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Proposal: Higher Penalties for High Security Space Attacks (Ganks)

First post
Author
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#141 - 2011-10-24 21:34:56 UTC
No offense Jack...I just want to make the joke...

You two need to get a room.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#142 - 2011-10-24 21:41:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Drake Draconis
Smiling Menace wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
Stop pushing your game on me....and get over yourself.


^^ This. Stop pushing your game on everyone else...and get over yourself.



who said I was pushing "my" game on anyone?

All I've ever done is argue various points...not once did I demand one bloody thing.

If anything you should learn to read carefully and stop jumping to conclusions on what you THINK you see between the lines.


Not once did I indicate I was agianst suicide ganking...only that its a little too easy.
Not once did I indicate I was sore over losing a ship...not lost one mining ship to a gank fest....unless you call WHS as a count....didn't think so.


Yet everyone seems to think I'm buthurt over this so called "imaginitive issue" that people assume that I have.

And Jack over there should see a psychratrist....PTSD maybe?

Because he obviously has no self control to telling me what for and tehn telling me to "off myself' (implied) yet I have no right to reflect that back...seriously?

That's like saying someone has the right to suicide gank me/myself but don't you DARE do it back to me/him or ill #### you over.

That's rich...seriously....hillarity to be sure.

I get accused of a multiple of things that are hillariously stupid beyond all reason for logical basis of "I suck" because I choose to take cautious routes...because I choose to not undock my ships or "my fail fleet" in the face of overwhelming fierpower and odds that everyone would deem as a collasial stupid move in the first place.

No one said I had to do one damn thing you people seem to think I MUST DO OR ELSE YOU SUX.

If it means I keep my goodies and have the option to use/employ thme as I choose then I guess I'm the most horrible player in the history of EVE Online.

But what does that make you?

The one who will fly in the face of an entire fleet and lose ships.

What about the fellow who lost his 6 plex and someone walked off with billions if not an entire half yaer of subscription time? What does that make him?

Brilliant? Genius?

I thought it was common sense not to fly a shuttle near jita or any where near a market hub with valueable goods.
Yet you write this off as a "calcuated risk"

Calcuated my @$$
If your the mighty and respectful Jack Carrigan...you should fire that member for imcompetecne..the same you did to the other corporations.

THAT...is what I call a phoney.

But your too busy emo-raging on me...so alas...I can't help that.

This game has very serious rules...one you yourself have quoted me...

Do not fly what you can't afford to lose.
You undock you agree to get your ass blown up anywhere including High Security space...High Sec is not safe..its safer.

Yet you call me a fail pilot for taking those warnings literally and true to the very words they mean.

am I supposed to lose tons of ships to win the game?

I'm sorry...I find that ******** beyond all reason.

I don't get into a fight I know I will lose because I'd like to able to get to the next one that I Will likely get out of in one piece if not fair better.

Sorry Jack...I don't like walking to bars and beating the living crap out of 1 Guy only to get myself in the hospital with the 15 people beating me up.

I'm not that guy...and I don't play the game that way.

If you think thats wrong...well sucks to be you pal...because this is who I am and I will play this game the way I want to.
No different than you...and you or anyone else have utterly no right to tell me to quit this game when you enjoy the very same blanant foolish behaivour you impose on me.

THAT is pushing a game on someone.

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Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
#143 - 2011-10-24 21:55:10 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
No offense Jack...I just want to make the joke...

You two need to get a room.


None taken, as I appreciate good humor unlike some people around here.

I actually laughed. And is Draconis still posting? I stopped paying attention because I was busy doing something productive, like making ISK.

I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Devil your parents warned you about.

||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||

Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#144 - 2011-10-24 22:00:29 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:
Smiling Menace wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
Stop pushing your game on me....and get over yourself.


^^ This. Stop pushing your game on everyone else...and get over yourself.



who said I was pushing "my" game on anyone?

All I've ever done is argue various points...not once did I demand one bloody thing.

If anything you should learn to read carefully and stop jumping to conclusions on what you THINK you see between the lines.


Not once did I indicate I was agianst suicide ganking...only that its a little too easy.
Not once did I indicate I was sore over losing a ship...not lost one mining ship to a gank fest....unless you call WHS as a count....didn't think so.


Yet everyone seems to think I'm buthurt over this so called "imaginitive issue" that people assume that I have.

And Jack over there should see a psychratrist....PTSD maybe?

Because he obviously has no self control to telling me what for and tehn telling me to "off myself' (implied) yet I have no right to reflect that back...seriously?

