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T1 sucks , the Snowball has landed
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Gunship
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-01-12 08:19:07 UTC
I don't do a lot of plexing, normally moving as soon as I see a new target and I only make 5-20K LP a night for that reason. Now it's not a big issue, got other streams of income, but for our new players in corp its an up hill struggle at -50% they have a big dis-advantage compared to our wonderful opponents. Frustrating as it's as we all know largely farmer based. Minmatar just have more slaves and I don't think that's likely to change any time soon.

What I am saying in order for Amarr not to completely go off the map T2 should be the minimum. In fact I would be very happy to see T1-T5 scrapped and just give all T2.

just my 0.02 LP

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Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#2 - 2013-01-12 08:40:39 UTC
We aren't going to go completely off of the map. The impending Gallente invasion looks like it might be delayed. The systems that have been lost are the ones that are not 'home systems'. There are also quite a few Minmatar systems that are up there in terms of contested percentage.

As bad as T1 is its nowhere close to the quadruple priced debacle it was prior to Oct 22. If isk is a concern create jump clones around the battlefield. Dedicate one day a week to plexing a backwater system for yourself. At T2 I can pull in 400k a day. T1 should still net you 200k. You have a large selection of systems to plex as well so you wint be interrupted often.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#3 - 2013-01-12 08:44:36 UTC
Wrong. The tier system itself needs to be revised or better yet, reduced to a secondary modifier for anything of value, direct benefits should come from using/upgrading the individual systems/constellations.

Just having the possibility of a factor 5, or however high it is, difference in earning potential between two sides for doing the exact same things is beyond stupidity .. it is downright insane. Doubly so when the system is set up to benefit whomever has MOAR! people (alts in FW's case).

Alternatively, they could fix plexing (yeah, STILL BROKEN!) so that near-gunless frigs with starter skills are not able to do anything other than die horribly.
Problem, as much as I am loathe to say it, is that the current system encourages/mandates an extremely heavy use of alts (circumvent docking, risk mitigation, LP, etc.) which gives CCP a very real incentive not to change it .. especially now that the world is just coming to terms with being poor (read. $-crisis ebbing out).
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#4 - 2013-01-12 08:55:12 UTC
This argument is nothing new. This is the route that CCP has chosen and bemoaning it only creates food for trolls. I am rather sick of feeding trolls. Now please stop before Cerain notices the thread and writes four pages of diatribe and refutations that no one will really read as their eyes glaze over.
Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#5 - 2013-01-12 09:43:29 UTC
Oh CCP will do sth. The possibility that DUST will be a total fail because they wrecked fw is simply too high.
Main problem is they wrecked it completely. For years.
Minmatars are mostly sitting on billions over billions of ISK, caldari militia isn´t existent any more, amarr militia completely outgunned and outnumbered etc...

Won´t wonder if dust will be a total fail because of that. CCP needed too long to fix fw and hasn´t still fixed it yet.
With every day more they need it is getting more difficult to fix it.
I mean I remember June 2012. How long did CCP need to fix the ewar plex fw problem?
And how many months to fix the farming problem only to bring the farming problem some months later back???
Fail, total fail.

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#6 - 2013-01-12 10:00:14 UTC
Loki boosts won't be enough to save you now.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Feffri
Dead's Prostitutes
The Initiative.
#7 - 2013-01-12 10:14:23 UTC
**** forgot about dust... only a bigger advantage for gal/minnies. There going to be the only ones with the isk to buy the mercs. Awesome like they need even more advantages.
Cat Casidy
Percussive Diplomacy
Sedition.
#8 - 2013-01-12 10:21:50 UTC
Actually we had to fight our asses off for ikoskio because the dusties pushed it up to over 50% against us.

.
Feffri
Dead's Prostitutes
The Initiative.
#9 - 2013-01-12 10:30:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Feffri
Cat Casidy wrote:
Actually we had to fight our asses off for ikoskio because the dusties pushed it up to over 50% against us.


Are you sure, because you took ikoskio before dust was integrated fully. I don't think it was activated yet so they just had it on the default of which ever fw had it originally it gave them full points. I think only today would be the first day it's in affect.

Either way you guys have the isk and are going to be able to afford the mercs. **** most guys are pressed to get into t2 cruisers and you guys are titan dropping fw battleships. Isk war lost.. check :).. well everything lost, check
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#10 - 2013-01-12 10:35:46 UTC
I have 3 billion in cash, several billion in ships, and 2.4 million LP. If you are poor in FW you are doing it wrong.
SAJUK NIGARRA
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2013-01-12 10:37:20 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
The impending Gallente invasion looks like it might be delayed.


