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Multiple training on one account,

First post First post
Author
AnzacPaul
Tactically Challenged
Tactical Supremacy
#101 - 2013-01-10 01:44:40 UTC  |  Edited by: AnzacPaul
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:

Well that is pointless which is why I'm arguing to just let us train an additional character on the same account for free. Which is the way it should have been from the start.



No it shouldn't. You just want something extra for free.

CCP have made it even easier allowing you to play the game for no charge with GTC purchases with isk.


Also, if you can't afford an extra $15 a month for a game (less than 4 dollars a week), you should really be looking at your financial situation, and not complaining at CCP.

Imagine if it had been like that from the start, the game would mean so much less as characters would be worth nothing. Titan pilots? I got three training on one account at the same time. Roll
Kenneth O'Hara
Sebiestor Tribe
#102 - 2013-01-10 01:52:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenneth O'Hara
AnzacPaul wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:

Well that is pointless which is why I'm arguing to just let us train an additional character on the same account for free. Which is the way it should have been from the start.



No it shouldn't. You just want something extra for free.

CCP have made it even easier allowing you to play the game for no charge with GTC purchases with isk.


Also, if you can't afford an extra $15 a month for a game (less than 4 dollars a week), you should really be looking at your financial situation, and not complaining at CCP.

Imagine if it had been like that from the start, the game would mean so much less as characters would be worth nothing. Titan pilots? I got three training on one account at the same time. Roll

Ha and you assume because I'm arguing this point that I can't afford extra accounts. It's the principle of the matter.

Edit: What if I had 3 accounts with titan pilots being trained at the same time? Oh i had an extra 30 bucks each mouth so it's ok.
The difference I can log into all 3 at the same time with the 3 accounts. With the one account training 3 characters, I can still only log one in at a time.

Bring Saede Riordan back!! Never Forget! _"__Operation Godzilla Smacks Zeus"  ~__Graygor _

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#103 - 2013-01-10 02:00:41 UTC
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
So only people with deeper pockets should be able to train 2 characters at the same time.
You can train two characters at once without having deep pockets. In fact, probably the most common reason to have that second account is to ensure that you don't need to spend money on it.

Quote:
Well that is pointless which is why I'm arguing to just let us train an additional character on the same account for free. Which is the way it should have been from the start.
No, it really shouldn't. All MMOs work like this, and they do it for a reason: the base hook of these kinds of game is character progression, so in the end, that is what you're paying for. That's what the companies make money from, and it's why ghost training was killed off unceremoniously: because people got the hook for free. Likewise, being able to train multiple characters for free massively dilutes the character pool; massively reduces income for the developer; massively reduces player interdependency; it unbalances player growth… there is literally no upsides to it (no, player miserliness and “I want it for free”-entitlement is not an upside).

If you want to train two characters at once, you can. For double the spread of progression (note: spread, not speed), you — quite fairly — pay double the price. The game generously offers means to do that without having deep pockets, so there's not even that kind of unfairness.
Kenneth O'Hara
Sebiestor Tribe
#104 - 2013-01-10 02:09:36 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
So only people with deeper pockets should be able to train 2 characters at the same time.
You can train two characters at once without having deep pockets. In fact, probably the most common reason to have that second account is to ensure that you don't need to spend money on it.

Quote:
Well that is pointless which is why I'm arguing to just let us train an additional character on the same account for free. Which is the way it should have been from the start.
No, it really shouldn't. All MMOs work like this, and they do it for a reason: the base hook of these kinds of game is character progression, so in the end, that is what you're paying for. That's what the companies make money from, and it's why ghost training was killed off unceremoniously: because people got the hook for free. Likewise, being able to train multiple characters for free massively dilutes the character pool; massively reduces income for the developer; massively reduces player interdependency; it unbalances player growth… there is literally no upsides to it (no, player miserliness and “I want it for free”-entitlement is not an upside).

If you want to train two characters at once, you can. For double the spread of progression (note: spread, not speed), you — quite fairly — pay double the price. The game generously offers means to do that without having deep pockets, so there's not even that kind of unfairness.

You're assuming that all MMOs train skills real time like EVE... They don't. The only reason you can't "skill" up other characters at the same time in other MMOs is because it is completely different mechanics and requires you to be logged in to get said skills and levels. You just compared EVE to WoW. EVE is completely different.

Oh and it's not "for free" as you say. I already pay my monthly sub for one account.

