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Shake EVE Up a Bit

Author
Verity Auger
House Heronmark
#21 - 2013-01-09 03:36:54 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:

Dreadnoughts do not need to be any better than they already are. They are perfect in siege mode, and aren't supposed to be perfect outside of it. Capital blobs are bad, we get it, but making dreadnoughts better will increase the hold of large alliances, because they can then much more easily take out lesser starbases of small corporations and tiny alliances that otherwise were too much trouble to go after.


I have never felt that dreads are at all perfect. I must challenge you on this as well. Do you fly dreads? I have contributed to the building of about 50 of them and have flown them on many occasions, killing many POSes and otherwise doing crap all.

They are the most useless piles of crap in the game to be honest. Really, who cares about POS destruction with the new sov mechanics? And even if we did care, supercapitals do the job much better with none of the drawbacks. Not one.

We are talking about a giant extremely expensive spaceship gun. But the spaceship gun doesn't fly and it can't shoot anything. Unless said things are absolutely motionless. In space. Where nothing is motionless.

As long as the average Joe EVE player can never get access to the big alliances' "I win" buttons, the moms and titans, the game simply has no future. Already nullsec is stagnant and the long term EVE player like myself, (I have been playing EVE for over 6 years now) has nowhere to go. We live in empire because we can't stand the alliances that do control all of EVE space now, they are asshats, sorry but they are, and as well we know we have no chance, NO CHANCE, of ever owning sov on our own right no matter how active and committed and hardworking and skilled and even lucky we might ever be in a hundred years, with the current game situation and game mechanics. Period. This is a problem, CCP.

I used to auto-sub two accounts and played EVE like a maniac for years. 9 months ago I quit altogether. When I heard about Retribution I resubbed, and have been playing again a couple months now but only on a probationary basis. If the game isn't balanced then the long term player has two choices: join the current Goonblob, which I am sure many find dustateful as I do, if only on principle that no one group should be allowed to control it all, or live in empire and enjoy the game on that limited basis. Neither option makes for long term sustainability for EVE's extended playerbase.

I can't count the number of players, old friends, that I know who have advanced and skilled old guy toons but have quit EVE. I don't see them coming back.

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#22 - 2013-01-09 03:43:04 UTC
Highsec politics and economics are far more stagnant and bland than nullsec politics and economics. I'd much rather see CCP do something to make highsec a more dynamic, interesting and player driven environment than changes to moon goo or whatever the hell it is those nullsec alliances covet.
tleekett
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-01-09 05:19:44 UTC
There is always k-space.
Sigras
Conglomo
#24 - 2013-01-09 12:39:13 UTC
Verity Auger wrote:
I have never felt that dreads are at all perfect. I must challenge you on this as well. Do you fly dreads? I have contributed to the building of about 50 of them and have flown them on many occasions, killing many POSes and otherwise doing crap all.

They are the most useless piles of crap in the game to be honest. Really, who cares about POS destruction with the new sov mechanics? And even if we did care, supercapitals do the job much better with none of the drawbacks. Not one.

please show me a supercarrier that can destroy a large POS . . . . I think the question is do YOU know anything about capitals and supercapitals . . . and reading this last statement i think the answer is no.

also dreads kill supercapitals just fine . . . in fact the each race's dreadnought does more DPS than that race's supercarrier, and at 1/20th the cost, we dont have to worry at all about cost efficiency . . .

Verity Auger wrote:
We are talking about a giant extremely expensive spaceship gun. But the spaceship gun doesn't fly and it can't shoot anything. Unless said things are absolutely motionless. In space. Where nothing is motionless.

The revelation (the worst tracking dread) does 7000+ DPS to a nyx with perfect transversal at 5 km and always does full damage to an avatar.

Not to mention, if youre not an idiot and are backing up your dreads with carriers, they can refit on the fly and move to tracking computers if they need the tracking which they really shouldnt.

Verity Auger wrote:
As long as the average Joe EVE player can never get access to the big alliances' "I win" buttons, the moms and titans, the game simply has no future. Already nullsec is stagnant and the long term EVE player like myself, (I have been playing EVE for over 6 years now) has nowhere to go. We live in empire because we can't stand the alliances that do control all of EVE space now, they are asshats, sorry but they are, and as well we know we have no chance, NO CHANCE, of ever owning sov on our own right no matter how active and committed and hardworking and skilled and even lucky we might ever be in a hundred years, with the current game situation and game mechanics. Period. This is a problem, CCP.

yep checking in confirming that no small group has ever broken off and taken their own sov . . . except for:

FIDELAS CONSTANS
Controlled Chaos
RAGE
Wildly Inappropriate
Solar Fleet (a break off of RA)

the list goes on and on . . . In fact Controlled Chaos were originally renters who struck out on their own.

Just because you cant seem to do it doesnt mean it cant be done.

