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Solo PVP IS dead (here is what this eve meme really means)

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Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#21 - 2013-01-11 18:23:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
Pinaculus wrote:
Hasn't solo PvP always been insanely hard, very expensive, and incredibly time-consuming? And hasn't it always involved killing people that don't how to fit, fly, or run away? I'm just confused as to how this is news. Some dude in a T1 Arby finds a bunch of morons in blops ships gate-camping, gets them to aggress, then proceeds to bring in his logi alt so he can survive all the dps while he locks them down and kills them. They fail to retreat because they are stupid.

It's quintessential EVE! The only thing missing from this story is a booster alt (though I'm sure there was one somewhere).




Many things have changed in eve. I seem to remember a time when jetcan mining was extremely commonplace. You can find them everywhere that you looked and play take the ore games with little effort and search. Once you could warp to a belt in low sec and actually find a fight with confidence that there would be no cyno or local spike. It was like the exact mirror opposite to what you expect to happen now.



So no, I disagree, things have changed a great deal in EVE and PVP has not always been this way.

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Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2013-01-11 18:38:32 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
So no, I disagree, things have changed a great deal in EVE and PVP has not always been this way.

Indeed.

The amount of cowards, with no actual self esteem, has increased exponentially.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#23 - 2013-01-11 18:52:28 UTC
So are you saying that solo pilots win only against stupid pilots? My god I'm so st00pid.

Invalid signature format
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#24 - 2013-01-11 18:57:06 UTC
So all the efford you once put into training newbies like me to fly damp caracals against larger gangs were all in vain?

I had much respect for you, but all your negative posting has caused me to lose it. All if it.

❤️️💛💚💙💜
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2013-01-11 18:57:28 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
So are you saying that solo pilots win only against stupid pilots? My god I'm so st00pid.

So you keep losing in 1vs1 ??
ROXGenghis
Perkone
Caldari State
#26 - 2013-01-11 19:02:37 UTC
Gal'o Sengen wrote:
You're vastly overanalyzing that kill. The Arbitrator had taken more damage than it is possible for and Arbitrator to fit in the Killmail, and he was not fitting a Rep. It was faked, it's that simple.

That's a really interesting point, so I did the math to confirm it. How could that Arby take 15,225 damage?

The Arby as set up has 11,569 hit points according to EFT, so we have 3656 unaccounted-for hit points on the killmail.

But we still haven't considered passive shield recharge, which can be significant over extended periods of time.

The fight lasted ~15 minutes, and EFT says the Arby's passive shield recharge is 4 DPS at a zero-resist profile. This multiplies out to 3600 hit points repaired by shields during the fight.

If you add the Arby's buffer to the shield recharge value, you get 15,169, well within the margin of error and actually eerily close to 15,225. However, EFT's number is for peak recharge, and the Arby was probably pretty far from peak recharge most of the time, making it unlikely that it tanked a full 3600 hit points from just passive shield recharge.

I'm left unsure of what to believe. Maybe someone can point to an error in my analysis, or an alternative explanation for the large-ish amount of damage taken by the Arby.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#27 - 2013-01-11 19:05:54 UTC
You know a thread sucks when not even destination skill queue likes it.

Also IBTL.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#28 - 2013-01-11 19:32:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
Mizhir wrote:
So all the efford you once put into training newbies like me to fly damp caracals against larger gangs were all in vain?

I had much respect for you, but all your negative posting has caused me to lose it. All if it.




You probably didn't read the forums much back then because I have always spoke in negative in general discussion. I speak pleasant in the rookie section for people who need help (like the former you) and I post debate worthy trivia in out of pod experience. I even have a new and improved helpful signature for whoever bothers to click it.



About those caracals... we got a couple of really good fights and it was fun while it lasted. But, that was an excersize in "team work in cheap ships" over expensive ships and null sec blobs. A blob of noobs in remote sensor dampening caracals burning away from a target lobbing missiles at 100km is far from 1v1 PVP. The two ideas are just not related.

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Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#29 - 2013-01-11 19:36:02 UTC
ROXGenghis wrote:
[quote=Gal'o Sengen]
The Arby as set up has 11,569 hit points according to EFT, so we have 3656 unaccounted-for hit points on the killmail.
.



Have you accounted for EM dealing Redeemers and your average run of the mill leadership bonuses?

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Lexmana
#30 - 2013-01-11 19:37:45 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Roime wrote:
Funnily enough I find non-agreed 1vs1s every time I fly out solo, and not against ratters or tards, but against pilots who are looking for the very same thing. Yes, I sometimes die to camps, that is the risk I accept when flying true solo. I'm not in it for the stats, I want my kicks. I could roll with my perfect OGB and scanner alts, but that's small gang and it's more fun with real humans.



Lowsec is full of solo, and this is a fact. FW plexes and Retribution lit lowsec in wonderful flames, there's more pew than you can eat and all kinds of small ships and crazy fits.


Please educate me with volumes of well fit 1v1 KM's.

I know it is not much but you can check my killboard for dec + jan. All kills are solo though losses are mostly not.
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#31 - 2013-01-11 19:46:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
Those are decent stats and you look like you are having fun.





