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Bears must destroy ISK

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Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#81 - 2013-01-20 01:02:50 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
As others have said, ships are made from minerals and then traded for isk. In fact, you don't need isk (other than the BPO) to make a ship.

So when you are losing a ship, you are simply losing the time and effort to mine the ores to make that ship.

Its kind of neat if you think about it....

Every ship you have flown was originally mined by a miner somewhere in a game and manufactured into a ship.

No matter who you are and what you fly, some lowly miner made that ship with their time.


Maybe miners should have the ability to poison their ore. So if it ends up in the hands of an enemy corp it vaporizes. And these Indy-war losses should produce KM's so the bears can wave em around and laugh a bit.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#82 - 2013-01-20 01:18:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
As someone that lives in null, is a dedicated industrialist, and doesn't shoot things anymore, I support this.

I would like there to be ways that I could "destroy" ISK. Even if it was a way that I invest in something that didn't just entirely transfer the to another player.

I feel like people like me act as ISK dumps. We are were the ISK ends up; the manufacturer and marketeer who doesn't explode ships on a regular basis. In a way it's kind of a sink, because if the ISK doesn't get back into circulation then it doesn't get back into circulation.

It would just be nice to have a kind of "end goal", something to do with the huge piles of ISK you can make, other than just using it to make evern bigger piles of ISK.


If high sec industrial warfare was actually viable I would invest ISK into it by way of corporate bounties.
But as long as high sec is dominated by a bunch of tiny little corporations that never grow and just disband and reform in the face of a wardec, I'll never have any way of impacting the people that impact me the most.


Do you hear me CCP,
I HAVE NO MEANS OF IMPACTING THOSE PEOPLE THAT HAVE THE MOST IMPACT ON ME.

If high sec was restructured so that high sec corporations were encouraged to grow larger, develop industrial blocks, and then be willing to fight for control of those blocks, I would be able to invest my ISK into having an impact on those people who impact me most in EVE.

I believe there is a lot of potential left to be unlocked in EVE, and it's not got **** to do with making things easier for the sake of more subs, and everything to do with expanding the sandbox and creating a much more dynamic and living EVE.
Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Academy
#83 - 2013-01-20 01:19:01 UTC
Burn Jita and Hulkkageddon doesn't destroy isk, it creates it
Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#84 - 2013-01-20 01:33:09 UTC
The complete absence of all eveconomic understanding in this thread, starting with the OP, sigh... I got through a couple pages... Jesus Christ you guys...

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#85 - 2013-01-20 01:36:46 UTC
Galaxy Pig wrote:
The complete absence of all eveconomic understanding in this thread, starting with the OP, sigh... I got through a couple pages... Jesus Christ you guys...

Whats to understand pig? The PvP guys get options to destroy things. It can only be good if the bears have some good options for destruction themselves. It will give them something to work for besides yet another Plexed account with a hulk pilot.
Nick Asir
Doomheim
#86 - 2013-01-20 01:39:09 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Galaxy Pig wrote:
The complete absence of all eveconomic understanding in this thread, starting with the OP, sigh... I got through a couple pages... Jesus Christ you guys...

Whats to understand pig? The PvP guys get options to destroy things. It can only be good if the bears have some good options for destruction themselves. It will give them something to work for besides yet another Plexed account with a hulk pilot.


I like the top hat and monocle idea someone posted earlier.. what I wouldn't spend to get that
Stonecrusher Mortlock
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2013-01-20 01:41:59 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
if i'm destroying isk i'm not plexing my accounts, and if ccp doesn't want my money, i know blizzard/activision do.

U do know CCP all ready made there money off said plex before u even thought of buying it.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#88 - 2013-01-20 01:46:53 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Galaxy Pig wrote:
The complete absence of all eveconomic understanding in this thread, starting with the OP, sigh... I got through a couple pages... Jesus Christ you guys...

Whats to understand pig? The PvP guys get options to destroy things. It can only be good if the bears have some good options for destruction themselves. It will give them something to work for besides yet another Plexed account with a hulk pilot.

It's almost like there are people who play EVE and think that everyone else that plays EVE is playing to watch the number in there wallet go up.

And then there's this other group that thinks that just because you like to build and sell things you don't want to have some impact on other people.

As a dedicated industrialist who doesn't derive a heck of a lot of fun from the FiS mechanics, I'd very much like some way to put my ISK to work generating meaningful content.

I don't want to buy stupid **** to "make myself look rich", I want to be able to have meaningful EVE style impact. As an industrialist my biggest enemy is high sec industry. HIgh sec industrialist have huge impact on me, but I'm prevented from being able to retaliate.