Also, once again, buffing dreads isnt the way to nerf the blob, what the game needs is more AOE weapons . . . Carpet Bombers and specialized Smartbomb ships. . . the key to killing a cap fleet is destroying its support because cap ships dont do crap to subcap ships
Verity Auger
House Heronmark
#25 - 2013-01-09 13:42:36 UTC
Sigras wrote:

please show me a supercarrier that can destroy a large POS . . . . I think the question is do YOU know anything about capitals and supercapitals . . . and reading this last statement i think the answer is no.


For actually destroying the tower, I realize you need the dreads. For nullifying the tower completely however, when I was living out in nullsec, fighter bombers were much more effective. Now I realize that may have changed in the time I have been away from EVE. My recollections though were that a momblob could jump in and pretty much obliterate jump bridges, guns, scrams, anything you care to name in short order. As well Titans were used against us in the same way. The difference being Dreads had siege mode, which meant motionlessness, for at the time 10 minutes, now 5 I realize, with absolutely no remote rep capability during that period.

Sigras wrote:

also dreads kill supercapitals just fine . . . in fact the each race's dreadnought does more DPS than that race's supercarrier, and at 1/20th the cost, we dont have to worry at all about cost efficiency . . .


I have never seen any instance where dreads were used effectively against titans or supercarriers. When dreads fight titans and supercarriers, they die. With no logistics in siege mode and requiring absolute motionlessness at pretty much point blank range in order to fire, how on earth could they win? THis does not stack up favorably to a swarm of fighter bombers. I have seen it.

Sigras wrote:

Not to mention, if youre not an idiot and are backing up your dreads with carriers, they can refit on the fly and move to tracking computers if they need the tracking which they really shouldnt.


I have never ever seen a fleet where this occurred. Refitting dreads in space from carriers sounds great but adding tracking computers? While under attack from momships? Under siege mode? Now it's my turn to ask you if you have ever been out there.

Sigras wrote:

yep checking in confirming that no small group has ever broken off and taken their own sov . . . except for:

FIDELAS CONSTANS
Controlled Chaos
RAGE
Wildly Inappropriate
Solar Fleet (a break off of RA)

the list goes on and on . . . In fact Controlled Chaos were originally renters who struck out on their own.

Just because you cant seem to do it doesnt mean it cant be done.


Every one of these groups were able to do what they did only because of blue status and "permission" from larger entities, either explicit or implied. I know FCON I have flown with them for years and we were there when they first took sovereignty. Without support from the existing powers that be they would never have broken in. We later tried it ourselves with a small alliance and were immediately wardec'd by Goons and their pets, and they basically drove us out of the least desirable space in EVE just for the fun of it, and there was absolutely nothing we could do about it, even with an alliance of hundreds of members.

Sigras wrote:

Also, once again, buffing dreads isnt the way to nerf the blob, what the game needs is more AOE weapons . . . Carpet Bombers and specialized Smartbomb ships. . . the key to killing a cap fleet is destroying its support because cap ships dont do crap to subcap ships


AOE weapons were what the Titans orignally had, and they were removed entirely. I am not talking about fleet tactics. I am talking about intensely OP vessels (supers) that only certain groups can get and which only certain groups have huge numbers of, which at the same time cannot be reasonably acquired unless that same group or groups gives permission. It's as though in an FPS just a few people are allowed to have the "golden gun" and everyone else just can't get one. It breaks the game.
Anthar Thebess
#26 - 2013-01-09 13:42:52 UTC
A little smaller change :
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=182784&p=2

But your idea is good
Verity Auger
House Heronmark
#27 - 2013-01-09 13:47:52 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Highsec politics and economics are far more stagnant and bland than nullsec politics and economics. I'd much rather see CCP do something to make highsec a more dynamic, interesting and player driven environment than changes to moon goo or whatever the hell it is those nullsec alliances covet.


Highsec kind of is what it is. I am not averse to changes to mission mechanics or improved PvP training from some sort of NPC perspective for newer players. But that isn't what this is about.

This is about older players being funneled into one of no more than three major organizations in order to have access to "end game" content and not having any reasonable chance of victory trying to form alliances of their own to compete with these existing powers. That should never have been allowed.

Every group or alliance in the game, if they are willing to put in the time and effort, should be able to field a weapon in nullsec that is competitive. I pick dreads because largely they seem pretty useless other than for shooting POSes, and even while doing that they are much more vulnerable than any other capital class vessel in comparison.

If they were a viable weapon for use against the superblob, then a broader spectrum of EVE players might become more confident about at least trying to break into nullsec, at least that is what I am proposing.
Verity Auger
House Heronmark
#28 - 2013-01-09 18:44:59 UTC
I suppose the other alternative should have been more obvious to me; simply allow titans and supercarriers to dock at stations and allow them to be built in stations. This would accomplish the same thing in terms of levelling the playing field; people would be able to build the top weapons in the game wherever they were able to do so and then field these same weapons in nullsec.

I was approaching it from an "increase destruction, more fights please" perspective at first; this would simply allow an arms race to progress where empire dwellers would be able to produce even more "I win button" supercaps. I suppose this would remove the need to change dreads. I honestly prefer more fights.
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