Amarr can thank Amun Khonsu for that . He managed to make us change our mind when were 2-3 days from moving in to help minnies take amarr station systems. Ofc, there might still be an influx of Gallente farmer toons, but for PVP and capturing relevant home systems, minnies can count us (DnD) out.
Feffri
Dead's Prostitutes
The Initiative.
#12 - 2013-01-12 10:42:51 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
I have 3 billion in cash, several billion in ships, and 2.4 million LP. If you are poor in FW you are doing it wrong.


I'm not poor but in cal mil you'd be shocked at how many guys are poor... problem now is new guys coming in are a little screwed but guess you can always take 5 days and train a minnie or gal incursus alt to run for their side.
Gunship
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2013-01-12 11:22:29 UTC
Feffri wrote:
[quote=Zarnak Wulf]I
I'm not poor but in cal mil you'd be shocked at how many guys are poor... problem now is new guys coming in are a little screwed but guess you can always take 5 days and train a minnie or gal incursus alt to run for their side.




You are indeed right, however it just adds more speed to the Snowball as I'm sure you are aware Blink

The system needs to change and changing the 5 values for T1-T5 to something useful surely is not that hard Shocked

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Takanuro
Eve Faction Trade Exchange
#14 - 2013-01-12 11:33:23 UTC
Gunship wrote:
I don't do a lot of plexing, normally moving as soon as I see a new target and I only make 5-20K LP a night for that reason. Now it's not a big issue, got other streams of income, but for our new players in corp its an up hill struggle at -50% they have a big dis-advantage compared to our wonderful opponents. Frustrating as it's as we all know largely farmer based. Minmatar just have more slaves and I don't think that's likely to change any time soon.

What I am saying in order for Amarr not to completely go off the map T2 should be the minimum. In fact I would be very happy to see T1-T5 scrapped and just give all T2.

just my 0.02 LP



Gunship, you yourself said you were putting an alt in minnie militia! Can't have your cake and eat it!

Unless we can maintain owning a few more systems than we do presently, T2 is not going to be held. I'm sure lots of corps are asking themselves what loyalty to Amarr actually means in a game with screwed up mechanics like FW is at the moment.

I've not seen any dev posts any the multitude of recent FW posts regarding farming etc though so there is nothing to indicate there will be any kind of intervention from them. Any Devs want to saying something please do!

Yes, we're going to die, but you're coming with us!
Dan Carter Murray
#15 - 2013-01-12 11:47:42 UTC
DCM wrote:

my 2 isk:

system upgrades need to be changed.
tier needs to be changed.
tier benefits need to be changed.


tier should be based solely on % of systems owned.
in other words there are 70 systems in amarr/minmatar FW.
amarr owns 21 and minmatar owns 49.
amarr have have 30% control so tier 2 and minmatar have 70% control so tier 4.

tier benefits
tier 1: 0% increased LP
tier 2: 5% increased LP
tier 3: 10% increased LP
tier 4: 15% increased LP, 0 LP for defensive plexing
tier 5: 20% increased LP, 0 LP for defensive plexing

change the system upgrade **** though.
level 0: nothing
level 1: 5% cheaper clones, 5% cheaper market orders, 5% plex rat dmg, 5% plex rat armor/shield repair, 5% plex rat armor/shield/structure
level 2: 10% cheaper clones, 10% cheaper market orders, 10% plex rat dmg, 10% plex rat armor/shield repair, 10% plex rat armor/shield/structure
level 3: 15% cheaper clones, 15% cheaper market orders, 15% plex rat dmg, 15% plex rat armor/shield repair, 15% plex rat armor/shield/structure
level 4: 20% cheaper clones, 20% cheaper market orders, 20% plex rat dmg, 20% plex rat armor/shield repair, 20% plex rat armor/shield/structure
level 5: 25% cheaper clones, 25% cheaper market orders, 25% plex rat dmg, 25% plex rat armor/shield repair, 25% plex rat armor/shield/structure

buffer: plexes time down when no enemies are inside (only times down back to original 0 time), plex NPCs scram and web in addition to their increased dmg, repping, and total armor/shield/structure hitpoints

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Gaia Aemilia
Cult of Zaragram II
#16 - 2013-01-12 11:52:45 UTC
Well, if you can't beat them, join them. That's is why the only thing I'm still doing in FW is plexing with a T1 frig with only a T1 Cloak/MWD/3+ WCS fitted. Orbit the button at 25km with MWD on, and as soon as hostiles warp in, you cloak. In case they catch you before you can cloak, you can still warp out with your 3+ WCS. In case they can kill you, which is highly unlikely, you only lose 1 million isk or so, while you can easily earn 100k-250k LP a day for defensive plexing.

