These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

DNI shield tank for L4, and MJD
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
zoni Ishikela
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-01-10 17:52:47 UTC
Any recommendations for what is a "reasonable"shield tank DPS value for a DNI solo level 4 post AI changes in retribution?
I have elite level core defense / core fitting certs.

I'm trying to fit a MJD on the DNI as a shield tank fit with 350mm rail IIs to supplement sentry IIs, but when I do, my tank drops quite a bit because I have to drop a shield tank slot. I was hoping to hover around 300 but not sure what's considered a reasonable shield tank DPS with the new changes. I heard that it's very risky to solo L4 without a 400 DPS tank, but that was pre MJD. Even worse if I attempt to fit a TP for frigates and cruisers.

Don't know if fitting an MJD is worth the drop in tank, or if I'd be better off with a better tank and no MJD. Or TP without MJD.

Argh.


Z.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#2 - 2013-01-10 18:03:41 UTC
well, with a mjd, you can probably outrange most of the damage unless you fly against guristas. i'd say try it out. as long as you keep killing the pointing frigates first, you can always warp out and will know better next time.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#3 - 2013-01-10 18:06:32 UTC
took me a moment to figure out "DNI," the best I could come up with was "****, Navy Issue."

Haven't flown one recently, so I can't comment too closely on the setup, however I know that it relies on a heavy burst tank (preferably with some pimped mods) and massive dps. Consider cap boost or ASB setups.

You should never, ever need or want a target painter on a dominix. In theory its nice because of long range and benefit to both guns and drones, but in practice the long cycle time makes it more trouble than its worth, considering what else could be in that slot. I would try going with no prop mod either. Unlike a machariel or something, you don't need to be particularly well positioned to destroy things. The only real benefit of mobility aside from getting to gates would be forcing elite frigs to motor straight at you and get 1-shotted. However, this isn't worth changing your whole setup considering that with multiple DDAs and omnilinks your hobs will be tearing frigs apart. You can switch your guns to javelin or something and pick off BC's while your drones take care of tacklers. Or you can ignore tacklers and take down BS as fast as possible. Garde's will tear BS apart even in close range (maybe not angels that are 2km from you).

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Kasutra
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#4 - 2013-01-10 19:00:51 UTC
If you're sniping stuff from 100+ km, a 300dps sustained tank should be fine. NPC damage projection at those ranges tends to be crap.

Of course, your damage projection is going to suffer too, as you'll not be able to apply AM/Javelin or Gardes at that range. I'd save this MJD setup for missions you're having trouble completing with a conventional fit.
Flakey Foont
#5 - 2013-01-10 20:39:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Flakey Foont
Try something like this:


[Dominix Navy Issue, Rail Shield Serp]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Federation Navy Co-Processor

Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Thermic Dissipation Field I
Thermic Dissipation Field I
Large Micro Jump Drive
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

350mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Large Drone Scope Chip I
Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I



Hardeners to taste.

Tank not really an issue as most stuff pops before it gets in range to hurt you or the drones. If you need to GTFO, use the MJD.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#6 - 2013-01-11 03:51:01 UTC
hmmm note to self, try getting aggro then mjd and launch wardens, hopefully ??? then profit!

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
zoni Ishikela
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-01-12 00:55:25 UTC
Thanks for the replies, good ideas up there.

So, TP is out the door on the domi navy - sounds like MJD is a good option.

I'll work on that. The fit you suggest Flakey is similar to what I had in mind with a few minor changes - I was using rail IIs with antimatter, spike or javelin. and had a lot of memory cells for the rigs to sustain the cap.