Bring Saede Riordan back!! Never Forget! _"__Operation Godzilla Smacks Zeus"  ~__Graygor _

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#105 - 2013-01-10 02:12:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
You're assuming that all MMOs train skills real time like EVE.
Nope. I'm simply stating facts: EVE lets you work on the advancement of one character at a time — this is an industry-wide convention (unsurprisingly since that's usually the hook of the game). Exactly how it is done is inconsequential because it would always be possible to train all characters at once if the developers wanted to. Of course, doing so would mean giving you stuff that you'd otherwise have to pay for so why on earth would (or should) they give you that for free?

Quote:
Oh and it's not "for free" as you say. I already pay my monthly sub for one account.
…and you get the one character training slot for that. Two more without paying more is about as free as it gets. Thrice the price would be more appropriate… and what do you know? If you do pay that much, you can train three characters at a time!
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#106 - 2013-01-10 02:12:55 UTC
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
Oh and it's not "for free" as you say. I already pay my monthly sub for one account.


Which, as in literally every other MMO, allows you to progress with one character at a time.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Kenneth O'Hara
Sebiestor Tribe
#107 - 2013-01-10 02:20:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenneth O'Hara
Tippia wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
You're assuming that all MMOs train skills real time like EVE.
Nope. I'm simply stating facts: EVE lets you work on the advancement of one character at a time — an industry-wide convention (unsurprisingly since that's usually the hook of the game). Exactly how it is done is inconsequential.

It's only a convention because nobody had a system where it was feasibly possible to level a character without logging in to the game. Just because it hasn't been done does not mean that the opposite is an industry standard. Besides, standards change.

Tippia wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
Oh and it's not "for free" as you say. I already pay my monthly sub for one account.
…and you get the one character training slot for that. Two more without paying more is about as free as it gets.

We've already established that I'm not paying to train one character but I am paying to log in with one character.

Bring Saede Riordan back!! Never Forget! _"__Operation Godzilla Smacks Zeus"  ~__Graygor _

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#108 - 2013-01-10 02:28:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
It's only a convention because nobody had a system where it was feasibly possible to level a character without logging in to the game.
Eh, no. It's been feasible from day #1 of MMO #1 and isn't even difficult to imagine, let alone implement: the XP equivalent is account-wide, each character builds independently using that XP amount.

Boom done easy. So you can drop that nonsense. No-one does it because that's where they make money, not because it can't be done. Hell, even the free-to-play games make money that way. EVE is is no way unique, neither in the decision to only let you advance one character at a time, nor in the ability to implement such a design.

Quote:
We've already established that I'm not paying to train one character but I am paying to log in with one character.
No. You've only established that you think you're entitled to more. If you don't think you get enough for your buck, stop paying it. Beyond that, it's a very simple rule: you pay for one account; one account lets you train one character. If you want to train multiple characters, get multiple accounts. Three times the spread means three times the price, to absolutely no-one's surprise.

So no, wanting three times more training without any additional payment is still to want something for free.
bufnitza calatoare
#109 - 2013-01-10 02:37:17 UTC
SassyLassy wrote:
it would be nice if you could train more then 1 charecter at a time. training 2 chars on 1 account be awesome especially if it could be done at same time.

Why isnt this been added in yet CCP ?



IF you must know... you used to be able to do exactly that. then ccp stopped it.
Kenneth O'Hara
Sebiestor Tribe
#110 - 2013-01-10 02:40:27 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
It's only a convention because nobody had a system where it was feasibly possible to level a character without logging in to the game.
Eh, no. It's been feasible from day #1 of MMO #1 and isn't even difficult to imagine, let alone implement: the XP equivalent is account-wide, each character builds independently using that XP amount.

Boom done easy. So you can drop that nonsense. No-one does it because that's where they make money, not because it can't be done. Hell, even the free-to-play games make money that way. EVE is is no way unique, neither in the decision to only let you advance one character at a time, nor in the ability to implement such a design.

You can't gain XP (experience) without logging in with the character. Based on your equivalence of XP to SP, we have to log in to that character to just train skills. This is an industry standard, supposedly.

Tippia wrote:
Kenneth O'hara wrote:
We've already established that I'm not paying to train one character but I am paying to log in with one character.
No. You've only established that you think you're entitled to more. If you don't think you get enough for your buck, stop paying it. Beyond that, it's a very simple rule: you pay for one account; one account lets you train one character. If you want to train multiple characters, get multiple accounts. Three times the spread means three times the price, to absolutely no-one's surprise.