That's like saying someone has the right to suicide gank me/myself but don't you DARE do it back to me/him or ill #### you over.

That's rich...seriously....hillarity to be sure.

I get accused of a multiple of things that are hillariously stupid beyond all reason for logical basis of "I suck" because I choose to take cautious routes...because I choose to not undock my ships or "my fail fleet" in the face of overwhelming fierpower and odds that everyone would deem as a collasial stupid move in the first place.

No one said I had to do one damn thing you people seem to think I MUST DO OR ELSE YOU SUX.

If it means I keep my goodies and have the option to use/employ thme as I choose then I guess I'm the most horrible player in the history of EVE Online.

But what does that make you?

The one who will fly in the face of an entire fleet and lose ships.

What about the fellow who lost his 6 plex and someone walked off with billions if not an entire half yaer of subscription time? What does that make him?

Brilliant? Genius?

I thought it was common sense not to fly a shuttle near jita or any where near a market hub with valueable goods.
Yet you write this off as a "calcuated risk"

Calcuated my @$$
If your the mighty and respectful Jack Carrigan...you should fire that member for imcompetecne..the same you did to the other corporations.

THAT...is what I call a phoney.

But your too busy emo-raging on me...so alas...I can't help that.

This game has very serious rules...one you yourself have quoted me...

Do not fly what you can't afford to lose.
You undock you agree to get your ass blown up anywhere including High Security space...High Sec is not safe..its safer.

Yet you call me a fail pilot for taking those warnings literally and true to the very words they mean.

am I supposed to lose tons of ships to win the game?

I'm sorry...I find that ******** beyond all reason.

I don't get into a fight I know I will lose because I'd like to able to get to the next one that I Will likely get out of in one piece if not fair better.

Sorry Jack...I don't like walking to bars and beating the living crap out of 1 Guy only to get myself in the hospital with the 15 people beating me up.

I'm not that guy...and I don't play the game that way.

If you think thats wrong...well sucks to be you pal...because this is who I am and I will play this game the way I want to.
No different than you...and you or anyone else have utterly no right to tell me to quit this game when you enjoy the very same blanant foolish behaivour you impose on me.

THAT is pushing a game on someone.


I don't 'read between the lines'. I answer your 'points' as you have raised them as have many others in this thread.

The fact is you are quick to make assumptions about others but you get all bent out of shape when others do this to you.

I find it incredible that even in the face of so many people pointing out the flaws in your 'points', you still cling to the belief that you are right and everyone else is wrong? Now that is colossal arrogance.

You are trying to push your game on everyone else. Your 'point' is to make it more challenging for people to suicide gank. If that's not pushing your own agenda then nothing is. You still haven't answered my question as to whether you have even bothered to canvas opinion from suicide gankers as to whether they want any changes.

I have done my best to remain reasonable with you but you are clearly the most moronic excuse for a human being I have ever encountered. Good day to you sir.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#145 - 2011-10-24 22:06:28 UTC
Smiling Menace wrote:


I don't 'read between the lines'. I answer your 'points' as you have raised them as have many others in this thread.

The fact is you are quick to make assumptions about others but you get all bent out of shape when others do this to you.

I find it incredible that even in the face of so many people pointing out the flaws in your 'points', you still cling to the belief that you are right and everyone else is wrong? Now that is colossal arrogance.

You are trying to push your game on everyone else. Your 'point' is to make it more challenging for people to suicide gank. If that's not pushing your own agenda then nothing is. You still haven't answered my question as to whether you have even bothered to canvas opinion from suicide gankers as to whether they want any changes.

I have done my best to remain reasonable with you but you are clearly the most moronic excuse for a human being I have ever encountered. Good day to you sir.


Really?

Last I checked...its just you and Jack Carrigans gang who constantly smacktalk me upside down and everywhich way....they count for nothing.

You however are just 1 person.

And until you can come up with a reasonable rational argument...as opposed to EFT-warroioring....then you have nothing more than yourself to blame.

I meant what I said.

The ganking is easy....defense is **** poor on a mining barge....it is designed to mine.

To tank them is to decrease the profit margin at best...this is why I do not mine in obvious places.

And if someone wants to take your ship down...your going down.

There is no defense...CONCORD will not save you.

That is a fact.

Common sense says not to mine at that conclusion.

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Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#146 - 2011-10-24 22:20:21 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:
Smiling Menace wrote:


I don't 'read between the lines'. I answer your 'points' as you have raised them as have many others in this thread.

The fact is you are quick to make assumptions about others but you get all bent out of shape when others do this to you.

