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Hi Sec Miners are Robbers, Miner Gankers / Bumpers are the Cops

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March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2013-01-14 16:04:09 UTC
Zol Interbottom wrote:
Jake Warbird wrote:
so much tears even without the miners posting on here. Just lol


miners dont even need to post anymore, "New Order" are self-generating their own tears out of desperation now that no one pays attention to them

it's funny but i need to agree.

Once i was sitting in Dodixie killing outlaw pods (you know: lame and stupid carebearing). One guy appeared in local and said that several jumps away New Order makes party with miners. I went there to see this (and to try to get free podkills).
Found only some amount of silent miners and lots of kids crying over the local "WAA!! WAA!!! NEW ORDER!!!". Went after 5 minutes disappointed by absence of any action. What?

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#42 - 2013-01-14 16:06:13 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:


Keep telling the OP he's an idiot for pointing out that miners drive down the cost of minerals by overmining.


CCP TOLD US THEY ARE YOU TOOLS!

And we don't really care. Poorly-thought-out screed is still poorly thought-out.


You don't like current prices? Increase your ganking.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#43 - 2013-01-14 16:07:47 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Zol Interbottom wrote:
Jake Warbird wrote:
so much tears even without the miners posting on here. Just lol


miners dont even need to post anymore, "New Order" are self-generating their own tears out of desperation now that no one pays attention to them

it's funny but i need to agree.

Once i was sitting in Dodixie killing outlaw pods (you know: lame and stupid carebearing). One guy appeared in local and said that several jumps away New Order makes party with miners. I went there to see this (and to try to get free podkills).
Found only some amount of silent miners and lots of kids crying over the local "WAA!! WAA!!! NEW ORDER!!!". Went after 5 minutes disappointed by absence of any action. What?


I understand that it's hard for you to believe. but I am not and never will be a new order associate. Actually I think the new order is doing it wrong, and they're missing many chances to improve their organization. I've been parroting my anti-hi sec position for years, long before James 315's new order manifesto.

However I do appreciate their work from a research perspective, it shows how certain kinds of people act under pressure.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#44 - 2013-01-14 16:09:26 UTC
silens vesica wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:


Keep telling the OP he's an idiot for pointing out that miners drive down the cost of minerals by overmining.


CCP TOLD US THEY ARE YOU TOOLS!

And we don't really care. Poorly-thought-out screed is still poorly thought-out.


You don't like current prices? Increase your ganking.

Learn to read genius.

Where in there am I expresing MY opinion. Good lord, I told you WHAT CCP TOLD US, not my opinion.

People blasted the OP for stating miners drive down the cost of minerals, and flat out told him he was wrong, CCP says otherwise.

Singular Snowflake
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2013-01-14 16:13:05 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
silens vesica wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:


Keep telling the OP he's an idiot for pointing out that miners drive down the cost of minerals by overmining.


CCP TOLD US THEY ARE YOU TOOLS!

And we don't really care. Poorly-thought-out screed is still poorly thought-out.


You don't like current prices? Increase your ganking.

Learn to read genius.

Where in there am I expresing MY opinion. Good lord, I told you WHAT CCP TOLD US, not my opinion.

People blasted the OP for stating miners drive down the cost of minerals, and flat out told him he was wrong, CCP says otherwise.


It is impossible to talk to some of these bot-aspirants. They will keep repeating their own "truths" even when they are proven wrong.
Dave stark
#46 - 2013-01-14 16:13:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
silens vesica wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:


Keep telling the OP he's an idiot for pointing out that miners drive down the cost of minerals by overmining.


CCP TOLD US THEY ARE YOU TOOLS!

And we don't really care. Poorly-thought-out screed is still poorly thought-out.


You don't like current prices? Increase your ganking.

Learn to read genius.

Where in there am I expresing MY opinion. Good lord, I told you WHAT CCP TOLD US, not my opinion.

