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Can't believe how many CSM/CCP employees want a theme park

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Garonor
Aegis Security Consulting
#61 - 2013-01-17 14:15:14 UTC
Felicity Love wrote:
When CONCORD gets a few days off, either by deliberate plan or some "Tuxfordian Effect"... can't wait for the Youtube parodies. BlinkBlinkBlink

And you guys thought that "Big Red Button" we got in the Xmas goodies was just a useless prop.... TwistedTwistedTwisted


That could actually be fun. I picture it like this:
1. CONCORD won't be active for a day or two.
2. All players are made deputies to CONCORD.
3. Every time a crime is committed all players in the vicinity get the option to insta-warp to the location with the perpetrator already locked.

This would propably mean that Jita and all the major hubs are more or less crime-free, while in you should be avoiding less populated areas of space.
Tarpedo
Incursionista
#62 - 2013-01-17 14:16:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarpedo
Most amazing fact for me - how many people care about CSM and think it's sime kind of space democracy council which can actually do something useful instead of its actual meaning: instrument for CCP to stabilize null/low alliances and avoid massive monetary/subscriptions losses in case of alliance leaders leaving the game - by offering bribes to them in form of free trips to Iceland.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#63 - 2013-01-17 14:17:17 UTC
Most MMOs are themeparks because this is what players keep asking for.

Just a lesson to Devs, stick to your vision and don't listen to players that give feedback on metagame design.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Anslo
Scope Works
#64 - 2013-01-17 14:17:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Anslo
baltec1 wrote:
Considering we have had these things happening in game for TEN YEARS and we have had nothing but year on year growth I would say the sytem is working just fine.


I think you missed the point about evolution. Do you really think Eve can sustain itself another 10 years with the same business plan and style, griefers abounding in the game when people just want to have fun? Then being told to deal with it or GB2WOWNUB because they don't play the game "the right way?"

If you really think Eve will be around another 10 years catering to people like that....you clearly know nothing about running a business. Hopefully Hilmar does.

Garonor wrote:
That could actually be fun. I picture it like this:
1. CONCORD won't be active for a day or two.
2. All players are made deputies to CONCORD.
3. Every time a crime is committed all players in the vicinity get the option to insta-warp to the location with the perpetrator already locked.

This would propably mean that Jita and all the major hubs are more or less crime-free, while in you should be avoiding less populated areas of space.


Ha. Ha ha. You're funny. No really you are. You think people would be "good" and police?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#65 - 2013-01-17 14:21:00 UTC
Tarpedo wrote:
Most amazing fact for me - how many people care about CSM and think it's sime kind of space democracy council which can actually do something useful instead of its actual meaning: instrument for CCP to stabilize null/low alliances and avoid massive monetary/subscriptions losses in case of alliance leaders leaving the game - by offering bribes to them in form of free trips to Iceland.


Perhaps you missed the bit where two developers said they wanted really, really bad changes involving the removal of non-consentual combat from highsec?

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#66 - 2013-01-17 14:21:48 UTC
Anslo wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Considering we have had these things happening in game for TEN YEARS and we have had nothing but year on year growth I would say the sytem is working just fine.


I think you missed the point about evolution. Do you really think Eve can sustain itself another 10 years with the same business plan and style, griefers abounding in the game when people just want to have fun? Then being told to deal with it or GB2WOWNUB because they don't play the game "the right way?"

If you really think Eve will be around another 10 years catering to people like that....you clearly know nothing about running a business. Hopefully Hilmar does.


Firstly, griefers do not abound in the game, they are delt with whenever they show up by the GMs.

And secondly yes I do see this game going on and growing for another 10 years with the same plan. We have had 10 years of content made by us and I look forwards to the next 10 years of content made by us.
Rodtrik
Aphex Industries
#67 - 2013-01-17 14:22:23 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Perhaps you missed the bit where two developers said they wanted really, really bad changes involving the removal of non-consentual combat from highsec?


Blame yourselves for its suggestion.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#68 - 2013-01-17 14:23:44 UTC  |  Edited by: TheGunslinger42
bongsmoke wrote:
Your still able to gank people, don't see the source of tears being valid beyond this point.


Probably because you're an npc corp alt.

And if pvp in highsec was reduced to just suicide ganks, the next thing CCP and CSM members would be discussing would be how unfair suicide ganks are and hey maybe we should consider getting rid of them entirely!