Two, three years ago we used to have at least one fleet fight a week with over one hundred people involved in the Amarr/Minmatar warzone, with dozens of smaller ones almost daily. Now, the only thing worth doing is orbitting a button hours on end, competing with your friendly Chinese isk-farmer with his 50 alts.


I'm kind of at the point I'm hoping the Caldari and Amarr militias get wiped and never get the chance to recover, so Dust514 can fail alongside FW and CCP can reap what they sow.
Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#17 - 2013-01-12 11:54:34 UTC
Quote:
DCM wrote:

my 2 isk:

system upgrades need to be changed.
tier needs to be changed.
tier benefits need to be changed.


tier should be based solely on % of systems owned.
in other words there are 70 systems in amarr/minmatar FW.
amarr owns 21 and minmatar owns 49.
amarr have have 30% control so tier 2 and minmatar have 70% control so tier 4.

tier benefits
tier 1: 0% increased LP
tier 2: 5% increased LP
tier 3: 10% increased LP
tier 4: 15% increased LP, 0 LP for defensive plexing
tier 5: 20% increased LP, 0 LP for defensive plexing

change the system upgrade **** though.
level 0: nothing
level 1: 5% cheaper clones, 5% cheaper market orders, 5% plex rat dmg, 5% plex rat armor/shield repair, 5% plex rat armor/shield/structure
level 2: 10% cheaper clones, 10% cheaper market orders, 10% plex rat dmg, 10% plex rat armor/shield repair, 10% plex rat armor/shield/structure
level 3: 15% cheaper clones, 15% cheaper market orders, 15% plex rat dmg, 15% plex rat armor/shield repair, 15% plex rat armor/shield/structure
level 4: 20% cheaper clones, 20% cheaper market orders, 20% plex rat dmg, 20% plex rat armor/shield repair, 20% plex rat armor/shield/structure
level 5: 25% cheaper clones, 25% cheaper market orders, 25% plex rat dmg, 25% plex rat armor/shield repair, 25% plex rat armor/shield/structure

buffer: plexes time down when no enemies are inside (only times down back to original 0 time), plex NPCs scram and web in addition to their increased dmg, repping, and total armor/shield/structure hitpoints


Sounds like THE solution. Really. +1
Shame CCP didn´t get it fixed over all these almost 9 months since inferno.

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#18 - 2013-01-12 12:07:37 UTC
Gunship wrote:
I don't do a lot of plexing, normally moving as soon as I see a new target and I only make 5-20K LP a night for that reason. Now it's not a big issue, got other streams of income, but for our new players in corp its an up hill struggle at -50% they have a big dis-advantage compared to our wonderful opponents. Frustrating as it's as we all know largely farmer based. Minmatar just have more slaves and I don't think that's likely to change any time soon.

What I am saying in order for Amarr not to completely go off the map T2 should be the minimum. In fact I would be very happy to see T1-T5 scrapped and just give all T2.

just my 0.02 LP



Youre making about the same as minmatar because your stuff sells for more..

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Dan Carter Murray
#19 - 2013-01-12 12:11:47 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Gunship wrote:
I don't do a lot of plexing, normally moving as soon as I see a new target and I only make 5-20K LP a night for that reason. Now it's not a big issue, got other streams of income, but for our new players in corp its an up hill struggle at -50% they have a big dis-advantage compared to our wonderful opponents. Frustrating as it's as we all know largely farmer based. Minmatar just have more slaves and I don't think that's likely to change any time soon.

What I am saying in order for Amarr not to completely go off the map T2 should be the minimum. In fact I would be very happy to see T1-T5 scrapped and just give all T2.

just my 0.02 LP



Youre making about the same as minmatar because your stuff sells for more..


please show me your incorrect math

http://mfi.re/?j7ldoco 50GB free space @ MediaFire.com
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#20 - 2013-01-12 12:39:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Veshta Yoshida
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Youre making about the same as minmatar because your stuff sells for more..

It is a decent enough fairytale, and I am sure the more gullible among the population sleeps better at nights after hearing it.

But for it to actually be true the Amarr bread-earner items would need to sell at 5+ times the value of similar items from the Shakorites .. guess what .. market difference is no where near that, more like +20% or so.

Perhaps you meant the underdogs could sell in volume .. no wait, that also does not compute as the x5 modifiers applies to LP which is the basis of all the earnings.

In short: Unless you as an underdog has a sugar daddy to dump billions into your account on a monthly basis you will in fact not get anything close to the resources available to your enemy.

Edit: It may change once LP stockpiles are depleted and/or high-sec are denied majority of FW items, but under current conditions that will likely take years as the 9 months on the farm last year gave birth to ludicrous amounts.
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