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Is CCP planning on removing data cores?
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Pookie McPook
The Whiskers of Kurvi-Tasch
#21 - 2013-01-18 20:29:21 UTC
Memo to self:
Stockpile all the datacores my RA sells me and make a killing when demand suddenly outstrips supply in the early days of the change.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#22 - 2013-01-18 20:35:39 UTC
Pookie McPook wrote:
Memo to self:
Stockpile all the datacores my RA sells me and make a killing when demand suddenly outstrips supply in the early days of the change.



Since there are only limited FW LP Stores, it would be interesting if the FW folks suddenly interdicted - they deliberately just stopped buying them en masse Twisted

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Gunlab
Labby Transports
#23 - 2013-01-20 10:46:19 UTC
This is another ******* gimmick from ccp to squees more $$ from players. Wake up people! CCP is all about the money.

dust 514 is ffp but if you want good stuff u have to buy Aurara(dollaz) dust 514 = fw= datacorez= dollaz to ccp.

If they change this im quitting my accounts. CCP can go **** themselfs.
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
#24 - 2013-01-20 11:15:39 UTC

Researchers where nerfed months ago at the same time the FW loyalty store was buffed with them. As if it needs any buffs.

Putting research data cores into the FW LP stores was a big mistake, as I predicted at the time.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#25 - 2013-01-21 19:17:29 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Pookie McPook wrote:
Memo to self:
Stockpile all the datacores my RA sells me and make a killing when demand suddenly outstrips supply in the early days of the change.


I think you still would have quite a wait due to the stockpiling of FW items from the early days of the tiers...
At teir 5 datacores cost 12.5k ISK each @ the FW lp store
At tier 4 datacores cost 25k ISK each @ the FW lp store

Now they are always costing 50k ISK @ the FW lp store each but I'm willing to bet over a years supply of them are sitting in stations of patient speculators
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Govind
Parity Labs
#26 - 2013-01-21 20:59:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Govind
If passive income was really what CCP was trying to demolish then just make it so you HAVE to do the daily research mission to earn any research points. The daily mission is already implemented, all you'd need to do is remove the passive income.

Assuming rational thinking prevailed in CCPs decision making then clearly this wasn't the true intent of the change. If they needed to give the FWers or the dust bunnies some new toy to incentivise their play then fine, I'd just like an activity to fill the investment of effort I put into training and standings gain for R&D.

As far as what to replace it with? Heck, anything would make more sense than the concept of data cores and invention in this game. The current system tells me that if I have limited run copies of the blueprints for an oil lantern I can ask a "research agent" to do generalized research in the field and give me a "data core" containing the research results. (Since all datacores of the same type are identical, I'm not sure why this counts as new research...) From the copies of that oil lantern blueprint I can have several teams of scientists aid me with inventing the electric lightbulb using data from said cores. From the teams that succeeded, I can make 5 brand new lightbulbs each... before I forget how to make them again and start over.

One suggestion would be to just seed tech 2 blueprints on the market, but with the caveat that you have to continually negotiate limited run patent licenses with the corporation that owns the design as a necessary input to produce with the blueprint. The research process could then be replaced with something that fuels the patent license negotiation process or just to provide other items you need to make the tech 2 item like aquiring munition export permits from the relevant faction.

But I digress. The point is that CCP has some bright folks and I'm sure they could come up with something that fosters game immersion that replaces the lost profession of R&D.
Ave Kathrina
My Ass Is On Fire
#27 - 2013-01-22 05:42:13 UTC
Govind wrote:
If passive income was really what CCP was trying to demolish then just make it so you HAVE to do the daily research mission to earn any research points. The daily mission is already implemented, all you'd need to do is remove the passive income.

Assuming rational thinking prevailed in CCPs decision making then clearly this wasn't the true intent of the change. If they needed to give the FWers or the dust bunnies some new toy to incentivise their play then fine, I'd just like an activity to fill the investment of effort I put into training and standings gain for R&D.