Z.
Mund Richard
#8 - 2013-01-13 22:59:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
Flakey Foont wrote:
Try something like this: [Dominix Navy Issue, Rail Shield Serp]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Federation Navy Co-Processor

Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Thermic Dissipation Field I
Thermic Dissipation Field I
Large Micro Jump Drive
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

350mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
350mm Prototype Gauss Gun, Antimatter Charge L
Drone Link Augmentor I
Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Large Drone Scope Chip I
Large Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard I

Tank not really an issue as most stuff pops before it gets in range to hurt you or the drones. If you need to GTFO, use the MJD.
Drop drone rigs, have lots more CPU to play around?
x3 T2 DDA
x2 T2 MagStab
x2 T2 TE
-
x2 Specific T2 Hardener
LMJD
T2 LSB
x2 T2 Omni -> Fed Navy
-
x4 T2 425 Railgun, Antimatter (47+49 all V no implant)
x2 T2 Drone Link
-
Large Processor overclocking Unit
x2 of your prefered rig, max 200 calibration

Due to stacking penalty, "my" sentries do more damage, with one less slot used for them.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
zoni Ishikela
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-01-14 01:39:47 UTC  |  Edited by: zoni Ishikela
So, here's where I am so far:

Dominix Navy Issue

6x 350mm Railgun II (Antimatter Charge L)

Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Large Shield Booster II
Explosive Deflection Amplifier II
2x Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Large Micro Jump Drive

3x Drone Damage Amplifier II
Shield Power Relay II
2x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II

3x Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I

---

Could do 425mm but I read in this forum that 350mm do better with cruiser/frigs.


Comments?
Mund Richard
#10 - 2013-01-14 01:52:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
zoni Ishikela wrote:
So, here's where I am so far:

Dominix Navy Issue

6x 350mm Railgun II (Antimatter Charge L)

Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Large Shield Booster II
Explosive Deflection Amplifier II
2x Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Large Micro Jump Drive

3x Drone Damage Amplifier II
Shield Power Relay II
2x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II

3x Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I

---

Could do 425mm but I read in this forum that 350mm do better with cruiser/frigs.


Comments?

Biiig-biiig no to the shield power array. It kills your cap regen, without doing anything on this setup.
Your range is a bit short on both guns and drones (no TE, not 425, no Drone link), if you warp in the right direction, that won't be that much of an issue, except that the longer the range, the less tank you need and that's the idea with the MJD.
Exp amplifier? Assuming you fight angels, go invuln.
And you seem to have two shield boosters fit? I'll assume that was a misclick or something?

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
zoni Ishikela
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-01-14 02:11:26 UTC
Yes, duplicated. With revisions:
Still having a heck of a time with the mids.

[Dominix Navy Issue, Domi Navy 350mm dmg control B]

4x 350mm Railgun II (Antimatter Charge L)
2x Drone Link Augmentor II

X-Large Shield Booster II
2x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
2x Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Large Micro Jump Drive

3x Drone Damage Amplifier II
Co-Processor II
2x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II

3x Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Mund Richard
#12 - 2013-01-14 02:23:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
Well, you saw what I suggested, I still find that a better idea. Blink

Unless you do something wrong, the shield booster you won't even need to activate half the time, or just short pulses.
But for a start, go with a DC if you wish, Co-proc I feel a waste of a low slot (Overclock rig instead), have at least one TE on instead.
And ofc invulns only if you are really sure there's heavy omni damage going on, as against serp for instance, kin+therm is better.

Oh, and I wasn't joking about the fed navy omnilinks, they *are* that awesome for Garde IIs (unless fighting angels, but there you need the tracking just as well).

But anyways, getting fair enough for a testrun on TQ or SiSi, try, learn from it, change if there needs change be done and repeat until you either have fun and/or profit. P

Edit:
Ah, right, my fit had a LSB, yours an XL, I suppose you need to dance around with the CPU a bit.
1% missing with a XL CL-5 with 350 guns and still T2 DLAs, fits with T1 DLAs, but the T2 DC can only go in place of a magstab.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
zoni Ishikela
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-01-14 03:09:55 UTC

Ok,

removed the omnis, went for specific resist (Angels) - can do either passive or active - not sure which is best - cap wise doesn't make much of a difference.