However....
This is not avocation for "PVP is alive and well" because your solo kills are just you moping up frigs in a neut Coercer. How else could those fights have ended? Would you expect to win against a Coercer (or other properly fitted destroyer) in a frigate? I would not. Would you?



How else could those fights have ended?

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Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#32 - 2013-01-11 19:51:32 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
So all the efford you once put into training newbies like me to fly damp caracals against larger gangs were all in vain?

I had much respect for you, but all your negative posting has caused me to lose it. All if it.




You probably didn't read the forums much back then because I have always spoke in negative in general discussion. I speak pleasant in the rookie section for people who need help (like the former you) and I post debate worthy trivia in out of pod experience. I even have a new and improved helpful signature for whoever bothers to click it.



About those caracals... we got a couple of really good fights and it was fun while it lasted. But, that was an excersize in "team work in cheap ships" over expensive ships and null sec blobs. A blob of noobs in remote sensor dampening caracals burning away from a target lobbing missiles at 100km is far from 1v1 PVP. The two ideas are just not related.


No, but we did still take fights against stronger forces and expoiting our advantages to get a few kill. Exactly like solo pvpers do.

❤️️💛💚💙💜
Lexmana
#33 - 2013-01-11 19:52:18 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Those are decent stats and you look like you are having fun.
However....
This is not avocation for "PVP is alive and well" because your solo kills are just you moping up frigs in a neut Coercer. How else could those fights have ended? Would you expect to win against a Coercer (or other properly fitted destroyer) in a frigate? I would not. Would you?

If you check my losses you will see there are more than one fit there. Some are better than others though key is to pick the fight you think you can win with the fit you currently have.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#34 - 2013-01-11 19:52:57 UTC
So OP points to 1 fight where 1 person got lucky somehow and wants to talk about solo PVP...oh riiiight, this is GD.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Pinaculus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2013-01-11 19:55:18 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:

Once you could warp to a belt in low sec and actually find a fight with confidence that there would be no cyno or local spike. It was like the exact mirror opposite to what you expect to happen now.



So no, I disagree, things have changed a great deal in EVE and PVP has not always been this way.


Oh, no doubt. Things have changed a lot. I just don't think they're as bad as you're saying. You used to warp to a belt in low-sec and find a relatively fair fight. Now you have to join FW and warp to a complex to do that.

But that isn't really my point. Solo PvP in EVE has always been something that happened in spite of the game mechanics rather than directly because of them. The game's designed around small gangs and large fleets. Any solo PvP you happen to find is a product of your own intelligence, persistence, and imagination. Having deep pockets helps too.

I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs.
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#36 - 2013-01-11 19:57:45 UTC
Mizhir wrote:


No, but we did still take fights against stronger forces and expoiting our advantages to get a few kill. Exactly like solo pvpers do.


We did and we did that well, but as a fleet. Not solo. Never solo. The stronger foes could never catch up with us and we out ranged them with our weapons. All we ever lost was tech I tacklers fitted with tech I mods. We killed allot of expensive ship and pulled the rug right out from under a many tech II gank fleets.


We achieved this because people had no idea what our caracals could do. We lured them in, made a kill and escaped. Essentially we duped our opponent into fighting on our terms and buggered off soon after.



The technique worked and it did what it was designed to do.
But it was not solo PVP.

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Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#37 - 2013-01-11 20:03:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
Pinaculus wrote:
Solo PvP in EVE has always been something that happened in spite of the game mechanics rather than directly because of them. The game's designed around small gangs and large fleets. Any solo PvP you happen to find is a product of your own intelligence, persistence, and imagination. Having deep pockets helps too.



Fair enough. I can go with that. But I think that there is enough of a desire in EVE that more solo PVP content would be appreciated by enough individuals as to make it financially worthwhile.

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Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
SONS of BANE
#38 - 2013-01-11 20:11:34 UTC
Lol
This ridiculous game
Just
Lol
CausticS0da
Shrubbery Acquisitions
Blohm and Voss Shipyards Alliance
#39 - 2013-01-12 10:27:21 UTC
Rats switching aggro in null is a brutal and - I would say - unforgivable nerf to solo pvp.

It's buffed the bot user and nul bear and makes it pretty much IMPOSSIBLE to go solo hunting for ratters. Even the old frig gang roams are massively gimped for this purpose.

CCP managed to remove one of the most fun activities in the game and swept it under the carpet without acknowledgement.


Solo isn't dead, but CCP is killing it with poorly thought out changes to gameplay. Unless CCP changes this aggression then solo ratter hunting - a massive part of the nul experience is dead. The game just got a lot less exciting.

It isn't even a buff to AI... As if rats would attack someone helping them before the main threat is gone? Worse AI, worse player experience... Well done CCP.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2013-01-12 10:59:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
98% of all my kills when I am alone is against morons. Even when the fleet I engage outnumbers me 8 to 1 i might get 2 or 3 kills before the rest bugger off.

So yes... Praetorian is not wrong.

And Eternum Praetorian o/ Long time no see.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk