo Eve for quite a long time. The thing to remember is that there's more social contact to Eve than being in a group. The majority of my contacts in Eve come from the days when I roamed all over New Eden and w-space at my whim, getting to know the locals through cooperation and combat.

What I find problematic is the vast numbers of players in NPC corps.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Ghazu
#173 - 2013-01-23 05:14:23 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
I did solo Eve for quite a long time. The thing to remember is that there's more social contact to Eve than being in a group. The majority of my contacts in Eve come from the days when I roamed all over New Eden and w-space at my whim, getting to know the locals through cooperation and combat.

What I find problematic is the vast numbers of players in NPC corps.

Yes you may be solo, but you are subject to eve, the problem is the people who want their safe instances.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984

dark heartt
#174 - 2013-01-23 06:43:59 UTC  |  Edited by: dark heartt
I have no issue with Solo play, even if I don't understand why you would want solo play in Eve. What I have an issue with is this = Usually people who solo play get angry if something bad happens to them. As an example:

I have an RL mate who I introduced to Eve. He has always been notorious for only playing single player games, and despite my best efforts decided that he would treat Eve as one also. He thinks that High sec is supposed to be totally safe and that scamming is the work of the devil.

About a year after he started up, he decides to drop money on a bunch of plex and fully faction fit a mission running apoc to the tune of 2 billion. He then goes and runs missions in the same spot for 2 or 3 months (closer to 3 I think). When he is running a mission someone warps in and steals some junk loot and goes flashy to him. He tries to kill that person, and loses his 2 billion isk ship in what I'm sure is someones glorious failmail.

20 mins later I receive a text that he thinks CCP is bad for allowing something like that to happen in a high sec system and that he shouldn't have lost his ship. He rages for a long time about this and loses several other ships in ways that he shouldn't (jumping to lowsec in machs and poorly fitting ships). Then just after Retribution is released he loses a faction navy omen by shooting the wreckage of something I had shot (and therefore owned). He had set his safety to red, and then proceeds to blame CCP for allowing his ship to get destroyed.

I'm not saying that all solo players are bad. In fact I'm pretty sure that the silent majority really help the game (your red frog truckers and the solo indy setups out there), but the vocal minority who feel so entitled that they rage at things that are quite frankly their fault and wouldn't happen if they took the time to learn about the game, and learn the lesson that in this massively multi-player game, there are other players who want to harm you and there are steps you need to take to not fall victim to them. However if you fail to learn that, then don't whine about it on the forums or in local. Pick up the pieces and move on. Eve is a fantastically unforgiving game and for most people that's what they enjoy about it, what drew them into Eve. Don't let that end because you died a few times and can't handle it.

Ghazu wrote:
Yes you may be solo, but you are subject to eve, the problem is the people who want their safe instances.


This is pretty much my point.
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
The Network.
#175 - 2013-01-23 07:28:27 UTC
dark heartt wrote:
I have no issue with Solo play, even if I don't understand why you would want solo play in Eve. What I have an issue with is this = Usually people who solo play get angry if something bad happens to them. As an example:

I have an RL mate who I introduced to Eve. He has always been notorious for only playing single player games, and despite my best efforts decided that he would treat Eve as one also. He thinks that High sec is supposed to be totally safe and that scamming is the work of the devil.

About a year after he started up, he decides to drop money on a bunch of plex and fully faction fit a mission running apoc to the tune of 2 billion. He then goes and runs missions in the same spot for 2 or 3 months (closer to 3 I think). When he is running a mission someone warps in and steals some junk loot and goes flashy to him. He tries to kill that person, and loses his 2 billion isk ship in what I'm sure is someones glorious failmail.

20 mins later I receive a text that he thinks CCP is bad for allowing something like that to happen in a high sec system and that he shouldn't have lost his ship. He rages for a long time about this and loses several other ships in ways that he shouldn't (jumping to lowsec in machs and poorly fitting ships). Then just after Retribution is released he loses a faction navy omen by shooting the wreckage of something I had shot (and therefore owned). He had set his safety to red, and then proceeds to blame CCP for allowing his ship to get destroyed.