Not only that, but reducing pvp in highsec solely to suicide ganks is just an awful, awful idea. Everything in EVE is far too interconnected to effectively wall off entire regions of space and say it's safe there. That's simply unbalanced, and starts leaning towards a complete separation of playstyles and areas, where instead of a single big universe with minor variances from area to area, you have dedicated areas with extremely different mechanics with little or no crossover. You essentially strip away what makes EVE unique
Lin Suizei
#69 - 2013-01-17 14:23:53 UTC
Anslo wrote:
If you really think Eve will be around another 10 years catering to people like that....you clearly know nothing about running a business. Hopefully Hilmar does.


No doubt EVE is better off attempting to be WoW in space instead of making an indelible mark on the MMO landscape with it's unique and vibrant gameplay and meta-gaming.

Anslo wrote:
Ha. Ha ha. You're funny. No really you are. You think people would be "good" and police?


There's enough full-time killmail vultures in highsec to make this work.

Lol I can't delete my forum sig.
Anslo
Scope Works
#70 - 2013-01-17 14:25:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Anslo
baltec1 wrote:
Firstly, griefers do not abound in the game, they are delt with whenever they show up by the GMs.


Griefers don't abound in Eve? Do you even play this game? OK sure, by the griefer's holy "definition" provided by CCP you say it isn't griefing. But for those of us in the real world who don't limit their views in a skewed favor of a poorly defined action by a game company (i.e. griefing), it is viewed as griefing. Whether you choose to accept reality versus staying in a fantasy is your choice.

Quote:
And secondly yes I do see this game going on and growing for another 10 years with the same plan. We have had 10 years of content made by us and I look forwards to the next 10 years of content made by us.

Then I'm glad you aren't running this business.

Lin Suizei wrote:
No doubt EVE is better off attempting to be WoW in space instead of making an indelible mark on the MMO landscape with it's unique and vibrant gameplay and meta-gaming.

Translation: Eve is good because it lets me grief people, and I honestly don't care whether the game grows or not. Death to casuals. I am superior because I play spreadsheets in space and I don't want that to go away because then I'll get knocked off my high horse.

Quote:
]There's enough full-time killmail vultures in highsec to make this work.

Throughout all of high-sec? You're more delusional than I thought if you really think roams would magically start happening versus more camping. That or mass unsubscriptions.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#71 - 2013-01-17 14:25:58 UTC
Rodtrik wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Perhaps you missed the bit where two developers said they wanted really, really bad changes involving the removal of non-consentual combat from highsec?


Blame yourselves for its suggestion.


I have no control over devs having bad ideas any more than I have over players coming up with equally bad ones.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Mister S Burke
Doomheim
#72 - 2013-01-17 14:27:12 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
sorry, it doesn't matter if that's what they want. I want my own personal fleet of titans. I want concord to not exist. I want x, y and z. It doesn't matter, we all have to face how the game currently works - for them that includes being open to war decs and suicide ganks.


They key word is "currently", things can and will be changed. It makes no business sense to allow bored rich veterans who have been playing for years and just use ISK to pay for game time (no real cash going to CCP) to dictate an outdated gank centric game model. I think you can make EVE more noob friendly and less griefy without making it a themepark. You griefer types have to start being less intransigent and face the future. You have to realize EVE Online wants to grow and not by a piddly amount. EVE's "growth" is what Blizzard did last weekend, they want more and I agree with them. When DUST players who have never heard of EVE come try it out, they will be run off by suicide gankers and aholes and they will go "f this", they still have games like this? They won't sub.
The casuals are at the gates and you better think of something unless you want to drown in the tar pits.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#73 - 2013-01-17 14:27:21 UTC
Anslo wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Considering we have had these things happening in game for TEN YEARS and we have had nothing but year on year growth I would say the sytem is working just fine.


I think you missed the point about evolution. Do you really think Eve can sustain itself another 10 years with the same business plan and style, griefers abounding in the game when people just want to have fun? Then being told to deal with it or GB2WOWNUB because they don't play the game "the right way?"

If you really think Eve will be around another 10 years catering to people like that....you clearly know nothing about running a business. Hopefully Hilmar does.

Garonor wrote:
That could actually be fun. I picture it like this:
1. CONCORD won't be active for a day or two.
2. All players are made deputies to CONCORD.
3. Every time a crime is committed all players in the vicinity get the option to insta-warp to the location with the perpetrator already locked.

This would propably mean that Jita and all the major hubs are more or less crime-free, while in you should be avoiding less populated areas of space.