So no, wanting three times more training without any additional payment is still to want something for free.

Technically, I'm not entitled to anything outside of having access to the game which is the ability to log in. According to you and everybody else here it seems, I'm only entitled to one character.

I am very happy with my services thus far in case you were wondering.

Bring Saede Riordan back!! Never Forget! _"__Operation Godzilla Smacks Zeus"  ~__Graygor _

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#111 - 2013-01-10 02:58:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
You can't gain XP (experience) without logging in with the character.
Sure you can, if the developer wants to let you. Do you want to take a stab at guessing why they don't?

So again, you can drop the silly charade about it being some kind of massive technical hurdle and that EVE would in any way be unique in how it could allow parallel progression.

Quote:
Technically, I'm not entitled to anything outside of having access to the game which is the ability to log in. According to you and everybody else here it seems, I'm only entitled to one character.
No. According to us, you're entitled to three characters per account, as demonstrated by the three character slots at your disposal. Here, as everywhere else, you can only work on the progression of one of them at a time, though.
Kenneth O'Hara
Sebiestor Tribe
#112 - 2013-01-10 03:14:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenneth O'Hara
Tippia wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
You can't gain XP (experience) without logging in with the character.
Sure you can, if the developer wants to let you. Do you want to take a stab at guessing why they don't?

So again, you can drop the silly charade about it being some kind of massive technical hurdle and that EVE would in any way be unique in how it could allow parallel progression.

Quote:
Technically, I'm not entitled to anything outside of having access to the game which is the ability to log in. According to you and everybody else here it seems, I'm only entitled to one character.
No. According to us, you're entitled to three characters per account, as demonstrated by the three character slots at your disposal. Here, as everywhere else, you can only work on the progression of one of them at a time, though.

Right, so again we come back to money. Which is why CCP changed it in the first place. CCP can't get new players that stick around so they force their current player base to buy multiple accounts to boost overall stats for total accounts instead of actual players that play.

Edit: Prepare for the lock and the CCP clean up.

Bring Saede Riordan back!! Never Forget! _"__Operation Godzilla Smacks Zeus"  ~__Graygor _

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#113 - 2013-01-10 03:16:49 UTC
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
Right, so again we come back to money. Which is why CCP changed it in the first place.
Again, it's how everyone does it. So what?

Quote:
CCP can't get new players that stick around so they force their current player base to buy multiple accounts to boost overall stats for total accounts instead of actual players that play.
…and you have something to back up this piece of tinfoilhattery I suppose?
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#114 - 2013-01-10 03:31:50 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
Right, so again we come back to money. Which is why CCP changed it in the first place. CCP can't get new players that stick around so they force their current player base to buy multiple accounts to boost overall stats for total accounts instead of actual players that play.

Edit: Prepare for the lock and the CCP clean up.



When do you claim that CCP made any such change?

You have never been able to train more than one character on one account. Just like every other MMO where you can only advance with one character at a time per account (people Multibox WOW to progress more than one character, and, surprise to no one, each has to be on a different account).

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Kenneth O'Hara
Sebiestor Tribe
#115 - 2013-01-10 03:34:58 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
Right, so again we come back to money. Which is why CCP changed it in the first place.
Again, it's how everyone does it. So what?

Quote:
CCP can't get new players that stick around so they force their current player base to buy multiple accounts to boost overall stats for total accounts instead of actual players that play.
…and you have something to back up this piece of tinfoilhattery I suppose?

Actually yeah, take a look at all the patches and expansions. When was training of additional characters on the same account at the same time changed? When was the Power of 2 first implemented? When was the plexing service first started? You need to take a look at the games entire history and the stock market history for the company. Also take a look at the market ticker for CCP. Oh wait, you can't because its all private stock.

You're not going to find an article on this because it has to be researched from inside the company and CCP is not going to put something like that on their own because it makes them look bad. The evidence of absence is not the absence of evidence. The research needs to be done.

Bring Saede Riordan back!! Never Forget! _"__Operation Godzilla Smacks Zeus"  ~__Graygor _

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#116 - 2013-01-10 03:56:30 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
Actually yeah, take a look at all the patches and expansions. When was training of additional characters on the same account at the same time changed? When was the Power of 2 first implemented? When was the plexing service first started? You need to take a look at the games entire history and the stock market history for the company. Also take a look at the market ticker for CCP. Oh wait, you can't because its all private stock.

