These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Rebalance the tormentor, again.
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-01-13 19:21:45 UTC
So the tormentor was rebalanced during crucible and was a decent ship, then all the other frigates got buffed leaving the tormentor in the dust.
It is now basically a incursus but inferior in every way imaginable. Now that the amarr are a drone race maybe the tormentor should be retooled as an amarr tristan. The amarr kinda have a drone boat in the crucifier but it only has 3 drones and no bonuses.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
tankus2
HeartVenom Inc.
#2 - 2013-01-13 19:31:26 UTC
This would be a fair idea, I'd support this!

Where the science gets done
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-01-14 03:47:36 UTC
I really think it was really silly of CCP to rebalance the tormentor before the others because it was designed to compete with the old frigates. Now its outclassed and once again we have bad ships. They should have boosted the rifter and tormentor along with the other frigates instead of forgetting about them rather derpily instead of doing it when it was easiest.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#4 - 2013-01-14 03:51:23 UTC
+1
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#5 - 2013-01-14 04:20:57 UTC
The Tormentor is great. It's a Punisher that loses a small amount of tank in exchange for a web.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-01-14 04:33:28 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
The Tormentor is great. It's a Punisher that loses a small amount of tank in exchange for a web.

how do you fit a web on a punisher? Two midslots, it is probably going to be a propolsion mod or scram unless your doing some sort of lol fit with an active tank on it in which case you still don't fit webs. The punisher also has a massive buffer and good dps. The tormentor has the same dps, if your doing an active tank on it then the incursus is also better than it , while doing more dps, needing less cap, and being faster. Their is literally nothing a tormentor can do that other frigates can't do better. Not to mention it doesn't fit in CCP's current rebalancing plan.

They are currently making amarr drone boats appear throughout the amarr ship line up with the addition of the dragoon, and the changes to the prophecy coming up. The crucifier shares the arbitrators TD bonus but its drone capability and bonuses are greatly diminished. The tormentor has 0 analog at higher ship sizes. The executioner leads to an omen and a punisher goes maller, but what is the tormentor? A mediocre speed, meh dps, mediocre tank ship?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-01-14 04:51:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
The minmatar have the exact same thing going on in their current ship lineup. The bellicose and the arbitrator are the only two combat ewar cruisers. The minmatar have a dedicated target painting ship in the vigil and a dedicated missile ship in the breacher. The amarr have a ewar cruiser with no drone bonuses but no drone bonus frigate.

Crucifier/Tormentor-> Arbitrator
Vigil/Breacher-> Bellicose

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#8 - 2013-01-14 12:50:00 UTC
+1
Tormentor is a joke compared to Tristan.
Main problem is that the new combat frigs in general s....
Kestrel and Breacher aren´t good too. Tristan is actually one of the most beloved T1 frigs in game it seems.

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-01-14 13:34:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
The tormentor could launch four lights and have 2 high slots 3 mid slots and 4 low slots. A Tankier tristan with less dps. The extra low provides room for a drone damage amp but I suppose it could be shorted a little cpu to make that fitting less viable?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Lavitakus Bromier
WTF Bunnies
#10 - 2013-01-14 15:35:00 UTC
+1 I've always liked this ship and drones are my favs.

Comment on the puni I run ab and a Web. best combo.
Hakan MacTrew
Konrakas Forged
Solyaris Chtonium
#11 - 2013-01-14 15:50:52 UTC
Lavitakus Bromier wrote:
+1 I've always liked this ship and drones are my favs.

Comment on the puni I run ab and a Web. best combo.

A good combo for PvE, not PvP which is what people we commenting on and where the confusuion was.

I have to admit, the Tormentor does feel like it doesn't know what it is at the moment.

Personally, I would probably give it 15mb or 20mb of bandwidth, with space for about 40m3 or 50m3 of drones for spares. This would give it tactical flexability so it could put out utility drones or combat drones depending on its needs. I would give it the option to mount turrets or launchers like the other Amarr drone boats, (especially given that the Amarr only have 2 frigate sized missile ships and their both T2.) As for bonuses, one to drone speed and tracking (say 7.5% per level towards both) and a bonus to either cap recharge or armour hp. I can't remember if its meant to be tanky or agile but it would make a good little brawler this way.

Friends
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#12 - 2013-01-14 17:03:55 UTC
Colt Blackhawk wrote:
+1
Tormentor is a joke compared to Tristan.
Main problem is that the new combat frigs in general s....
Kestrel and Breacher aren´t good too. Tristan is actually one of the most beloved T1 frigs in game it seems.



I'm pretty sure my Breacher will take your Tristan....

Actually i'm pretty sure my kestrel would too.. The tristan really isn't that good..


Out of the two i think the punisher needs way more love though.. Torm isn't good though.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Juan Thang
Optimistic Wasteland Inc.
Fraternity.
#13 - 2013-01-14 17:09:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Juan Thang
Commander Ted wrote:
So the tormentor was rebalanced during crucible and was a decent ship, then all the other frigates got buffed leaving the tormentor in the dust.
It is now basically a incursus but inferior in every way imaginable. Now that the amarr are a drone race maybe the tormentor should be retooled as an amarr tristan. The amarr kinda have a drone boat in the crucifier but it only has 3 drones and no bonuses.