If I remove the co-processor II and go with overclock, I loose a lot of cap - 1.5 minutes or so.
I could drop from XL to L for the booster.


[Dominix Navy Issue, Domi Navy 350mm dmg control C]

4x 350mm Railgun II (Antimatter Charge L)
2x Drone Link Augmentor II

X-Large Shield Booster II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Explosive Deflection Field II
2x Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Large Micro Jump Drive

3x Drone Damage Amplifier II
Co-Processor II
2x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II

3x Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I

OR

[Dominix Navy Issue, Domi Navy 350mm dmg control C]

4x 350mm Railgun II (Antimatter Charge L)
2x Drone Link Augmentor I

Large Shield Booster II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Explosive Deflection Field II
2x Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Large Micro Jump Drive

3x Drone Damage Amplifier II
Tracking Enhancer II
2x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Damage Control II

3x Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I


Thanks for the help. +1
Mund Richard
#14 - 2013-01-14 03:30:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
zoni Ishikela wrote:
removed the omnis, went for specific resist (Angels) - can do either passive or active - not sure which is best - cap wise doesn't make much of a difference.

If I remove the co-processor II and go with overclock, I loose a lot of cap - 1.5 minutes or so.
I could drop from XL to L for the booster.

Well, angels and shield resist are funny, since their primary is explosive, which is also your strongest.
However, they do lots of "off-damage", so like I said/asked earlier, in that one case invuln makes sense.

The active or passive does make a difference.
Passive tank is on all the time, and power relays kill your cap recharge from undock.
Since the plan is to barely need any pulsing, use some active modules (hardener, LMJD) and guns that eat cap, go active tank.

1.5 min cap life should be enough most of the time, the plan *is* not getting shot much, thus not needing repairs Blink
And in angel bonus room, if you LMJD away from the spawn location, you'll be just bored to death until they finally come in range lol. (Assuming towers have a 100km range, no idea).

Thanks for the +1, yw, if I led you astray in any way, or you just tried and have feedback on it, please share.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#15 - 2013-01-14 18:57:35 UTC
If you're using the DNI, and you're fitting it with guns, then your DPS should be your tank. A well fit DNI puts out 1400+ dps, and with that kind of damage you really don't need much tank at all to survive missions (I know that when I run them 9 times out of 10 I don't even turn my booster on)
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-01-14 21:14:24 UTC
Nobody here has mentioned the Black Eagle Drone link? it saves a bit of cpu, and gets you 2km extra range.

Yes, its a bit expensive, but you can just do the gallente epic arc and get one.

Drone Link Augs:
Type : range : cpu
tech1 : 20 km : 50
tech2 : 24 km : 55
BlackEagle: 26km : 45

* I hope they add faction stuff here, like Fed Navy, in addition to the officer drone mods, in this case, the storyline is basically a fed navy faction mod

Omni links:
tech 1: 35 cpu, 1.2x range/tracking
tech 2: 39 cpu, 1.25x range/tracking
Fed Navy: 36 cpu, 1.3x range/tracking

Can't do much with the Drone damage mods, unless you go officer fit...

Basically going fed navy faction faction mods will save you 26 cpu over a tech 2 fit... I don't know if that is enough...


I see Dread Guristas and Gistum C-type Invuln fields for 400 million - they give better resists than a tech II invuln, and use 27cpu (as opposed to the 44 cpu of an adaptive)
That would bring the total CPU savings up to 43
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#17 - 2013-01-19 12:38:18 UTC
The Dominix Navy Issue is a fine ship but when it comes to shield tanking that Rattlesnake will just do better in the cpu and powergrid department.
If you like wardens as much as I do, I recommend the Rattler highly to you.

On top of that she seems to go down in price recently which is awesome.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Mund Richard
#18 - 2013-01-19 13:16:42 UTC
True, so it comes down to better tank vs the ease at which railguns snipe incoming ships.