People blasted the OP for stating miners drive down the cost of minerals, and flat out told him he was wrong, CCP says otherwise.



actually, you told us what ccp told you from a very small time period. i believe it was from the very same devblog that claims every one using nothing but mackinaws was "diversity".

again, if you actually look at the market data trit is up 50% on this time last year. granted, the number of miners have nothing to do with it but the statement "miners are earning less isk" is a complete lie.

edit:
actually from the dev blog
Quote:
mineral price changes in October were quite limited, mostly cancelling each other out, resulting in a total change of 0.9%.

0.9% is a positive value, that's an increase. the price of minerals didn't go down, according to the devblog.
Quote:
The 3% deflation in the Primary Producer Price Index was mainly driven by moon materials and datacores.

nothing to do with miners.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#47 - 2013-01-14 16:15:14 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
silens vesica wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:


Keep telling the OP he's an idiot for pointing out that miners drive down the cost of minerals by overmining.


CCP TOLD US THEY ARE YOU TOOLS!

And we don't really care. Poorly-thought-out screed is still poorly thought-out.


You don't like current prices? Increase your ganking.

Learn to read genius.

Where in there am I expresing MY opinion. Good lord, I told you WHAT CCP TOLD US, not my opinion.

People blasted the OP for stating miners drive down the cost of minerals, and flat out told him he was wrong, CCP says otherwise.

Reading failure is not mine.

Do. Not. Care. that CCP told us this, or told us that. That is quite beside my point, which is that the OP is still poorly organized, full of muddy thought, and is excessively wordy.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2013-01-14 16:21:05 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:

I understand that it's hard for you to believe. but I am not and never will be a new order associate. Actually I think the new order is doing it wrong, and they're missing many chances to improve their organization. I've been parroting my anti-hi sec position for years, long before James 315's new order manifesto.

you right.

It happened so i have never seen your anti-highsec posts before James315. And when it happened your posts look like simple rephrasing of his own posts. So yea. For me it is hard to believe.

However as you say this - why not? It's not that i really need to believe to anything. You are separate warrior? Ok. Will try to remember this fact reading your posts next time. Not sure if it will change anything tho: usually i answer to post and not to person.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#49 - 2013-01-14 16:23:14 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
silens vesica wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:


Keep telling the OP he's an idiot for pointing out that miners drive down the cost of minerals by overmining.


CCP TOLD US THEY ARE YOU TOOLS!

And we don't really care. Poorly-thought-out screed is still poorly thought-out.


You don't like current prices? Increase your ganking.

Learn to read genius.

Where in there am I expresing MY opinion. Good lord, I told you WHAT CCP TOLD US, not my opinion.

People blasted the OP for stating miners drive down the cost of minerals, and flat out told him he was wrong, CCP says otherwise.



actually, you told us what ccp told you from a very small time period. i believe it was from the very same devblog that claims every one using nothing but mackinaws was "diversity".

again, if you actually look at the market data trit is up 50% on this time last year. granted, the number of miners have nothing to do with it but the statement "miners are earning less isk" is a complete lie.

It was the dev blog about the impact that the mining and exhumer changes in Inferno.

It wasn't about a "very small time period", it was about what people were doing AFTER the changes in inferno.
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=74033
Quote:
The mining ship changes have led to a very large increase in mined volume. The new versions of the ships clearly provide useful mining alternatives to pilots willing to trade off some mining output for a reduced risk of suicide ganks or less workload shoveling ore to a jet can. Of course, the last part means greater opportunities for AFK-mining. That, in turn, probably explains why the Retriever has become the most commonly used mining ship, and also why the increase in mining activity is focused on high-security space.

What effect did this increase in mining activity have on the price of minerals and ice? The most notable mineral price changes in August were a 25% drop in Morphite prices and a 16% fall in Nocxium prices, while September and October changes in mineral prices were quite limited. However, the price indices for ice and ice products dropped by 33%, both in August and September, before stabilizing in October.


I shouldn't have to link and paste this crap for you lazy ass people who can't bothered to read a ******* dev blog.

Trit isn't the only mineral that gets mined.

I'll take CCP's word over yours any day.
You can't argue against what CCP said, wtf.