Amarr will never be a drone race like the gallente, they're adding some drones to make them more viable seeing as tracking disruptors pretty much Nerf all the dps amarr can do, if your complaining the tormentor isnt good enough your not using it right, maybe as a sniper or t1 interceptor.

Or maybe the tormentor has been brought out as a lvl 1 mission ship, i think i remember getting the bpc for them way back in the tutorials.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#14 - 2013-01-14 18:04:50 UTC
Am I the only one who misses the T1 frigate rocket option in the Amarr lineup?

Let the Tormentor take on the rocket duty of the old Inquisitor and add 5m3 bandwidth to the Crucifier. The lineup is the most boring of the lot with lasers, lasers everywhere Sad
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-01-14 22:46:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
Juan Thang wrote:

Amarr will never be a drone race like the gallente, they're adding some drones to make them more viable seeing as tracking disruptors pretty much Nerf all the dps amarr can do, if your complaining the tormentor isnt good enough your not using it right, maybe as a sniper or t1 interceptor.

Or maybe the tormentor has been brought out as a lvl 1 mission ship, i think i remember getting the bpc for them way back in the tutorials.

Are you on crack?
The arbitrator, dragoon, and new prophecy all have drones as their primary source of DPS and only have bonuses to drones for weapons.
Also in what universe is the tormentor the sniper or interceptor? It has no range bonuses and its slow as a skinned snail.

I'm complaining its not good enough because all of its stats mirror the incursus but toned down. It's not that it sucks, it is just directly inferior from every angle. It's not that it has a unique ability that other ships can't do or some minor stat that can be exploited in a fight, it is a carbon copy of a incursus with worse stats.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
tankus2
HeartVenom Inc.
#16 - 2013-01-14 22:53:42 UTC
though it gets pulse lasers instead of blasters, giving it better range as well as range dictation.

still, turning the tormentor into either a missile or drone boat (more likely drones) is a positive step. Certainly allows it to better fill a niche that the other Amarrian ships overlook.

Where the science gets done
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-01-14 22:57:13 UTC
As for a rocket ship I believe CCP stated at one point that then do not plan to ever add missles as a primary amarr weapon in the T1 lineup. The prophecy's 4 missile slots in the rebalance thread however does make me think.

Perhaps the tormentor should also have two launcher and two turret hardpoints so it can do either.

So far the options for how a drone tormentor would look are very obviously laid out by CCP precedent.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#18 - 2013-01-14 23:04:34 UTC
Quote:
how do you fit a web on a punisher? Two midslots, it is probably going to be a propolsion mod or scram unless your doing some sort of lol fit with an active tank on it in which case you still don't fit webs. The punisher also has a massive buffer and good dps. The tormentor has the same dps, if your doing an active tank on it then the incursus is also better than it , while doing more dps, needing less cap, and being faster. Their is literally nothing a tormentor can do that other frigates can't do better. Not to mention it doesn't fit in CCP's current rebalancing plan.


Um, you missed the point. The punisher will not have a web. The tormentor will. From ~5km to the edge of scram range the Tormentor will beat pretty much anything else. The Tristan can be fit comparably, but its damage is almost entirely destroyable.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-01-14 23:14:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
Kahega Amielden wrote:

Um, you missed the point. The punisher will not have a web. The tormentor will. From ~5km to the edge of scram range the Tormentor will beat pretty much anything else. The Tristan can be fit comparably, but its damage is almost entirely destroyable.


Any other ship with a web will kill a tormentor. Oh look a atron/executioner! U DEAD. OH LOOK ANY OTHER BRAWLING FRIGATE WITH 3+ MIDSLOTS! At least the punisher had the virtue of being a brick with amazing resists that help when logi is around. Then while your shooting that tristan's drones that he can suck in/replace he is killing you! Maybe he had a small neut fitted, boy am I sure glad I have that reduction to cap use bonus, oh I can't shoot him anyway! Also what is the point of a tormentor when it is nothing more than a incursus with lesser stats and it's only bonus other than gun damage is only makes said weapon system not suck your capacitor into oblivion.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#20 - 2013-01-15 00:16:09 UTC
Quote:
Any other ship with a web will kill a tormentor. Oh look a atron/executioner! U DEAD. OH LOOK ANY OTHER BRAWLING FRIGATE WITH 3+ MIDSLOTS! At least the punisher had the virtue of being a brick with amazing resists that help when logi is around. Then while your shooting that tristan's drones that he can suck in/replace he is killing you! Maybe he had a small neut fitted, boy am I sure glad I have that reduction to cap use bonus, oh I can't shoot him anyway! Also what is the point of a tormentor when it is nothing more than a incursus with lesser stats and it's only bonus other than gun damage is only makes said weapon system not suck your capacitor into oblivion.


Atron/executioner are made of paper. Other brawling frigates may be able to close due to the Tormentor's low speed, eventually..but the Tormentor is still tanky and still capable of fighting up close. By the time most other brawling frigates get point blank, they will be half dead.

Tristan damage is pitiful without drones. It has two unbonused turret hardpoints, which can either be rails (laughable DPS) or blasters (slightly less laughable and requires you get point blank). Given that even bonused drones are exceedingly squishy, this does count as a notable weakness.
12Next page