Since the plan is to not need tank at all, and the velocity of incoming rats (twice of the orbit or so?) mess up missiles, while their angular is pretty much zero at 70 km, the Rattler is not an obvious answer in this case.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-01-20 00:31:53 UTC
Ok I am going to be a little controversial and suggest this.

[Dominix Navy Issue, Micro Jump Armour]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
Reactive Armor Hardener

Large Micro Jump Drive
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

350mm Railgun II, Spike L
350mm Railgun II, Spike L
350mm Railgun II, Spike L
350mm Railgun II, Spike L
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Nanobot Accelerator I
Large Drone Control Range Augmentor I


Bouncer II x5
Valkyrie II x5
Warrior II x5

If you are not deadspacing/Crystaling the shield tank then it is still using up a lot of slots, also your targeting range is only 87.5km yet your control range is 100km.

I think the armour version tanks more against Angels than your setup and has greater DPS projection/tracking due to the 140km lock range when using the microjumpdrive.

Gun DPS is less but if you are at range using Spike then Gun DPS is a minimal portion of DPS. I can understand full DPS Shield Gank close range setups but not sure what you are gaining here.

If you are burst tanking before the jump drive goes of then you may be better with XL ASB but then you need to go full faction for cpu reasons and still use a cpu rig. Pulse an ASB and it last longer than you think. Gist Xl Shield Booster may also work.

This is perhaps better than the armour version but the tank has a ticking clock. Figure the Kinetic rig helps versus more enemies.

[Dominix Navy Issue, Micro Jump Shield]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Tracking Enhancer II
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer
Damage Control II

Large Micro Jump Drive
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 400
Caldari Navy Kinetic Deflection Field
Caldari Navy Explosive Deflection Field

350mm Railgun II, Spike L
350mm Railgun II, Spike L
350mm Railgun II, Spike L
350mm Railgun II, Spike L
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Processor Overclocking Unit I
Large Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Large Ionic Field Projector I


Bouncer II x5
Valkyrie II x5
Warrior II x5
Mund Richard
#20 - 2013-01-20 02:07:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Mund Richard
Alticus C Bear wrote:
If you are not deadspacing/Crystaling the shield tank then it is still using up a lot of slots, also your targeting range is only 87.5km yet your control range is 100km.

Gun DPS is less but if you are at range using Spike then Gun DPS is a minimal portion of DPS. I can understand full DPS Shield Gank close range setups but not sure what you are gaining here.

If you are burst tanking before the jump drive goes of then you may be better with XL ASB but then you need to go full faction for cpu reasons and still use a cpu rig. Pulse an ASB and it last longer than you think. Gist Xl Shield Booster may also work.

This is perhaps better than the armour version but the tank has a ticking clock. Figure the Kinetic rig helps versus more enemies.

Good points to ponder upon...
Though I see your armor version using 4 slots for repping, and a cap booster, so not sure what you mean by the slot-usage.

87.5km lock range, with one link can be fair enough, as you get 84km drone range, and one more 425 gun (with one overclocker) to make better use of the magstab/TEs.
That is also my answer to the gun dps somewhat: 360 dps with guns (half falloff somewhere over 70km), 560 with wardens, 420+750 for Jav+Garde half falloff and drone optimal at almost 50km.

Burst tank before the Jump drive activates:
Without any shield rigs or extenders, you have 10k shields on the Domi.
With two T2 invulns alone, you get 30k EHP, taking a spool-up of 10 seconds after warp-in (when they may not have you targeted yet, or within optimal), even not activating the booster you are still probably fine.
Don't really want to see the missions with sentries where you aren't.

MJD Domi is a fun thing, ofc both armor Domi and Shield Rattlersnake outtank it.
Just not outgank at the 50-75km range on incoming afterburner-using rats (that make missiles "useless").
And a lot of rats should start there, and even beyond with the MJD.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
12Next page