High sec industrial warfare is incredibly relevant to me, and would be something that I and I believe many other industrialists; both high sec and null sec, would be willing to invest ISK into.

If only there were mechanics that supported high sec industrial warfare in a meaningful way. As apposed to mechanics that allow people to avoid it with zero consequence.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#89 - 2013-01-20 01:56:03 UTC
I'm very curious to hear what Whitehound has to say about the idea. Has anyone seen him around? I tried to send a message but just get an error.
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#90 - 2013-01-20 02:12:12 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Bears need more options for directly destroying the ISK of their enemies.

*PvPers make kills and then spend it on new ships which they destroy in combat. They interact with one another and create content.

**Care bears accumulate massive fortunes with their mining and industrial play. They have few options to destroy ISK with their playstyle.

Events like Hulkegeddon and Burn Jita will not equalize this disparity.

The bears should be given options for the direct destruction of ISK. For whatever reason they cannot participate in PvP combat. But in a sandbox there can be other devices that will hurt your enemies. Gameplay that the empire builders will enjoy that directly destroys the ISK of their enemies.

Only by removing the artificial barriers to destruction will the ISK disparity be equalized.

Skip to pg 4 post 70. The first 3 pages got taken up by Hickory, Dickory, and Stark babbling on about some nonsense.


**Dont insult miners. Iam a miner and iam not afk.
*Pvp have miners in high sec or/and pve agents runs.

And my answer its a whining post.
Ascendic
Polaris Syndicate
#91 - 2013-01-20 02:19:04 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
if i'm destroying isk i'm not plexing my accounts, and if ccp doesn't want my money, i know blizzard/activision do.


If you are plexing accounts CCP is not getting your money in the first place.

Also have fun giving money to the cancer that is Blizzard / Activision

Derp.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#92 - 2013-01-20 02:19:23 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
High sec industrial warfare is incredibly relevant to me, and would be something that I and I believe many other industrialists; both high sec and null sec, would be willing to invest ISK into.

If only there were mechanics that supported high sec industrial warfare in a meaningful way. As apposed to mechanics that allow people to avoid it with zero consequence.

The 0.01 isk war !!!!

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#93 - 2013-01-20 02:53:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
High sec industrial warfare is incredibly relevant to me, and would be something that I and I believe many other industrialists; both high sec and null sec, would be willing to invest ISK into.

If only there were mechanics that supported high sec industrial warfare in a meaningful way. As apposed to mechanics that allow people to avoid it with zero consequence.

The 0.01 isk war !!!!

The most hardcore PvP in EVE.


Seriously though, when you get right down to it, that's all the industrialist has. 0.01 ISK wars.

God forbid there be mechanics that actually make the high sec corporation mean something, and have things to actually fight over.

Imagine if high sec corporations could actually control high sec asteroid belts.
Imagine if 1-.8 systems only had low yeild veld and scord and high sec corps had a way of controlling the belts in all the .7-.5 systems, and militia corps had a way of controlling the belts in low sec systems through the faction warfare mechanics.

I would honestly not be apposed to some variation of high sec system upgrade that would allow high sec corporations to improve .7-.5 belts to have higher concentration version of the ores. Without a high sec corp in control, and upgrading the system it would just spawn the standard ore version.

If high sec industrialists had more control of the systems, they would have more reason to stay in thier corp. If they have a reson to stay, and a reason to fight, you should then end up with more high sec "mercenary" corps that would be willing to hire out there services to fight on their behalf; as well as the development of larger high sec corporations that are organized to have members who are capable of fighting.

That just sounds like a much more dynamic and interesting EVE to me.
I would hope that high sec industrialist would support stuff like that, and not just say no because it would ammount to an endorsement of PvP via meaningful high sec wardecs.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#94 - 2013-01-20 02:57:49 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Imagine if high sec corporations could actually control high sec asteroid belts.
Imagine if 1-.8 systems only had low yeild veld and scord and high sec corps had a way of controlling the belts in all the .7-.5 systems, and militia corps had a way of controlling the belts in low sec systems through the faction warfare mechanics.

I would honestly not be apposed to some variation of high sec system upgrade that would allow high sec corporations to improve .7-.5 belts to have higher concentration version of the ores. Without a high sec corp in control, and upgrading the system it would just spawn the standard ore version.

If high sec industrialists had more control of the systems, they would have more reason to stay in thier corp. If they have a reson to stay, and a reason to fight, you should then end up with more high sec "mercenary" corps that would be willing to hire out there services to fight on their behalf; as well as the development of larger high sec corporations that are organized to have members who are capable of fighting.