You don't make more isk when the prices go down, and CCP said they went down, BECAUSE OF MINING ACTIVITY.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#50 - 2013-01-14 16:24:49 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:

I understand that it's hard for you to believe. but I am not and never will be a new order associate. Actually I think the new order is doing it wrong, and they're missing many chances to improve their organization. I've been parroting my anti-hi sec position for years, long before James 315's new order manifesto.

you right.

It happened so i have never seen your anti-highsec posts before James315. And when it happened your posts look like simple rephrasing of his own posts. So yea. For me it is hard to believe.

However as you say this - why not? It's not that i really need to believe to anything. You are separate warrior? Ok. Will try to remember this fact reading your posts next time. Not sure if it will change anything tho: usually i answer to post and not to person.


Check eve-search and see for yourself.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#51 - 2013-01-14 16:25:43 UTC
silens vesica wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
silens vesica wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:


Keep telling the OP he's an idiot for pointing out that miners drive down the cost of minerals by overmining.


CCP TOLD US THEY ARE YOU TOOLS!

And we don't really care. Poorly-thought-out screed is still poorly thought-out.


You don't like current prices? Increase your ganking.

Learn to read genius.

Where in there am I expresing MY opinion. Good lord, I told you WHAT CCP TOLD US, not my opinion.

People blasted the OP for stating miners drive down the cost of minerals, and flat out told him he was wrong, CCP says otherwise.

Reading failure is not mine.

Do. Not. Care. that CCP told us this, or told us that. That is quite beside my point, which is that the OP is still poorly organized, full of muddy thought, and is excessively wordy.

Obviously it is, you quoted me and are crying about other stuff entirely unrelated to anything I wrote.

In what world is that no a failure to understand what you read.
YOU quoted ME and are arguing something I didn't even write, how is that not a failure in comprehension.


If you're going to quote me, then respond to what I wrote, not what you imagined.
Dave stark
#52 - 2013-01-14 16:28:22 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

It was the dev blog about the impact that the mining and exhumer changes in Inferno.

It wasn't about a "very small time period", it was about what people were doing AFTER the changes in inferno.
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=74033
Quote:
The mining ship changes have led to a very large increase in mined volume. The new versions of the ships clearly provide useful mining alternatives to pilots willing to trade off some mining output for a reduced risk of suicide ganks or less workload shoveling ore to a jet can. Of course, the last part means greater opportunities for AFK-mining. That, in turn, probably explains why the Retriever has become the most commonly used mining ship, and also why the increase in mining activity is focused on high-security space.

What effect did this increase in mining activity have on the price of minerals and ice? The most notable mineral price changes in August were a 25% drop in Morphite prices and a 16% fall in Nocxium prices, while September and October changes in mineral prices were quite limited. However, the price indices for ice and ice products dropped by 33%, both in August and September, before stabilizing in October.


I shouldn't have to link and paste this crap for you lazy ass people who can't bothered to read a ******* dev blog.

Trit isn't the only mineral that gets mined.

I'll take CCP's word over yours any day.
You can't argue against what CCP said, wtf.

You don't make more isk when the prices go down, and CCP said they went down, BECAUSE OF MINING ACTIVITY.


yes i just found the dev blog myself.
oh look, morphite (not found in high sec) and nocxium (found in very small proprortion in high sec). both pretty much totally irrelevant in a thread about high sec mining.

also, as i edited my post to show, mineral prices as a whole went up. in ccp's own words.

so, as ccp said, mineral prices went up. also, i am making more money because mineral prices went up; look at the market graphs. the market graphs are also ccp's word. i am making more isk now than i did last year, because mineral prices went up. it's that simple. ccp can analyse one mineral, over an irrelevant time period, and say what they want. that doesn't reflect the income of high sec miners when using morphite and nocxium as your example when the staple of empire miners is trit, pyerite, and partially mexallon.
TharOkha
0asis Group
#53 - 2013-01-14 16:31:30 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
...stufff...

I also heard that hisec miners ean little children.