As far as what to replace it with? Heck, anything would make more sense than the concept of data cores and invention in this game. The current system tells me that if I have limited run copies of the blueprints for an oil lantern I can ask a "research agent" to do generalized research in the field and give me a "data core" containing the research results. (Since all datacores of the same type are identical, I'm not sure why this counts as new research...) From the copies of that oil lantern blueprint I can have several teams of scientists aid me with inventing the electric lightbulb using data from said cores. From the teams that succeeded, I can make 5 brand new lightbulbs each... before I forget how to make them again and start over.

One suggestion would be to just seed tech 2 blueprints on the market, but with the caveat that you have to continually negotiate limited run patent licenses with the corporation that owns the design as a necessary input to produce with the blueprint. The research process could then be replaced with something that fuels the patent license negotiation process or just to provide other items you need to make the tech 2 item like aquiring munition export permits from the relevant faction.

But I digress. The point is that CCP has some bright folks and I'm sure they could come up with something that fosters game immersion that replaces the lost profession of R&D.


Invention is a fudging clickfest.... and after you've done all the clicking to produce the prints, you get to enjoy the whole fracking process all over again to manufacture the shyte.

Oh dear,,,, I sound all bitter vet.

Science & Industry sux0rs
I've done some really stupid shit in this game.
H2O Hairey
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2013-01-22 23:02:02 UTC
If it's such a clickfest, what would be the chances that should be addressed.
So its a little less clicking but still a "prober" invention.
Ujio Sendai
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2013-01-25 19:31:30 UTC
After just a week or two of setting up a T2 production plan, the concept of completely getting rid of R&D datacores is just annoying on a game level. When I first started getting into the technicalities of this game one thing I liked was how many ways one could go about getting various tech. It seemed to have depth and be more interesting, like real life technical stuff.

It just made sense within the immersion of the game for corporate R&D agents to give out their datacores to trusted associates that work with them. Now there's the proposal to turn it into some sort of token rewards system for FW which is completely unrelated to technology development within the game. I hate when online games do this. That being, coralling players into some intermingled pvp brawl for essential items in the game.

I don't understand why anyone would think this is a good idea in a game like this, it just leads to hoarding and exploiting of who ever joins the dominant side. I was beginning to believe eve was a free enterprise industrial free for all to those who worked at it.
Ujio Sendai
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-01-25 19:48:48 UTC
Govind wrote:

As far as what to replace it with? Heck, anything would make more sense than the concept of data cores and invention in this game. The current system tells me that if I have limited run copies of the blueprints for an oil lantern I can ask a "research agent" to do generalized research in the field and give me a "data core" containing the research results. (Since all datacores of the same type are identical, I'm not sure why this counts as new research...) From the copies of that oil lantern blueprint I can have several teams of scientists aid me with inventing the electric lightbulb using data from said cores. From the teams that succeeded, I can make 5 brand new lightbulbs each... before I forget how to make them again and start over.


I work in electronics repair and the concept of datacores seemed like the proprietary software issued by a customer company in the form of data sticks or limited use software exchanges. The data issued is always the same, and the product being repaired and reprogrammed is always the same, but you still need new issued software as it is used up. That seemed like the case in Eve... well that's just my take on itSmile
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#31 - 2013-01-26 00:05:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Kara Books
I heard CCP is planning on removing pirate battleships and hookers

P.S.
the problem with invention right now is not a clickfest, its if it was changed to be fun, then few people would play eve just to have fun inventing, unless CCP invested incredible resources to make it a whole new game changing thing.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#32 - 2013-01-26 01:10:56 UTC
Hrm... I heard from someone else that they are reducing data cores from research agents, but not removing it. I would really like to get word from CCP on this issue as there seems to be a lot of confusion.

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Vala Theed
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#33 - 2013-01-27 06:08:42 UTC
Datacores don't really matter as far as I'm concerned because invented Tech 2 BPC's have such limited runs on them for modules and munitions it isn't really worth all of the trouble you have to go through to produce them and with all the additional manufactuing materials the final product as well. Invented Tech 2 BPC's best case senario is 19 licenced runs. Scaning down sites to get decrypters is time consuming and there are so many people doing it that there again you are better off spending that time doing something else to make ISK. Making Tech 2 ship BPC's is another story. There may be a little value in those if you want to bother finding all the materials to biuld them. Your better off just selling the Datacores and finding other ways to make ISK and buy what Tech 2 things you need. Right?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#34 - 2013-01-27 06:43:39 UTC
Vala Theed wrote:
Datacores don't really matter as far as I'm concerned because invented Tech 2 BPC's have such limited runs on them for modules and munitions it isn't really worth all of the trouble you have to go through to produce them and with all the additional manufactuing materials the final product as well. Invented Tech 2 BPC's best case senario is 19 licenced runs. Scaning down sites to get decrypters is time consuming and there are so many people doing it that there again you are better off spending that time doing something else to make ISK. Making Tech 2 ship BPC's is another story. There may be a little value in those if you want to bother finding all the materials to biuld them. Your better off just selling the Datacores and finding other ways to make ISK and buy what Tech 2 things you need. Right?