Ha. Ha ha. You're funny. No really you are. You think people would be "good" and police?


So what you're saying is the type of audience EVE has catered to since it's inception, the audience that has kept it alive and successful for ten years, will in the near future cause the game to crash and burn

you are very very special
Anslo
Scope Works
#74 - 2013-01-17 14:30:04 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
So what you're saying is the type of audience EVE has catered to since it's inception, the audience that has kept it alive and successful for ten years, will in the near future cause the game to crash and burn

you are very very special


Yes, because time's change, markets change, fads change, and niche's change. Businesses adapt to make the most profit and expand. It's worked for ten years so far, but to think Eve will survive ANOTHER ten years with the same business model and ignore/not adapt to potential customers is just laughable.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2013-01-17 14:31:33 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
See, that's all I'd ask of ccp and the csm - trying to come up with ideas like this rather than entertaining the idea of removing non-consensual interactions entirely


But that's not what they're doing. If you look at the minutes, they're looking for ways to fix the problem.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#76 - 2013-01-17 14:32:25 UTC
Anslo wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
So what you're saying is the type of audience EVE has catered to since it's inception, the audience that has kept it alive and successful for ten years, will in the near future cause the game to crash and burn

you are very very special


Yes, because time's change, markets change, fads change, and niche's change. Businesses adapt to make the most profit and expand. It's worked for ten years so far, but to think Eve will survive ANOTHER ten years with the same business model and ignore/not adapt to potential customers is just laughable.


Do you have any proof that the market has changed, and that EVE will die if it doesn't turn itself into a WoW clone? Anything at all? No?

There's proof to the contrary though: The continued growing of the user base despite still being a harsh, cold universe where people can kill you, steal from you, scam you, etc
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#77 - 2013-01-17 14:33:08 UTC
Mister S Burke wrote:
It makes no business sense to allow bored rich veterans who have been playing for years and just use ISK to pay for game time (no real cash going to CCP)


Wrong. Perhaps you need to research how PLEx works before you post?

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Mister S Burke
Doomheim
#78 - 2013-01-17 14:33:23 UTC
I still can't get a clear answer on how the fate of EVE hinges on a vocal minorities ability to grief noobs with 600K skill points.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#79 - 2013-01-17 14:33:44 UTC
I’ve talked with a few carebears over the years and I have come to believe that they can’t PvP. Not because they don’t want to kill the griefers and gankers, but because they physically can’t do it. They freeze up at the keyboard when they get attacked.

Maybe if they were eased into it and trained they could get over that reflex, but it would take months or years to do.

It might be easier to give them a mechanic that they could prepare before combat, perhaps a castle building exercise of sorts. Let them hire NPC mercs in different types of ships and build a little npc fleet that they could preset some options for. So when they get attacked and freeze up the NPC’s will jump in and rep them and jam the attackers, giving the carebear a chance to warp out or perhaps even collect themselves enough to target the aggressor and actually shoot back.

Or maybe much longer locktimes across the board; the PvP community would adjust and it might allow the carebears time to react in a meaningful way. Or maybe just longer locktimes in highsec! Oh that’s a great idea, it would push some PvPers into low and null, reduce suicide ganking, and maybe give care-bears a chance to do something besides stare dumbly at the screen and pray for CONCORD to show up.

Whatever the solution I think it needs to look at why some people don’t PvP.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#80 - 2013-01-17 14:33:47 UTC
Anslo wrote:


Griefers don't abound in Eve? Do you even play this game? OK sure, by the griefer's holy "definition" provided by CCP you say it isn't griefing. But for those of us in the real world who don't limit their views in a skewed favor of a poorly defined action by a game company (i.e. griefing), it is viewed as griefing. Whether you choose to accept reality versus staying in a fantasy is your choice.


People blowing up a ship to steal isk is not griefing. People war decing a corp to destroy their tower so they can place their own is not griefing, people taking up a contract to war dec a rivals competition is not griefing.

Just about the only thing that is griefing is can baiting on the starter stations. You need to start learning the difference or you only end up looking like a self entitaled child.

Quote:
And secondly yes I do see this game going on and growing for another 10 years with the same plan. We have had 10 years of content made by us and I look forwards to the next 10 years of content made by us.

Then I'm glad you aren't running this business. [/quote]

I'll take the plan that has resulted in the only MMO to have 10 years of growth over all of the other dead after 3 months plans. All of the evidence over the last decade points to CCP getting it right.