That just sounds like a much more dynamic and interesting EVE to me.
I would hope that high sec industrialist would support stuff like that, and not just say no because it would ammount to an endorsement of PvP via meaningful high sec wardecs.

So a Belt Control Unit (BCU) which is a strructure with tons of hitpoints, right?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#95 - 2013-01-20 03:07:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Imagine if high sec corporations could actually control high sec asteroid belts.
Imagine if 1-.8 systems only had low yeild veld and scord and high sec corps had a way of controlling the belts in all the .7-.5 systems, and militia corps had a way of controlling the belts in low sec systems through the faction warfare mechanics.

I would honestly not be apposed to some variation of high sec system upgrade that would allow high sec corporations to improve .7-.5 belts to have higher concentration version of the ores. Without a high sec corp in control, and upgrading the system it would just spawn the standard ore version.

If high sec industrialists had more control of the systems, they would have more reason to stay in thier corp. If they have a reson to stay, and a reason to fight, you should then end up with more high sec "mercenary" corps that would be willing to hire out there services to fight on their behalf; as well as the development of larger high sec corporations that are organized to have members who are capable of fighting.

That just sounds like a much more dynamic and interesting EVE to me.
I would hope that high sec industrialist would support stuff like that, and not just say no because it would ammount to an endorsement of PvP via meaningful high sec wardecs.

So a Belt Control Unit (BCU) which is a strructure with tons of hitpoints, right?

Sounds about right to me.

Pretty much anything that would require you to earn the right to have the level of impact that the high sec industrialist has on EVE.

Soundwave says he doesn't want people sitting in their own little bubble and be able to have an impact on everyone else in EVE, yet high sec industry is giant ******* bubble that has the most impact on every person in EVE.

The single biggest impactors in the game and not a single tool to allow use to meaningfully impact them back. Just ****** mechanics that allow them drop and reform corps with zero consequence or to never join a player run corp at all.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#96 - 2013-01-20 03:24:59 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

That just sounds like a much more dynamic and interesting EVE to me.
I would hope that high sec industrialist would support stuff like that, and not just say no because it would ammount to an endorsement of PvP via meaningful high sec wardecs.


I think it will split the bears; most of the hardcore confictaphobic's wont like the idea. But I think there's a bunch of miners and builders who would love the chance to strike back in a way that doesn't involve dogfighting. Even if it means that Eve will be a more volatile place.

The idea of allowing "owned" systems to be more productive is a good one to. It will help the CCP economy directors to even out the losses caused by indy warfare options.

indec in opposition to wardec. Thats just a great new phrase to ad to Eve.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#97 - 2013-01-20 05:15:09 UTC
sounds to me like the op is advocating dumbing down the game. If you can't figure out how to make your competition spend more money than you will not be successful. There is no reason to invent some direct destruct method... complexity is the what make this game great.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Dave Stark
#98 - 2013-01-20 09:34:34 UTC
Ascendic wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
if i'm destroying isk i'm not plexing my accounts, and if ccp doesn't want my money, i know blizzard/activision do.


If you are plexing accounts CCP is not getting your money in the first place.

Also have fun giving money to the cancer that is Blizzard / Activision

Derp.


yeah because all plexes are free, right?!
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#99 - 2013-01-20 10:42:22 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
sounds to me like the op is advocating dumbing down the game. If you can't figure out how to make your competition spend more money than you will not be successful. There is no reason to invent some direct destruct method... complexity is the what make this game great.


It would be another option for interaction. More options increase complexity.


TharOkha
0asis Group
#100 - 2013-01-20 11:49:14 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
Corey Fumimasa wrote:

Care bears accumulate massive fortunes with their mining and industrial play. They have few options to destroy ISK with their playstyle.
.

*slap in da face*

Now go back to eve school and teach yourself what is and what isnt isk sink/faucet.

Newb is expalining eve economy mechanics. Its the same thing as some dumb creationist explains some scientific methods to PhD Scientist.

There are many ways how to oppose hisec industrialists. You need to understant that pew pew is not the only way to destroy your oponent.

In fact, hisec industrialists have sinked maybe more isk than you will with your pew pew playstyle.

Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

So a Belt Control Unit (BCU) which is a strructure with tons of hitpoints, right?

Sounds about right to me.

Pretty much anything that would require you to earn the right to have the level of impact that the high sec industrialist has on EVE.


In other words, bigger blob would win.

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell