These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

CCP a response to how you think the drone change has gone down?

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#61 - 2013-01-11 04:58:00 UTC
TriadSte wrote:
Drones for PVP is a moot point, but PVE is a different ball game.

The Dominix Ishtar and Ishkur are now useless for PVE. These are dedicated drone boats being placed on the top shelf left to rot.

Doesn't it seem a little stupid to force some of the best boats....to rot?

Its kinda like taking away the rep power bonus from the Archon. What use does it have over any other carrier?

I think the Drone AI needed a push up the backside but i think perhaps CCP have done the usual and perhaps over compensated as normal.

On dedicated drone boats I think they should now give a new bonus of drone hitpoints per level for sentries/combats as well as MWD speed bonus for combat drones [non fighter]






No drone boat is useless, only the pilot.

Its very ironic because I predicted the drone nerf would be minimal, but **** a lot of people off and force rage quitting. Along with the missile nerf, I thought it would bring the PCU way down. So now the PCU is OK, not great, not bad, but whine threads about the "nerf" are of the hook. I have to laugh my ass off at the OP's notion, one of my friends just put together a 1600dps Navy Domi and uses it for PvE, C4 sites. I use the same Mach for missions with 4 sentries and 5 Hobgoblins, I have been making record time with missions.

TL;DR

What nerf?

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#62 - 2013-01-11 05:46:49 UTC
I don't use drones but I manufacture them and I have noticed the price has dropped since the expansion. Its not much but enough to make me want to manufacture other goods.

I thought the price would go up because people are losing more drones and need to replace them, but apparently people are just giving them up.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#63 - 2013-01-11 08:54:35 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
TriadSte wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Honestly, this making a new thread just to get their attention is no different from a child throwing a tantrum for the same thing.


If that child has decent caring parents they will give the child what's needed for said child to calm down. More than likely it will be attention so thanks for adding that extra dimension to my thread.


What?

You think teaching children that they'll get what they want if they stomp their feet for it is a good thing??

That's your problem right there.

If that child has decent, caring parents, they'll teach that child that you don't always get what you want, especially if you demand it as if you think yourself entitled.


If you had children, I'd expect them to turn out scary, and have lots of psychological issues. Maybe you have children; be warned.

Seriously, report the post if you have an issue with repetitive; but keep it at that. Currently, you're just trolling, harassing, and attempting to derail an otherwise valid argument.

zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
MainDrain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2013-01-11 10:08:54 UTC
Wow, just jumped from the first to the last page of this topic ... Not sure how children are associated with drones? Are they stealing children! CCP needs to Act!

On another note, i mission in a dominix and i don't have any problems with the drone aggro, i have moved the drone window to pretty much centre screen above my ships EHP stats so i can keep an eye on it.

The fix introduced before christmas solved the majority of problems, you just need to pay attention and not run missions AFK
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2013-01-11 10:24:48 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
TriadSte wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Honestly, this making a new thread just to get their attention is no different from a child throwing a tantrum for the same thing.


If that child has decent caring parents they will give the child what's needed for said child to calm down. More than likely it will be attention so thanks for adding that extra dimension to my thread.


What?

You think teaching children that they'll get what they want if they stomp their feet for it is a good thing??

That's your problem right there.

If that child has decent, caring parents, they'll teach that child that you don't always get what you want, especially if you demand it as if you think yourself entitled.


If you had children, I'd expect them to turn out scary, and have lots of psychological issues. Maybe you have children; be warned.

Seriously, report the post if you have an issue with repetitive; but keep it at that. Currently, you're just trolling, harassing, and attempting to derail an otherwise valid argument.



Did it really take you three pages to inform me of that, even though I haven't been to this thread in weeks?

I expect that half of the entitled attitudes that have been appearing in the gaming community are the result of parents who cave to the foot-stomping of children. I'm not talking about babies who cry because they are hungry, I'm talking about self-aware children who are not being taught any better. Parents should provide for their children, indeed. That includes providing basic social skills, like not throwing tantrums.

Also, what valid argument? tl;dr drone boats are fine. That was my initial point.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
kes88
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2013-01-11 10:32:42 UTC
Captain Tardbar wrote:
I don't use drones but I manufacture them and I have noticed the price has dropped since the expansion. Its not much but enough to make me want to manufacture other goods.

I thought the price would go up because people are losing more drones and need to replace them, but apparently people are just giving them up.



I thought they would go up too, but I certainly haven't noticed a price drop? I haven't seen a significant increase though either. That being said, Heavies do seem to have increased in price with Mediums staying about the same. At least where I am.