I find it incredible that even in the face of so many people pointing out the flaws in your 'points', you still cling to the belief that you are right and everyone else is wrong? Now that is colossal arrogance.

You are trying to push your game on everyone else. Your 'point' is to make it more challenging for people to suicide gank. If that's not pushing your own agenda then nothing is. You still haven't answered my question as to whether you have even bothered to canvas opinion from suicide gankers as to whether they want any changes.

I have done my best to remain reasonable with you but you are clearly the most moronic excuse for a human being I have ever encountered. Good day to you sir.


Really?

Last I checked...its just you and Jack Carrigans gang who constantly smacktalk me upside down and everywhich way....they count for nothing.

You however are just 1 person.

And until you can come up with a reasonable rational argument...as opposed to EFT-warroioring....then you have nothing more than yourself to blame.

I meant what I said.

The ganking is easy....defense is **** poor on a mining barge....it is designed to mine.

To tank them is to decrease the profit margin at best...this is why I do not mine in obvious places.

And if someone wants to take your ship down...your going down.

There is no defense...CONCORD will not save you.

That is a fact.

Common sense says not to mine at that conclusion.


For the third time, try and READ this time, I have a TANKED hulk and I have never lost a ship to suicide gankers.

This is not 'EFT Warrioring' as you so quaintly put it. It's a real ship that has a passive shield tank. How many more times do I have to tell you this? I don't use EFT. Stats are no substitute for actually using the ship.

Yes you will have a reduce profit but as you are getting isk for free from a belt anyway, what's the problem? I would rather reduced profit than failfit my 200+mil ship and lose it to someone in a 800k Thrasher.

Your point is moot. Doesn't matter what ship you fly, least of all barges, you will die if the suicide gankers bring enough firepower to bare. But this is at least a challenge as they will need to coordinate their actions to take down, say, an orca in a 0.8 system with 40 BS's.

*SIGH* For the love of God! For like the billionth time on these forums...CONCORD is not there to save you, they are there to punish the guilty. Just like in real life, a cop can't throw you in jail for thinking you really wanted to murder the stupid posters on these forums. You must actually commit a crime first.

If things were as bad as you think, why aren't the cost of minerals on the market spiraling out of control? The basic minerals from hi sec are pretty stable so this means that people are still mining perfectly happily.

I still stand by my earlier comments, you really are a moron.
Zanban
Lava Shark Productions
#147 - 2011-10-24 22:47:18 UTC
Can someone give me the TLDR version off this it looks as if drake is posting his topical book of constant ********* like he did the whole time I was in his alliance and i didn't read them mails either.
Angry Onions
League of Angered Gentlemen
#148 - 2011-10-24 23:03:13 UTC
similing Menace, I tip my space hat at you, you know whats up but you had the blessing of not having to deal with for 8 months.

Draconis, he got ya figured out from one thread, not sure if its pathetic on your part, or intelligence on his part. Probably both.
I have also never once took a jab at your personal life outside of my previous post. You claim we gave this "right" to **** talk our lives when we started it, but it was you that started insulting us personally, not the other way around. You lie and lie like their isn't a tomorrow out here because others don't have they knowledge Jack and I do about you. As smiling mentioned your arguements have been invalidated multiple times with various reasons that have truth and facts behind them. Yet you continue on to say "Nuhhuh! Your wrong and I'm right, I can type more than you, LISTEN TO ME GODDAMNIT" , is what 90% of your "arguements" are, the other ten percent is you attacking people publicly. Now you refuse evidence from people who actually practice tanking their Hulks. Damn you are stupid. Now your gonna reply calling me immature.... again. But I'm not spewing idiotic nonsense out for everyone to see.

So again, get out, boy.

S H I T P O S T I N G

Mortis vonShadow
Balanaz Mining and Development Inc.
#149 - 2011-10-24 23:18:16 UTC
+1 to Jack Carrigan, Angry Onion and Smiling Menace.

-1 to Drake Draconis.

Just some unsolicited advice, Drake: Get off the personal attacks, reguardless if they attack you personally. State your opinion backed by facts, and those that agree with you, will agree with you. But, getting off topic to personally attack someone is no way to win a debate. It belittles you and the whole topic we're debating.

To you other guys: Oohrah.Twisted

Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen.                   And some days, you're just a man with a gun.

Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#150 - 2011-10-24 23:23:03 UTC
Zanban wrote:
Can someone give me the TLDR version off this it looks as if drake is posting his topical book of constant ********* like he did the whole time I was in his alliance and i didn't read them mails either.


The gist of this post:

The OP got asploded in hi sec and thinks this sucks so wants to make life harder on suicide gankers so he can mine in peace with no interruptions whatsoever.