You're not going to find an article on this because it has to be researched from inside the company and CCP is not going to put something like that on their own because it makes them look bad. The evidence of absence is not the absence of evidence. The research needs to be done.



I think that someone would have noticed and publicly commented on a giant change like "you can no longer train 3 characters at once."

Find (and post) some evidence that you could ever train more than one character per account, or take off your tinfoil hat and come back to Earth.

You say the research has to be done, you make the claim, you get to do the research.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Kenneth O'Hara
Sebiestor Tribe
#117 - 2013-01-10 05:50:39 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
Actually yeah, take a look at all the patches and expansions. When was training of additional characters on the same account at the same time changed? When was the Power of 2 first implemented? When was the plexing service first started? You need to take a look at the games entire history and the stock market history for the company. Also take a look at the market ticker for CCP. Oh wait, you can't because its all private stock.

You're not going to find an article on this because it has to be researched from inside the company and CCP is not going to put something like that on their own because it makes them look bad. The evidence of absence is not the absence of evidence. The research needs to be done.



I think that someone would have noticed and publicly commented on a giant change like "you can no longer train 3 characters at once."

Find (and post) some evidence that you could ever train more than one character per account, or take off your tinfoil hat and come back to Earth.

You say the research has to be done, you make the claim, you get to do the research.

I never claimed that it was changed. Read earlier post by someone else. You only read mine and assume it was me that made such claim. I like how you "noticed". I am going based off that other player. Ill of me to make such judgement before reading further into it. If it was never so then so what? I have no need to do the research on this particular point. I will however research everything else. You can take that tinfoilhattery non-sense that you claim I speak and shove it.

What is up with everyone in this game? If someone disagrees with the majority of the older player base, they are considered "stupid". They then precede to talk down to the player, not the opposing idea. It would seem that thinking outside of the norm is highly discouraged.

I'm of course, referring to the earlier block who resorted to a lot of *s in his post to try and prove his point. As for the others, well done on the debate. I will have to concede and count this as a loss for the judges are the same ones I am opposing

Bring Saede Riordan back!! Never Forget! _"__Operation Godzilla Smacks Zeus"  ~__Graygor _

Arduemont
The State of War.
#118 - 2013-01-10 05:55:35 UTC
I've stopped reading this thread, because the complete lack of logic and people just whining that they want more skillpoints has put me off. Moving on.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#119 - 2013-01-10 06:32:50 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
I never claimed that it was changed. Read earlier post by someone else. You only read mine and assume it was me that made such claim. I like how you "noticed". I am going based off that other player. Ill of me to make such judgement before reading further into it. If it was never so then so what? I have no need to do the research on this particular point. I will however research everything else. You can take that tinfoilhattery non-sense that you claim I speak and shove it.


What's all this then?

Kenneth O'Hara wrote:
Right, so again we come back to money. Which is why CCP changed it in the first place. CCP can't get new players that stick around so they force their current player base to buy multiple accounts to boost overall stats for total accounts instead of actual players that play.

Edit: Prepare for the lock and the CCP clean up.


So when do you think CCP changed the number of Characters you can train on each account?

Quote:
What is up with everyone in this game? If someone disagrees with the majority of the older player base, they are considered "stupid". They then precede to talk down to the player, not the opposing idea. It would seem that thinking outside of the norm is highly discouraged.

I'm of course, referring to the earlier block who resorted to a lot of *s in his post to try and prove his point. As for the others, well done on the debate. I will have to concede and count this as a loss for the judges are the same ones I am opposing


We've already dispensed with your argument of "I want extra training for free." You're now bringing up paranoid claims that CCP "changed" the rules to only allow one character to train per account to "boost overall stats."

You need to back those up with evidence before we can systematically dismantle them.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

ISD TYPE40
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#120 - 2013-01-10 07:43:43 UTC
First of all, since this debate appears to be bordering on rule breaking, could I ask that people please take a step back and cool off before this descends in to personal attacks. Secondly, having done a little research on this particular matter, CCP has never allowed training on more than one character on a single account at the same time. There were apparently some bugs many years ago whereby people were able to do so, but obviously they were bugs and were fixed.

Also along those lines was the old ghost training, whereby players were able to effectively train skills for no cost at all, something that was also removed and replaced with the skill queue system we have now. Although EVE's skill training system is very different from almost every other MMO on the market, as far as I am aware, no other game allows you to simultaneously train two characters at once on the the same account and so this method can rightfully be called an "Industry Standard" - ISD Type40.

[b]ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]