I lost 2 drones on the day of the AI changes, but since then I've just learned to keep an eye on them as much as one would keep an eye on tank. It's not hard?
Yim Sei
Ontogenic Achronycal PLC
#67 - 2013-01-11 10:39:34 UTC
lol, amazing how a thread about changing drone mechanics becomes 'PARENTING 101 FOR GAMERS'

But anyway so as not to derail or troll the original issue my 2 penneth.

I fly a gallente character who has for many years used Ishtar and Domi for drone based dominance of L4s and Plexes.

Saw the difference after the patch how my drones were getting targetted and so changed strategy.

1. Recall drones and just use to get rid of scram frigs etc.

2. Use Turrets more - concentrated on range and tracking.

U know what? it works

And all without professing to be the best Eve player ever, without checking forum threads for get arounds, or seeking solace in GD.

I know its been said before, but theres alot to be said for adapting.

True, its more work, and for that more fun.

Now unless you are looking for AFK missioning (which tbh was always a glitch imo) then there is no problem.

It seems to only effect those who dont like 'playing' eve.

Think about it.

Post with my main? This is my main - I just overtrain and overplay my alts.
Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
#68 - 2013-01-11 10:46:15 UTC
Funny with what emotional force people jump at "redundant" threads.

Odyssey: Repacking in POS hangars for modules +1,  but please for other stuff too, especially containers. Make containers openable in POS hangars.
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
#69 - 2013-01-11 10:53:53 UTC
So all those weeks training drone skills as a speciality boil down to:

Yim Sei wrote:
1. Recall drones and just use to get rid of scram frigs etc.

2. Use Turrets more - concentrated on range and tracking.


Awesome!

And I still find elite frigs instapopping my hobgob2s regularly in L3s
Portia Venetia
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#70 - 2013-01-11 12:42:35 UTC
I usually employ a Dominix w/ large rails and plenty of drones for L4 missions. I use drones close and guns at range. While the changes to NPC "AI" have not made using this arrangement impossible, they have certainly made using it more tedious and more annoying. As another poster mentioned, the relatively frequent deploy/recall cycles have also made this configuration slower to complete missions as damage output has been reduced.

I have 9.1M SP in drones, but in the EVE spirit of "HTFU" and "Adapt or Die," I have re-arranged my training plan and placed Missiles at the forefront, and I have a buy order out for a Raven. I will have to learn to live with the Raven's weaker tank (comparatively), but I think that will be manageable.

Ultimately it's disappointing to have "chosen poorly," as it were, but I'm not sure what else there is to do about it. In just under 8 days I will have sufficient missile skills to make the switch.
MainDrain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2013-01-11 12:46:06 UTC
Portia Venetia wrote:
I usually employ a Dominix w/ large rails and plenty of drones for L4 missions. I use drones close and guns at range. While the changes to NPC "AI" have not made using this arrangement impossible, they have certainly made using it more tedious and more annoying. As another poster mentioned, the relatively frequent deploy/recall cycles have also made this configuration slower to complete missions as damage output has been reduced.

I have 9.1M SP in drones, but in the EVE spirit of "HTFU" and "Adapt or Die," I have re-arranged my training plan and placed Missiles at the forefront, and I have a buy order out for a Raven. I will have to learn to live with the Raven's weaker tank (comparatively), but I think that will be manageable.

Ultimately it's disappointing to have "chosen poorly," as it were, but I'm not sure what else there is to do about it. In just under 8 days I will have sufficient missile skills to make the switch.



Could you not just improve your gunnery skills until they become much more useful (t2 rails, full support skills etc) and adjust your domi fit? It might be quicker than training up for a raven
Raw Matters
Brilliant Starfire
#72 - 2013-01-11 12:57:59 UTC
MainDrain wrote:
Could you not just improve your gunnery skills until they become much more useful (t2 rails, full support skills etc) and adjust your domi fit? It might be quicker than training up for a raven

I think switching away from drones is currently very reasonable for a mission runner. Currently even if you pay a lot of attention, there will be at least one drone death each mission, which will cost you about 500k minimum. Guns don't die and the ammunition is a lot cheaper, rendering drones completely inferior at every point right now.

As I already stated excessively on the Assembly Hall: This drone change was a mistake and needs to be fixed immediately. And if you ask me, I'd say this change is so full of fail, that the one responsible for it should be exchanged with someone who can actually do the job.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#73 - 2013-01-11 13:07:41 UTC
Raw Matters wrote:
MainDrain wrote:
Could you not just improve your gunnery skills until they become much more useful (t2 rails, full support skills etc) and adjust your domi fit? It might be quicker than training up for a raven

I think switching away from drones is currently very reasonable for a mission runner. Currently even if you pay a lot of attention, there will be at least one drone death each mission, which will cost you about 500k minimum. Guns don't die and the ammunition is a lot cheaper, rendering drones completely inferior at every point right now.

