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Optimal "MWD trick" rigs?
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Katja Norolyev
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-01-12 11:10:04 UTC
So if I were trying to put together an Orca optimized for executing the "Microwarp Drive trick" - align, activate MWD, cloak, deactivate MWD and wait, decloak, warp to, MWD finishes cycle and slings ship into warp - is the agility rig (low friction nozzle joints) the best one to use, or is the MWD duration one better, mathematically speaking? (Engine Thermal Sheilding, I think?)

The goal is to minimize the amount of time spent decloaked between breaking the gate cloak and activating the on-board cloak, and then deactivating the onboard cloak and hitting warp. Ideally, then, the MWD will operate almost exclusively under the burden of the cloak velocity penalty, so increasing the cycle time is a robust bonus, allowing the MWD more time to push up over the unmodified warp-velocity threshold. Obviously, the agility rigs simply help the ship reach that threshold faster no matter the applied penalties, but which rig reduces those two moments of vulnerability more effectively?
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#2 - 2013-01-12 12:05:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Vilnius Zar
I'm getting on dangerous territory here as I have never bothered to test it with an Orca, nor do I know of earlier threads in regards to this. So what I'm stating here will mostly be me assuming things and you know what they say about assumptions :P


Looking at EFT I don't think you can make it fully cloak/MWD capable, it simply seems too slow to align to get to 75% base speed within the MWD cycle resulting in still having to align while uncloaked before you actually warp. It will ofcourse help, especially with the align time itself (although you can also get that from using an AB) but also because you're cloaked for at least a portion of the alignment procedure.

Because of stacking penalties it doesn't work to just pile on the agility mods/rigs and my gut feeling tells me that 2 istabs + ACR + agility rig + MWD rig makes the most sense. Problem is ofcourse that relying on Thermal shielding rigs, prolonging your alignment time, means hostiles have more time to uncloak you. Still, I think it's the best combo but I'm not sure you'll actually get a full alignment out of your cloaked cycle.
Skurja Volpar
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
#3 - 2013-01-12 12:06:43 UTC
Polycarbon Engine Housing, and low friction nozzle joints.

But to be honest in an orca, I doubt you'd be able to make up enough speed to stop them just bumping you before the warp.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#4 - 2013-01-12 12:07:37 UTC
Skurja Volpar wrote:
Polycarbon Engine Housing, and low friction nozzle joints.

But to be honest in an orca, I doubt you'd be able to make up enough speed to stop them just bumping you before the warp.


Polycarbons are definitely NOT what you want.
Skurja Volpar
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
#5 - 2013-01-12 12:13:40 UTC
Lower inertia wouldn't help?
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#6 - 2013-01-12 12:23:59 UTC
Skurja Volpar wrote:
Lower inertia wouldn't help?

The inertia bonus from the polys is worse than from the nozzles so for alignment alone they'd be less good. For afk hauling they make good sense as they also up speed which helps when slowboating to gates. It's the same difference as with Nanofibers and Inertia stabs.
Dalts
Out of Fwocus
Fwodin's Call
#7 - 2013-01-12 14:14:56 UTC
MWD duration is a bad idea, that actually increases the time you are vunerable, as its at the end of the cycle that you can uncloak and warp.
Katja Norolyev
Doomheim
#8 - 2013-01-13 01:51:11 UTC
Some solid feedback here. Wouldn't mind a little more.

To the first poster; You are correct; with an Orca there is "dead air" on either side of the cloak, which is why it is so important to minimize those periods of vulnerability by selecting the correct rigs. That said, I currently have an Orca rigged/fit for hauling and have done extensive testing - even that suboptimally-fit orca has very, very little time decloaked and adrift if you simply overheat the MWD.

Overheating adds a step (and some cost) to the process, however, increasing the likelihood of making a mistake and losing everything. I was hoping that with ideal rigs and mods, I could achieve similar/better performance without overheating.


Dalts: All other things being equal, I would prefer the Nozzle joints as they would reduce the risk of being manually decloaked. But that is not the primary concern. I'm aware that the duration rigs will have me sitting on the gate longer, but as I will be doing so cloaked, the additional risk is acceptably low if they reduce my decloaked vulnerability time even a little more than the nozzle joints would.
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#9 - 2013-01-13 06:12:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Ines Tegator
To work, the Cloaked+MWD on align time has to be equal or less then the MWD cycle time. With all V skills, that's 10 seconds.

With all V skills, 3 Tech II Low Friction Nozzles, 1 Tech 2 Istab, and a 5% agility implant, I got the orca's align down to a speedy 26.7 seconds. Granted you get a little fudge room due to the aligning happening while you are activating the modules, but that's very short. There was nothing I could find that increased MWD duration. Nothing worked better then the nozzles and istabs.

I can't test this with EFT stats, but increasing MWD speed with implants may help. That should, in theory, get you up to your Non-Cloaked align speed sooner. I really doubt it will be enough to make it work; a good camp will have a fast ship to decloak you, and an orca is a huge target. Strategies that rely on your foes being incompetent are not reliable.

edit: aha, I didn't see the Thermal Shielding rigs. When I tried them, they increased the align time by about as much as they increased the MWD length, so I think it's a wash.

Overhaul Dscan!
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#10 - 2013-01-13 10:44:43 UTC
Ines Tegator wrote:
edit: aha, I didn't see the Thermal Shielding rigs. When I tried them, they increased the align time by about as much as they increased the MWD length, so I think it's a wash.


Not necessarily, if you keep adding agility mods/rigs you run into stacking penalty issues, so fitting more than 3 just stops being worth it and the MWD cycle rig starts looking good (apart from the prolonged align time ofcourse). Hence my "fit 2 istabs, one nozzle and one mwd cycle rig".
Katja Norolyev
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-01-14 00:54:20 UTC
Seems that nobody that has tested it in the field is perusing this forum. Guess I'll have to make a guinea pig of myself, after all. Once I get the money to do so, I'll post the results here.

Vilnius; Your assessment looks well thought out, and I'll certainly be giving it a try. The thermal rigs may be outright superior for the task, though, in which case I'd run two of those and no nozzles, since the thermals don't seem to have a stacking penalty.

As long as I'm here; I have to use a PG implant to fit the MWD+cloak on the Orca and keep my lows and other mids available. So excepting that implant slot, what implants would best aid me in acheiving this goal?