Drake has made 'points' agreeing with this that gankers need a 'challenge' without giving any real indication that this, in fact, is what suicide gankers want.

He has made lots of nonsensical arguments about not fitting a tank to a hulk as you will be instapopped by a passing velator because the suicide gankers have all the cards in this scenario.

TL;DR version:

Drake doesn't want his shiney ships asploded in hi sec and wants CONCORD to sit and mine with him so he has company.

Disclaimer: I am not a suicide ganker but it is a fact of eve life. Once again, they pay to play like the rest of us and if that's what they want to do, more power to them for enjoying the game their way.
Molpadia Devaux
Kamikaze Lemmings
#151 - 2011-10-24 23:24:44 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Molpadia Devaux wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
[quote


snip

.


I get the point. I am just saying it can't be technically called an exploit since he is playing by the rules CCP made. I guess my suggestion to resolve this would be to deny logoff while you have a GCC. If you have GCC and disconnect then your ship stays there completely vulnerable until your GCC is up or you are destroyed.

In fact if I recall correctly didn't they already say this is being done?

Again...what he is doing isn't technically an exploit. It is probably something every pirate does on a very regular basis and I wouldn't personally call it an exploit. I do however agree that the GCC mechanics need some changing to make them more fair to the gankee.



I think we agree the mechanics are broke, I consider it an exploit, it appears you think of it more in the vein of a workaround.

Like many of the mechanics and rules in Eve, they seem to be introduced with no thought as to how the clever or dishonest can 'workaround' the original intent. I do blame CCP when something isn't working the way they 'thought it would' or hype it as a 'consequence for one's own action' and corrective remedies are delayed or ignored.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#152 - 2011-10-24 23:28:42 UTC
Smiling Menace wrote:
Zanban wrote:
Can someone give me the TLDR version off this it looks as if drake is posting his topical book of constant ********* like he did the whole time I was in his alliance and i didn't read them mails either.


The gist of this post:

The OP got asploded in hi sec and thinks this sucks so wants to make life harder on suicide gankers so he can mine in peace with no interruptions whatsoever.

Drake has made 'points' agreeing with this that gankers need a 'challenge' without giving any real indication that this, in fact, is what suicide gankers want.

He has made lots of nonsensical arguments about not fitting a tank to a hulk as you will be instapopped by a passing velator because the suicide gankers have all the cards in this scenario.

TL;DR version:

Drake doesn't want his shiney ships asploded in hi sec and wants CONCORD to sit and mine with him so he has company.

Disclaimer: I am not a suicide ganker but it is a fact of eve life. Once again, they pay to play like the rest of us and if that's what they want to do, more power to them for enjoying the game their way.


Wrong.

Drake doesn't give a #### if he loses his ship...if someoen is out to tan my hyde its gonna happen regardless.

I'd just rather prefer to lose that ship with some sort of chance of getting out of it alive....and not hvnig to rely on the CONCORD to "save the day".

If you had been paying attention...youd know that by now.

I have yet to lose my "shiny" ship to a ganker...and im sure it will happen one way or another.
I couldn't care less.

I'm only arguing what I see..know...hear...and read.

Stop jumping to conclusions and you may get somewhere with me.

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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#153 - 2011-10-24 23:28:59 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:
If you had bothered to research and do a little reading.

You'd find this is a complete and utter waste of time.

Welcome to EVE Online.


A bit like the activities you pursue and the things you have done in your EVE career, am I right or am I right, Drake?


Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log

Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#154 - 2011-10-24 23:30:48 UTC
Molpadia Devaux wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Molpadia Devaux wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
[quote


snip

.


I get the point. I am just saying it can't be technically called an exploit since he is playing by the rules CCP made. I guess my suggestion to resolve this would be to deny logoff while you have a GCC. If you have GCC and disconnect then your ship stays there completely vulnerable until your GCC is up or you are destroyed.

In fact if I recall correctly didn't they already say this is being done?

Again...what he is doing isn't technically an exploit. It is probably something every pirate does on a very regular basis and I wouldn't personally call it an exploit. I do however agree that the GCC mechanics need some changing to make them more fair to the gankee.



I think we agree the mechanics are broke, I consider it an exploit, it appears you think of it more in the vein of a workaround.

Like many of the mechanics and rules in Eve, they seem to be introduced with no thought as to how the clever or dishonest can 'workaround' the original intent. I do blame CCP when something isn't working the way they 'thought it would' or hype it as a 'consequence for one's own action' and corrective remedies are delayed or ignored.