As I already stated excessively on the Assembly Hall: This drone change was a mistake and needs to be fixed immediately. And if you ask me, I'd say this change is so full of fail, that the one responsible for it should be exchanged with someone who can actually do the job.


So.... what drone change is this? There hasn't been a change to drones. What has occured is the NPCs got smarter, and the loophole you took advantage of to mission risk free closed.
Its also the first step towards fewer tougher NPC's, which actually benefits drone users in the long run, as there will be fewer NPC's to switch agro and keep an eye on. But. It needs time for them to do the changes step by step, because they can't do it all at once due to the law of unintended consequences.
So.... Most of us seem actually happy with these changes, personally I think whoever did it needs a medal for making such a great change. Even if it has slightly negativly impacted on drone users.
MainDrain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2013-01-11 13:23:11 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Raw Matters wrote:
MainDrain wrote:
Could you not just improve your gunnery skills until they become much more useful (t2 rails, full support skills etc) and adjust your domi fit? It might be quicker than training up for a raven

I think switching away from drones is currently very reasonable for a mission runner. Currently even if you pay a lot of attention, there will be at least one drone death each mission, which will cost you about 500k minimum. Guns don't die and the ammunition is a lot cheaper, rendering drones completely inferior at every point right now.

As I already stated excessively on the Assembly Hall: This drone change was a mistake and needs to be fixed immediately. And if you ask me, I'd say this change is so full of fail, that the one responsible for it should be exchanged with someone who can actually do the job.


So.... what drone change is this? There hasn't been a change to drones. What has occured is the NPCs got smarter, and the loophole you took advantage of to mission risk free closed.
Its also the first step towards fewer tougher NPC's, which actually benefits drone users in the long run, as there will be fewer NPC's to switch agro and keep an eye on. But. It needs time for them to do the changes step by step, because they can't do it all at once due to the law of unintended consequences.
So.... Most of us seem actually happy with these changes, personally I think whoever did it needs a medal for making such a great change. Even if it has slightly negativly impacted on drone users.



Yeah, totally agreeing with this point, CCP at some point in the past (cant find reference) they mentioned they wanted to reduce the overall number of rats in a mission site, while keeping the amount of damage they put out, and total EHP of a room similar, so something along those lines.

They have also mentioned weapon systems will be getting an overhaul at somepoint, im assuming drones will be overhauled at the same time.
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
#75 - 2013-01-11 13:23:49 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Raw Matters wrote:
MainDrain wrote:
Could you not just improve your gunnery skills until they become much more useful (t2 rails, full support skills etc) and adjust your domi fit? It might be quicker than training up for a raven

I think switching away from drones is currently very reasonable for a mission runner. Currently even if you pay a lot of attention, there will be at least one drone death each mission, which will cost you about 500k minimum. Guns don't die and the ammunition is a lot cheaper, rendering drones completely inferior at every point right now.

As I already stated excessively on the Assembly Hall: This drone change was a mistake and needs to be fixed immediately. And if you ask me, I'd say this change is so full of fail, that the one responsible for it should be exchanged with someone who can actually do the job.


So.... what drone change is this? There hasn't been a change to drones. What has occured is the NPCs got smarter, and the loophole you took advantage of to mission risk free closed.
Its also the first step towards fewer tougher NPC's, which actually benefits drone users in the long run, as there will be fewer NPC's to switch agro and keep an eye on. But. It needs time for them to do the changes step by step, because they can't do it all at once due to the law of unintended consequences.
So.... Most of us seem actually happy with these changes, personally I think whoever did it needs a medal for making such a great change. Even if it has slightly negativly impacted on drone users.


Mission risk free? I suppose some people could, I know I couldn't.

I really like the idea of fewer, tougher NPCs. Hoping it will make missioning both more interesting and challenging without raising the income from them.

Unfortunately atm anyone who was specialising in drones is being nailed by the law of unintended consequences. I do two or three missions a week, usually L3s, currently losing a T2 drone every 3 or 4 missions to elite frig instapop when I use a drone boat.

Spent a couple of weeks skilling-up to fly an arty cane and missions are way easier than they ever were with droneboats.