....because of hisec miners

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#54 - 2013-01-14 17:03:38 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

It was the dev blog about the impact that the mining and exhumer changes in Inferno.

It wasn't about a "very small time period", it was about what people were doing AFTER the changes in inferno.
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=74033
Quote:
The mining ship changes have led to a very large increase in mined volume. The new versions of the ships clearly provide useful mining alternatives to pilots willing to trade off some mining output for a reduced risk of suicide ganks or less workload shoveling ore to a jet can. Of course, the last part means greater opportunities for AFK-mining. That, in turn, probably explains why the Retriever has become the most commonly used mining ship, and also why the increase in mining activity is focused on high-security space.

What effect did this increase in mining activity have on the price of minerals and ice? The most notable mineral price changes in August were a 25% drop in Morphite prices and a 16% fall in Nocxium prices, while September and October changes in mineral prices were quite limited. However, the price indices for ice and ice products dropped by 33%, both in August and September, before stabilizing in October.


I shouldn't have to link and paste this crap for you lazy ass people who can't bothered to read a ******* dev blog.

Trit isn't the only mineral that gets mined.

I'll take CCP's word over yours any day.
You can't argue against what CCP said, wtf.

You don't make more isk when the prices go down, and CCP said they went down, BECAUSE OF MINING ACTIVITY.


yes i just found the dev blog myself.
oh look, morphite (not found in high sec) and nocxium (found in very small proprortion in high sec). both pretty much totally irrelevant in a thread about high sec mining.

also, as i edited my post to show, mineral prices as a whole went up. in ccp's own words.

so, as ccp said, mineral prices went up. also, i am making more money because mineral prices went up; look at the market graphs. the market graphs are also ccp's word. i am making more isk now than i did last year, because mineral prices went up. it's that simple. ccp can analyse one mineral, over an irrelevant time period, and say what they want. that doesn't reflect the income of high sec miners when using morphite and nocxium as your example when the staple of empire miners is trit, pyerite, and partially mexallon.

What you showed are things that happend AFTER a price decrease.

A drop and then a slight rise does not mean an overal increase, and they didn't say there was an overal increase of .9%, they were talking about JUST OCTOBER.

Come on man, you pulled a single sentence:
Quote:
The index values for October are:


October 2012
1 Month Change
12 Month Change

Mineral Price Index
120.8
0.9%
59.2%

Primary Producer Price Index
86.4
-3.0%
7.7%

Secondary Producer Price Index
108.9
-1.9%
-2.1%

Consumer Price Index
81.2
2.1%
19.4%


As previously mentioned, mineral price changes in October were quite limited, mostly cancelling each other out, resulting in a total change of 0.9%. The 3% deflation in the Primary Producer Price Index was mainly driven by moon materials and datacores. Datacores are still falling after Factional Warfare pilots became their primary suppliers. However, the drop in moon material prices would be a case for a wholly separate and risky study, including cartel dynamics and rumours thereof. The 2% deflation in the Secondary Producer Price Index was primarily driven by falling prices of Tech II construction components (caused by lower moon material prices), and from salvaged materials, which fell by less than 7% but weigh very heavily in the index. Finally, the 2% inflation in consumer prices is almost solely driven by PLEX prices, while most other consumer products experienced deflation in October. Without PLEX, the CPI would have shown 1% deflation.


Also, the morphite and nocxium changes were THE MOST NOTABLE.

Those devaluations could very easily be attributed to a drastic reduction in hulk manufacturing. However, that's speculation becuase CCP didn't give any indication why high ends saw such a drastic drop at the same time that considerably more people started mining in high sec.

Also the proc isn't a high sec mining ship, and not until inferno was there ever a mining ship designed specifically to go into hostile areas and mine.

More mining, means more volume, wich means more supply, which results in lower prices. You don't need a degree in economics to know this.

Dave stark
#55 - 2013-01-14 17:16:50 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

It was the dev blog about the impact that the mining and exhumer changes in Inferno.