Just keep telling yourself that.

I'll just sit over here in my paddling pool full of isk. (Not a swimming pool. Those belong to tech moon owners Blink )

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#35 - 2013-01-28 02:12:02 UTC
In the end it will simply further consolidate the T2 monopoly of the CCP's pet nullsec groups that were given T2 BPOs, nothing more.

Working as intended.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Vala Theed
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#36 - 2013-01-29 17:26:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Vala Theed
Steve Ronuken wrote:


Just keep telling yourself that. Blink )



When I finished with "Right?" at the end of my post I was fishing for information Steve. Sorry, I should have made that clear. I am by no means an expert, in fact, always seems like I know very little.Smile
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#37 - 2013-01-29 17:35:53 UTC
Vala Theed wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:


Just keep telling yourself that. Blink )



When I finished with "Right?" at the end of my post I was fishing for information Steve. Sorry, Ishould have made that clear. I am by no means an expert, in fact, always seems like I know very little.



Ahh.

T2 manufacturing can be lucrative. It is, however, somewhat time consuming, requiring a whole bunch of skills, and a bunch of ISK outlay.

You pretty much need a POS to have the copy slots to copy blueprints. And if you have that, then you can get a reasonable number of invention slots too. It's one of those places where having alts makes sense, as a copy alt really doesn't take long to skill up, and only requires logging in once a day or less.

To do the invention, you'll need a bunch of skills. at least 2 science skills matching the ones for the datacores, and the skill for the data interface ([Race] Encryption Methods) You can get by with them at 1, but you're better off getting higher.

Once you have all of that, then you're talking about running invention jobs, repeatedly (about once an hour for module invention in a POS) of which around half will fail (can be adjusted. sometimes not worth it). The ones that succeed will have a limited number of runs (10 is normal for modules and ammo). These will take, normally, between 10 hours and 60 hours to produce completely.

The isk/hr that you can get out of them is on the order of 100k (for very common modules. as everyone makes them) to over a million isk/hr (uncommon. don't expect this to last. though it can happen in bursts) If you have all your alts trained for production, that's 30 odd slots you can fill. at 100k isk/hr, per month you're looking at around 2.1 billion per month profit.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Mistah Ewedynao
Ice Axe Psycho Killers
#38 - 2013-01-29 19:12:07 UTC
This is hardly worth commenting on as most of my points have already been put across by others. But I must.

As Devswarm continues with its process of enabling the total domination of eve, by a group who's stated goal when they arrived here was to "ruin everyone elses game", we are looking at some pretty bad times IMO.

1. WTF does farming FW plexs have to do with the complicated process of T2 invention that leads to small scale T2 production?

Absolutely no logical relationship at all. It is just part of the plan to nerf high sec T2 production out of existance. Sure some FW noob can farm plexs and make lots of LP's for datacores...again WTF does that have to do with the many months my main(s) have invested in research and production skills? I mean really?

2. The Devswarm contingent of CCP have already stated that "we want to move all T2 production to nullsec."

Gee, I wonder who gave them that idea?

3. They have already stealth nerfed highsec exploration...can invention rates be far behind?

..and I am now plexing all my previous cash paying account save one, and only cause I paid for that one for a year. This crap keeps up and I am not gonna be here much longer.

Nerf Goons

Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#39 - 2013-02-05 23:56:07 UTC
Question.... I'm still showing research agents in the agent finder. What are their purpose now?

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Orlacc
#40 - 2013-02-06 05:52:46 UTC
Don't know about anyone else, but I am still finding Datacores in Radar sites.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."