The new salvage drones are pretty useful though. Smile
Portia Venetia
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#76 - 2013-01-11 13:32:39 UTC
MainDrain wrote:
Portia Venetia wrote:
I usually employ a Dominix w/ large rails and plenty of drones for L4 missions. I use drones close and guns at range. While the changes to NPC "AI" have not made using this arrangement impossible, they have certainly made using it more tedious and more annoying. As another poster mentioned, the relatively frequent deploy/recall cycles have also made this configuration slower to complete missions as damage output has been reduced.

I have 9.1M SP in drones, but in the EVE spirit of "HTFU" and "Adapt or Die," I have re-arranged my training plan and placed Missiles at the forefront, and I have a buy order out for a Raven. I will have to learn to live with the Raven's weaker tank (comparatively), but I think that will be manageable.

Ultimately it's disappointing to have "chosen poorly," as it were, but I'm not sure what else there is to do about it. In just under 8 days I will have sufficient missile skills to make the switch.



Could you not just improve your gunnery skills until they become much more useful (t2 rails, full support skills etc) and adjust your domi fit? It might be quicker than training up for a raven



I have 13.9M SP in Gunnery, so improvement there would be minimal at best. Switching to missiles also mitigates to some degree the ramping up of NPC e-war. Guns still require a lock, and FoF missiles (even though their DPS is abysmal) will still allow you to do something even in crowded, e-war heavy mission rooms.
Josef Djugashvilis
#77 - 2013-01-11 13:41:40 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
This thread again?

Seriously, this is just getting old. Quit EVE. If you're too useless to use the search function or read the forums before posting the same thing already being discussed, then it's no wonder you fail at drones.


Dear Remiel, you seem distraught, step outside, take some deep breaths of fresh air, then come back and post.

If CCP acknowledged that the new drone AI affects drone boats disproportinately, and made a simple clear statement that the issue is been looked at, then most folk would happily await the outcome.

Then I could pay Eve agian in my poor neglected Navy Dominix.

This is not a signature.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2013-01-11 13:44:48 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
This thread again?

Seriously, this is just getting old. Quit EVE. If you're too useless to use the search function or read the forums before posting the same thing already being discussed, then it's no wonder you fail at drones.


Dear Remiel, you seem distraught, step outside, take some deep breaths of fresh air, then come back and post.

If CCP acknowledged that the new drone AI affects drone boats disproportinately, and made a simple clear statement that the issue is been looked at, then most folk would happily await the outcome.

Then I could pay Eve agian in my poor neglected Navy Dominix.



Me? Distraught? My drones are working just fine. I'm not the one posting endless whine threads about how there's something (apparently) wrong with drones now. Also, CCP have addressed the issue. Did you miss it?

Also, as stated earlier, that was posted weeks ago. I've already had my outside time for the month.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#79 - 2013-01-11 13:48:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Roime
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Dude, just stop trying. I did. CCP does not comment on the state of drones any more, in PvP or PvE. Put "CCP" and "drones" in one topic, and you are virtually guaranteed no blue tag. Do yourself a favour and cross-train away from drone boats like everyone else.


You are simply wrong:

CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Dominix: still remains a popular ship. It is fairly good, except for the drone mechanics themselves, which are terribly outdated. While we are not certain when this can be tackled, it definitely has high priority on our to-do list.


From http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73530

and a list of fairly recent and announced upcoming drone-related improvements (incomplete and in random order):

- reconnect to lost drones (shortcut too)
- DDAs and continuous monitoring of their performance (last buff in Ret)
- T2 drone modules
- Officer drone modules
- new drones: small & medium web drones
- new (very pure) drone ships- frigates, destroyers (and accompanying DDA tweak to fit on these ships)
- upcoming new drone ship, Prophecy
- rebalancing Myrmidon to have moar b/w <3

Fozzie has also stated that they want to increase the use of drones.

I fly drone ships all the time in PVP and PVE and I see no reason to not use them, they are blatantly better than ever.

The UI revamp will come. Meanwhile they are perfectly usable and very lethal indeed.

.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2013-01-11 14:12:10 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

Hellfire, losing DRONES in high sec lvl 4s doesn't hold a candle to losing FIGHTERs in low sec lvl 5s or Faction battleships in a null plex (yes I lost a rattlesnake in an attempt to figure out a plex, funny thing is the plex dropped a Bhaalgorn BPC, didn't want that snake noways).

it's good you see the difference between losing drones in lvl4 and losing faction battleship in a nulli plex.

it's quite strange that you don't see the difference between Bhaalgorn BPC and mission payout for 3 millions + a couple of millions from bounties.....

then you would like to understand difference between fighting different missions with different NPCs and farming plexes with "always the same quantities and NPC types".

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"