It wasn't about a "very small time period", it was about what people were doing AFTER the changes in inferno.
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=74033
Quote:
The mining ship changes have led to a very large increase in mined volume. The new versions of the ships clearly provide useful mining alternatives to pilots willing to trade off some mining output for a reduced risk of suicide ganks or less workload shoveling ore to a jet can. Of course, the last part means greater opportunities for AFK-mining. That, in turn, probably explains why the Retriever has become the most commonly used mining ship, and also why the increase in mining activity is focused on high-security space.

What effect did this increase in mining activity have on the price of minerals and ice? The most notable mineral price changes in August were a 25% drop in Morphite prices and a 16% fall in Nocxium prices, while September and October changes in mineral prices were quite limited. However, the price indices for ice and ice products dropped by 33%, both in August and September, before stabilizing in October.


I shouldn't have to link and paste this crap for you lazy ass people who can't bothered to read a ******* dev blog.

Trit isn't the only mineral that gets mined.

I'll take CCP's word over yours any day.
You can't argue against what CCP said, wtf.

You don't make more isk when the prices go down, and CCP said they went down, BECAUSE OF MINING ACTIVITY.


yes i just found the dev blog myself.
oh look, morphite (not found in high sec) and nocxium (found in very small proprortion in high sec). both pretty much totally irrelevant in a thread about high sec mining.

also, as i edited my post to show, mineral prices as a whole went up. in ccp's own words.

so, as ccp said, mineral prices went up. also, i am making more money because mineral prices went up; look at the market graphs. the market graphs are also ccp's word. i am making more isk now than i did last year, because mineral prices went up. it's that simple. ccp can analyse one mineral, over an irrelevant time period, and say what they want. that doesn't reflect the income of high sec miners when using morphite and nocxium as your example when the staple of empire miners is trit, pyerite, and partially mexallon.

What you showed are things that happend AFTER a price decrease.

A drop and then a slight rise does not mean an overal increase, and they didn't say there was an overal increase of .9%, they were talking about JUST OCTOBER.

Come on man, you pulled a single sentence:

*snip*

Also, the morphite and nocxium changes were THE MOST NOTABLE.

Those devaluations could very easily be attributed to a drastic reduction in hulk manufacturing. However, that's speculation becuase CCP didn't give any indication why high ends saw such a drastic drop at the same time that considerably more people started mining in high sec.

Also the proc isn't a high sec mining ship, and not until inferno was there ever a mining ship designed specifically to go into hostile areas and mine.

More mining, means more volume, wich means more supply, which results in lower prices. You don't need a degree in economics to know this.



so the minerals only rose in october, and only minerals not relevant to high sec went down. that's all we can conclude from the dev blog. basically the dev blog provides nothing of use to this thread.

the fact of the matter is that these new order people (who seriously need a better name) claim that all these miners are forcing prices down, however the price of high sec minerals has basically done nothing but rise over the last 12 months if we look at the graphs in the market window. the dev blog provides nothing that contributes to the discussion.

no, you don't need a degree in economics to know how supply and demand works. however it seems you need more than two brain cells to realise that even though supply from miners has gone up, price has also gone up. which means one of two things overall supply fell, or demand rose. we both know which one of those it is.

in short, mineral prices are not falling (in truth, right now they're all over the damn place because of tiericide), and miners are making more isk now than they were 12 months ago. that is the fact of the matter.
Randolph Rothstein
whatever corp.
#56 - 2013-01-14 17:25:12 UTC
i agree with OP

in player driven economy one thing you dont want is to let people drive the economy,thats just wrong X miners should stop drive the mineral prices down aaand...ok i got nothing Roll
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#57 - 2013-01-14 17:28:50 UTC
Randolph Rothstein wrote:
i agree with OP

in player driven economy one thing you dont want is to let people drive the economy,thats just wrong X miners should stop drive the mineral prices down aaand...ok i got nothingRoll


Funny how that works, eh? Twisted
Pandora Barzane
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2013-01-14 17:29:17 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
I've been parroting


so true.
CCP Falcon
#59 - 2013-01-14 17:36:29 UTC

Troll thread.

Locked.

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
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