Ships & Modules

Are Nightmares still a viable ship in PvP? It seems like they are seriously outshined by the Mach and the Vindi.

Just curious on current opinions.

I think it's more a question of the Mach and Vindi having class-crossing features that warrant putting down the ISK for them, beyond the traditional role of a Battleship.

Look at it like comparing Recon to HAC. HAC may have it's use but Recon tend to provide specifics that have an appeal outside their own immidiate use as a Tech II Cruiser. Many gangs want Recons, both up- and down in size.

Vindis have 90% webs on a durable platform. It obviously (like the Nightmare) have other appeal, but that specific feature of combining tackle and tank open up a variety of roles that few other ships in the game can contend with. There are other ships with web-bonuses and there are other ships with decent tanks, but there isn't many ships with 90% webs and an upper echelon BS-level tank (essentially turning it into a capital-environment Recon if we assume support ships to be slightly undertanked in general as compensation for their role bonuses).

Machs have Cruiser-like speed ontop of a Battleship tank, even the BC3 which have questionable role bonuses to being quick BS-turret hulls get both out-run, out-shot and, most importantly, out-tanked by it. It doesn't stop armor Machs from being used, but in that appeal the Mach doesn't do anything in particular that couldn't appeal for a Nightmare as well. So the popularity stem from how you can use it outside of a traditional BS.

Rattlesnakes have some pretty cool potential too, but it isn't really class-crossing features: it remains firmly in the scope of a BS.

There is a somewhat famous lowsec group called Snuffbox that have a love for all things Machariel, who tend to run them on a regular basis, both with AC and with Arty on armor tanks. Some of the more established block-groups can be seen using armor Machariels to support Napoc gangs (though i fail to see it's appeal myself).

Bhaalgorns used to be really popular but after Crucible it seemed to dawn on the general populace that suicide Triage Carriers had trouble standing up against suicide blap Dreads (the Dreads, among other, that love Vindi-support) in the immidiate post-super era.

Don't live in the past, these trends are 2 years old by now .

Bhaalgorns are still popular in WH space

-Liang

The nightmare, to me, has 1 role: Incursions...

It can also do most of the lvl 4s pretty fast... but its weak cap leads to a weak tanking capability, and in some missions you simply can't take down the enemies fast enough.


PvE outside of incursions is limited: Limited to EM/TH damage, so its best against enemies that also do EM/TH damage, which hit its lowest resists, those enemies also often neut, which goes to its weak cap and thus poor tanking ability (its shield recharge time is too high to passive tank it well)

PvP: Its slow (even for BS's), its very vulnerable to cap warfare, it makes you a huge target.

Machs, Vindis, and Bhaals are much more versatile

That wasn't so much the NM at work but more the mods, gang links and cyno. What also helped is that he went against IRON clowns.

Vindi=90%webs + good tank (only 90% webs avaiable that has enough buffer to survive bigger fights)
Mach=240k ehp + 14k alpha + decent speed (if like snuff do they are armortanked)
Bhaal= capwarfare



Nightmare= fulfills sadly no unique role in a fleet so its only for pve and 1-2 man pvp (gatecamp busting).

I was just fixing posts, but:

rattlesnake= pve,very little use in pvp (if mostly 1-2 man gatecamp busting stuff, where its worse then a nightmare)!

Rattlesnake is an un-viable target in most fleets - too tanky to burst down. That makes it viable to fly. If people don't want to shoot at you they leave you free to DPS at will. That's a strong ability. And the 'snake has PLENTY of dps...

if you cant take down npc's fast enough in missions before your cap/tank fails then you are doing it VERY wrong.