I'm not saying that all solo players are bad. In fact I'm pretty sure that the silent majority really help the game (your red frog truckers and the solo indy setups out there), but the vocal minority who feel so entitled that they rage at things that are quite frankly their fault and wouldn't happen if they took the time to learn about the game, and learn the lesson that in this massively multi-player game, there are other players who want to harm you and there are steps you need to take to not fall victim to them. However if you fail to learn that, then don't whine about it on the forums or in local. Pick up the pieces and move on. Eve is a fantastically unforgiving game and for most people that's what they enjoy about it, what drew them into Eve. Don't let that end because you died a few times and can't handle it.

Ghazu wrote:
Yes you may be solo, but you are subject to eve, the problem is the people who want their safe instances.


This is pretty much my point.

Wonderfully articulate post.

/serious

What I got out of Unifex was that my social value as an instigator was worth like +1000 other dudes. I've always known that of course, but there's something very affirming about hearing it with a bright British accent. Pirate

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#176 - 2013-01-23 08:00:25 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
dark heartt wrote:
I have no issue with Solo play, even if I don't understand why you would want solo play in Eve. What I have an issue with is this = Usually people who solo play get angry if something bad happens to them. As an example:

I have an RL mate who I introduced to Eve. He has always been notorious for only playing single player games, and despite my best efforts decided that he would treat Eve as one also. He thinks that High sec is supposed to be totally safe and that scamming is the work of the devil.

About a year after he started up, he decides to drop money on a bunch of plex and fully faction fit a mission running apoc to the tune of 2 billion. He then goes and runs missions in the same spot for 2 or 3 months (closer to 3 I think). When he is running a mission someone warps in and steals some junk loot and goes flashy to him. He tries to kill that person, and loses his 2 billion isk ship in what I'm sure is someones glorious failmail.

20 mins later I receive a text that he thinks CCP is bad for allowing something like that to happen in a high sec system and that he shouldn't have lost his ship. He rages for a long time about this and loses several other ships in ways that he shouldn't (jumping to lowsec in machs and poorly fitting ships). Then just after Retribution is released he loses a faction navy omen by shooting the wreckage of something I had shot (and therefore owned). He had set his safety to red, and then proceeds to blame CCP for allowing his ship to get destroyed.

I'm not saying that all solo players are bad. In fact I'm pretty sure that the silent majority really help the game (your red frog truckers and the solo indy setups out there), but the vocal minority who feel so entitled that they rage at things that are quite frankly their fault and wouldn't happen if they took the time to learn about the game, and learn the lesson that in this massively multi-player game, there are other players who want to harm you and there are steps you need to take to not fall victim to them. However if you fail to learn that, then don't whine about it on the forums or in local. Pick up the pieces and move on. Eve is a fantastically unforgiving game and for most people that's what they enjoy about it, what drew them into Eve. Don't let that end because you died a few times and can't handle it.

Ghazu wrote:
Yes you may be solo, but you are subject to eve, the problem is the people who want their safe instances.


This is pretty much my point.

Wonderfully articulate post.

/serious

What I got out of Unifex was that my social value as an instigator was worth like +1000 other dudes. I've always known that of course, but there's something very affirming about hearing it with a bright British accent. Pirate


What I got is that they've noticed that without the 1,000 dudes paying the bills, you and CCP would be FUBAR.

There would not be architects without 100 someones laying the bricks and pouring the concrete, and there would not be100 someones laying bricks without 10,000 no-ones buying the damn houses.