Ummm wrong thread you replied to?
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#155 - 2011-10-24 23:37:51 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:
Smiling Menace wrote:
Zanban wrote:
Can someone give me the TLDR version off this it looks as if drake is posting his topical book of constant ********* like he did the whole time I was in his alliance and i didn't read them mails either.


The gist of this post:

The OP got asploded in hi sec and thinks this sucks so wants to make life harder on suicide gankers so he can mine in peace with no interruptions whatsoever.

Drake has made 'points' agreeing with this that gankers need a 'challenge' without giving any real indication that this, in fact, is what suicide gankers want.

He has made lots of nonsensical arguments about not fitting a tank to a hulk as you will be instapopped by a passing velator because the suicide gankers have all the cards in this scenario.

TL;DR version:

Drake doesn't want his shiney ships asploded in hi sec and wants CONCORD to sit and mine with him so he has company.

Disclaimer: I am not a suicide ganker but it is a fact of eve life. Once again, they pay to play like the rest of us and if that's what they want to do, more power to them for enjoying the game their way.


Wrong.

Drake doesn't give a #### if he loses his ship...if someoen is out to tan my hyde its gonna happen regardless.

I'd just rather prefer to lose that ship with some sort of chance of getting out of it alive....and not hvnig to rely on the CONCORD to "save the day".

If you had been paying attention...youd know that by now.

I have yet to lose my "shiny" ship to a ganker...and im sure it will happen one way or another.
I couldn't care less.

I'm only arguing what I see..know...hear...and read.

Stop jumping to conclusions and you may get somewhere with me.


I was going to refute your comments yet again but instead i will just 'LOL!'.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#156 - 2011-10-24 23:42:27 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:


Stop jumping to conclusions and you may get somewhere with me.


Additionally, I think I speak for all of us here when I say that we don't really want go anywhere with you


Especially as you are someone who refers to themselves in the third person, which is incredibly lame and sad and not at all as 'tough guy' as you would like to believe.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log

Zanban
Lava Shark Productions
#157 - 2011-10-24 23:45:16 UTC
Drake if you knew how to properly tank a hulk then you won't lose it to a 1 man gank, as people have stated it can be done rather easy. This anit just point at drake, but being ganked is part of the game. Eve is one big pvp server it does suck but put on your big girls undies and deal with it. That or get eve.

People are going to gank people, or bait them, no matter what even if ccp put a penilty on said actions.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#158 - 2011-10-24 23:45:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Vertisce Soritenshi
Molpadia Devaux wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Molpadia Devaux wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
[quote


snip

.


I get the point. I am just saying it can't be technically called an exploit since he is playing by the rules CCP made. I guess my suggestion to resolve this would be to deny logoff while you have a GCC. If you have GCC and disconnect then your ship stays there completely vulnerable until your GCC is up or you are destroyed.

In fact if I recall correctly didn't they already say this is being done?

Again...what he is doing isn't technically an exploit. It is probably something every pirate does on a very regular basis and I wouldn't personally call it an exploit. I do however agree that the GCC mechanics need some changing to make them more fair to the gankee.



I think we agree the mechanics are broke, I consider it an exploit, it appears you think of it more in the vein of a workaround.

Like many of the mechanics and rules in Eve, they seem to be introduced with no thought as to how the clever or dishonest can 'workaround' the original intent. I do blame CCP when something isn't working the way they 'thought it would' or hype it as a 'consequence for one's own action' and corrective remedies are delayed or ignored.


Can't argue with ya there.

For the love of God people! Stop feeding the troll! (I know, I know...I fed him by saying that.)

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

Angry Onions
League of Angered Gentlemen
#159 - 2011-10-24 23:50:18 UTC
Notice how he only argues what he sees, hears and reads, but not what he knows. I FOUND THE PROBLEM!

S H I T P O S T I N G

Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#160 - 2011-10-24 23:52:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Drake Draconis
Mortis vonShadow wrote:
Just some unsolicited advice, Drake: Get off the personal attacks, reguardless if they attack you personally. State your opinion backed by facts, and those that agree with you, will agree with you. But, getting off topic to personally attack someone is no way to win a debate. It belittles you and the whole topic we're debating.


Thank you...however...

The very things you tell me not to do...they did in the first place.

Am I not entitlted to answer the accuser's?

You'd rather I roll over and just take it?

No thanks...that would make him keep it up...and he will not give up.
He never does.

That's why I'm hopping someone will test him and see if he really is "All dat".

I already know I'm not when it comes to "Peeveepee".

He sure as hell isn't.

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