EVE is quite focused on "successful" players, but in doing so it neglects that many players just are "losers" and nobody pays 15 € per month to be a "loser" in a game. (Success= find the viable gameplay venues, like good corps/good mechanics and fail= get stuck in not viable gameplay venues like wrong corps/wrong mechanics)

In my words, it's the "politically incorrect" players who play the "wrong way" the ones who keep the show running. And so far, CCP has neglected them, treating them like expendable assets, until their numbers have begun to shrink.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

dark heartt
#177 - 2013-01-23 08:47:41 UTC  |  Edited by: dark heartt
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

What I got is that they've noticed that without the 1,000 dudes paying the bills, you and CCP would be FUBAR.

There would not be architects without 100 someones laying the bricks and pouring the concrete, and there would not be100 someones laying bricks without 10,000 no-ones buying the damn houses.

EVE is quite focused on "successful" players, but in doing so it neglects that many players just are "losers" and nobody pays 15 € per month to be a "loser" in a game. (Success= find the viable gameplay venues, like good corps/good mechanics and fail= get stuck in not viable gameplay venues like wrong corps/wrong mechanics)

In my words, it's the "politically incorrect" players who play the "wrong way" the ones who keep the show running. And so far, CCP has neglected them, treating them like expendable assets, until their numbers have begun to shrink.


Do you mind if I ask what it is you do in eve? Are you a miner, a mission runner or an explorer? Do you do industry or solo PVP?

There is no right and wrong way to play this game (that's the idea of the sandbox), however there are basic principles of this universe that shouldn't be changed, as it would lead to a worse game. I totally agree that for every CSM member or Alliance leader there are thousands of people who play solo or in small groups and there is nothing wrong with the solo player.

I was for almost a year a solo miner. I would go out in my hulk and mine on my main, and use my alt to haul for me. I was a member of nobody's corp except my own, and I did very little actual interaction with others during this time. I know what it's like to be that guy in a dead end system running level 4 missions in a Raven. But when my hulk got suicide ganked or someone ninja salvaged my mission loot I didn't come to the forums and cry for change. I learned to tank my hulk, and plain ignored the salvager.

There have been at least 5 or 6 different occasions when I did stupid things (my very first raven was killed in 0.0 space with small guns a shield and armour tank and a MWD that was too small). But I still didn't cry about how CCP made this game hard for the solo guy or how it was all too hard, I learned from my mistakes.

It seems I keep posting walls of text, but I feel really passionate about this point: EVE is harsh and unforgiving and everything should be easier as a group because of this.
There is no problem with adding content that can be done solo, and in fact you need that content for new players. But everything that can be done solo needs to be able to be done in a group and made easier because of this. It may seem like punishment to the solo player, but look at it this way.

If I wanted to dig a really big hole and I did it on my own it would be harder than say me getting 5 of my mates together and sharing the workload. The same basic principle applies in Eve. What can be done by someone alone can be done quicker and in some cases better by a group.

The truth is, Eve is made by the people playing it. and in my honest opinion you are missing out if you don't get to interact with this community in some way. Hell reading about the politics in 0.0 and the player run market were two of the things that got me into Eve, and they are all about the interactions that people have with each other. Solo play in Eve is in truth not really solo, because that ship you are flying was made by someone, that mission loot or minerals that you are selling are going to a player and no solo player I know can tell me any different.

Introduce more solo play for people, but for the love of everything Eve, don't make it easy.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#178 - 2013-01-23 09:08:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:


Wonderfully articulate post.

/serious

What I got out of Unifex was that my social value as an instigator was worth like +1000 other dudes. I've always known that of course, but there's something very affirming about hearing it with a bright British accent. Pirate


What I got is that they've noticed that without the 1,000 dudes paying the bills, you and CCP would be FUBAR.

There would not be architects without 100 someones laying the bricks and pouring the concrete, and there would not be100 someones laying bricks without 10,000 no-ones buying the damn houses.

EVE is quite focused on "successful" players, but in doing so it neglects that many players just are "losers" and nobody pays 15 € per month to be a "loser" in a game. (Success= find the viable gameplay venues, like good corps/good mechanics and fail= get stuck in not viable gameplay venues like wrong corps/wrong mechanics)

In my words, it's the "politically incorrect" players who play the "wrong way" the ones who keep the show running. And so far, CCP has neglected them, treating them like expendable assets, until their numbers have begun to shrink.


I agree both with Alekseyev (a person I really admire) and Ishtanchuk.

I'd like to expand on the "make the loser feel like a winner" bit.

In RL, the hugest majority of people are modest guys who are given a lot of "winner taste and feel" to keep their mind away from the simple fact they are being sucked dry by taxes going to pay somebody else's luxury yacht and cheap women.
They work all their life, they are "sentenced to work 8h a day for 35+ years" for a very moderate wage (sometimes in a job they don't like) while others, "the instigators" and other guys bring in their ideas and basically do what they love and are paid orders of magnitude higher.
One of the great "top RL players" / dominating class ideas has been to slowly spread a nice, numbing attitude that make the poorer folk feel happy and succesful when they work for this low wage and spend their lifetime as a second class category: they can still get an house, form a family, watch / play sports...
... as a Goon leader would say, they get the "farmlands" and are happy. The (RL and EvE) overlords bask in glory and money.
The whole world goes around like that.

Now, the genius who planned the Activision era WoW, was a good sociologist.
Whereas the first WoW was excellent and more free form and catered to succesful, dedicated gameplay players, instigators etc. etc. the game designers noticed it topped at 550,000 players.

WoW being bought by a mainstream mentality corporation, the new owners (they put new designers too) wanted to increase this number.
In order to do so, they just copied RL, something EvE does quite well in many respects but not all.
Therefore WoW planners introduced the RL "feeling of success for everybody" into the game.
Even the worst loser, the crap player could feel happy and succeeded. He perma-loses? He still gets welfare gear and welfare points. The end result is still the same, he's still the rock bottom but hey, HE GETS BLING!
No matter he will never stand a chance, he still gets his poor man's gadget to show. He grows attached to the one game that makes him feel a winner, he pays his sub.

Same for the casual players: they get affordably short to play achievements, they get their little niche of fun and happiness.

This is where EvE has grandiously failed: at not understanding how human mentality works. EvE is stuck at the previous "pro gamer" era.
The reward? The good players win, and win hard.
The price? Low player base, stay a niche game.


In fact, if you look at some EvE phenomenons with RL eyes it's easier to understand them.

Why, WHY the miners? Why the solo L4 players?

They are the two EvE features that give "bling" to even the poorest or time constrained players.
Even if both mining and missioning are so p!ss poorly implemented, they are the STAPLE of EvE, because the large majority IS made of "common folk".
This is also why CCP are always so prudent at implementing features that kick those "commoneers" in the jewels. Because you can't have a game purely populated by lions, you also need the gazelles. Look at how goot it worked the "all lions" model for low sec.


What the EvE "Lions" don't understand, is that by giving crutches, poor man's blings to those commoneers is NOT going to unfairly and negatively affect them. It's going to make the gazelles more and happier to the slaughter and exploitation...

... like it happens in RL.
Marcus Harikari
#179 - 2013-01-23 11:07:46 UTC
I actually think there should be more emphasis on small group play. I guess there is no real way to do this except to take away alt accounts, though. Most people just use an alt account instead of teaming up with someone else.
Dave Stark
#180 - 2013-01-23 11:24:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Marcus Harikari wrote:
I actually think there should be more emphasis on small group play. I guess there is no real way to do this except to take away alt accounts, though. Most people just use an alt account instead of teaming up with someone else.


and why wouldn't you? for example, when you're mining, if every account had a person behind it, rather than one person with multiple accounts, the orca pilot is going to be suicidal, or afk. all he has to do is move ore every couple of mins at most, he honestly isn't interacting with the game at all.

what's worse; one guy on his own with 5 accounts mining all day and interacting with nobody, or forcing a style of gameplay on someone where there's no real gameplay or interaction to be had?

edit: i say no real interaction because other players is putting ore in to your corp hangar is exactly the same as waiting for strips to finish and put ore in your ore bay.