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The Venture needs a nerf?
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Ayeson
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#41 - 2013-01-08 16:34:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayeson
Rek Seven wrote:
Ayeson wrote:


Answering my question with another question, I see what you did there. To answer yours, No, Its called being prepared. Starting forum post and calling for a ship to be nerfed because you cant fit a TS scram is laughable.


Why wouldn't i be able to fit a true sansha scram?

Again i ask, would the venture be good enough without the +2 warp strength? Not looking to get into a pissing contest with internet tough guys.


Ill answer your question with another question. Why would they make a specific frigate designed for solo gas mining that dies every time someone lands on grid with it, guaranteed, unless you had more people on grid to defend it?

    Design philosophy
  • Identify or understand your problem.
    • Gas ships die alot because they get pointed, they are battlecruisers and warp slow Q.Q
  • Devise a plan to rectify it.
    • Warp Strength bonus to new mining frig, also it goes fast
  • Implement your solution.
    • Done, it works
  • Review whether it was successful
    • Gas ships no longer ALWAYS die when things land on grid, WIN.
    Gas ships are still killable and die a lot, Game not broken


Overall, I think its a good design

I ♥ the orthrus
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2013-01-08 16:38:20 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:

I don't have an issue with the current setup of the venture. Given that you can get it to almost 3 sec align time, even without the WCS plenty will get away.

And it isn't trolling. It is calling you out on your whiny, elitist, entitled attitude.


So let me get this straight... When you finally get around to comment on the intended subject, you actually agree with me that the Venture doesn't need so many bonuses to be a good miner?!

... what a grade a tard

Blocked

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Ayeson
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#43 - 2013-01-08 16:40:57 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:

And it isn't trolling. It is calling you out on your whiny, elitist, entitled attitude.


Quoting for emphasis, Maybe I can get blocked too?

I ♥ the orthrus
Derath Ellecon
ATRAX.
Shadow Cartel
#44 - 2013-01-08 16:42:40 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:

I don't have an issue with the current setup of the venture. Given that you can get it to almost 3 sec align time, even without the WCS plenty will get away.

And it isn't trolling. It is calling you out on your whiny, elitist, entitled attitude.


So let me get this straight... When you finally get around to comment on the intended subject, you actually agree with me that the Venture doesn't need so many bonuses to be a good miner?!

... what a grade a tard

Blocked


The butthurt is strong with this one.

No I'm saying you probably couldnt catch one even without the WCS bonus.

My first block. I feel so special.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2013-01-08 16:43:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Ayeson wrote:

Ill answer your question with another question. Why would they make a specific frigate designed for solo gas mining that dies every time someone lands on grid with it, guaranteed, unless you had more people on grid to defend it?

    Design philosophy
  • Identify or understand your problem.
    • Gas ships die alot because they get pointed, they are battlecruisers and warp slow Q.Q
  • Devise a plan to rectify it.
    • Warp Strength bonus to new mining frig, also it goes fast
  • Implement your solution.
    • Done, it works
  • Review whether it was successful
    • Gas ships no longer ALWAYS die when things land on grid, WIN.
    Gas ships are still killable and die a lot, Game not broken


Overall, I think its a good design


Thanks for finally being somewhat constructive instead of just being a smart arse.

If you think a 3 second align time and a sig radius of a drone isn't enough for a active pilot to escape that's your opinion. Lol

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Ayeson
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#46 - 2013-01-08 16:47:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayeson
Rek Seven wrote:

Thanks for finally being somewhat constructive instead of just being a smart arse.

If you thing a 3 second align time and a sig radius of a drone isn't enough for a active pilot to escape that's your opinion. Lol


Hey, we've killed ventures in ladars, not tons, but you can just kill them elsewhere, like on holes n such.

It all depends on the pilot really, which is what everything in eve comes down to. "How reactive is the guy behind the other keyboard?"

The venture just give the other guy a tool, just like the sansha's did with their glorious triplescram.

I ♥ the orthrus
Omen Nihilo
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2013-01-08 16:49:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Omen Nihilo
If you're not using bubbles to catch gas miners you're doing it wrong.

I don't see how the venture changes anything.

1) Get warpin
2) Squad warp sabre
3) Drop bubble
4) ???
5) Profit

If they're watching d-scan they'll get away—it doesn't matter if they're in a ferox or a venture.

If they aren't watching d-scan you'll get them—it's as simple as that.
Ayeson
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#48 - 2013-01-08 16:53:30 UTC
Omen Nihilo wrote:
If you're not using bubbles to catch gas miners you're doing it wrong.

I don't see how the venture changes anything.

1) Get warpin
2) Squad warp sabre
3) Drop bubble
4) ???
5) Profit

If they're watching d-scan they'll get away—it doesn't matter if they're in a ferox or a venture.

If they aren't watching d-scan you'll get them—it's as simple as that.


another QFE

I ♥ the orthrus
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2013-01-08 16:57:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
I can't really argue there.

I just hate the little *******. i know corps that have chosen to gas mine instead of shooting sleepers because it's "easier". Now what am i to do with all my t3's? Sad

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Maggeridon Thoraz
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2013-01-08 17:14:37 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
you don't catch ventures at a ladar site, you catch them at the WH the run to when you spook them with combats on D.



oh you have new glasses :-)
Maggeridon Thoraz
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2013-01-08 17:16:24 UTC
if you live in wh you should be able to afford a faction +3 scrambler
Derath Ellecon
ATRAX.
Shadow Cartel
#52 - 2013-01-08 17:17:14 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
I can't really argue there.

I just hate the little *******. i know corps that have choose to gas mine instead of shooting sleepers because it's "easier". Now what am i to do with all my t3's? Sad



Hey I know I'm blocked, but if you ever see me gas mining (it happens occasionally when bored enough) just say hi and I promise I'll reship into something worth shooting at.
Omen Nihilo
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2013-01-08 17:17:21 UTC
Maggeridon Thoraz wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
you don't catch ventures at a ladar site, you catch them at the WH the run to when you spook them with combats on D.



oh you have new glasses :-)

Needs monocle
ROSSLINDEN0
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#54 - 2013-01-08 18:31:14 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
LordSpock wrote:
Bamsey Amraa wrote:
Last time we use HIC and Rook with smartbombs...... 9 ventures killed with eggs :D


Rook or Rokh? But yeah, this works well I guess. Scan ladar site, warp in cloaked. Createw corpbookmark, warp HIC in and bubble when landed is nice littel explosions.

But no I don't think it needs a nerf. Are they overpowerd? No. Can they be oneshotted by ArtyCane? I think so. So what is the problem?


My point is, where is the risk?

The only way you can kill one is if the pilot is not paying attention or if you have pre-scanned the site. I'm not saying that they are impossible to catch but i do feel they have too many bonuses. Why do they need + 2 warp strength with such a good align time?

The energy involved in setting up a successful gank is disproportionate to the cost of the ship IMO.

Also, one thing to consider is that it doesn't leave much room for a T2/T3 gas miner because the venture is already so awesome.


What is the difference between a venture and a moa? moa is crazy hard to scan aswell, moa can fit stabs, moa aligns just as fast if you fit friction rigs like everyone does and costs fuk all, btw what fuktard mines in a t2/3.
NERF DA MOA!!!
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#55 - 2013-01-08 19:16:15 UTC
Bamsey Amraa wrote:
Last time we use HIC and Rook with smartbombs...... 9 ventures killed with eggs :D

While some whine and want someone else to take care of their problems, the wise adapt and solve the problems themselves with more explosions.

I like it. More explosions, that is.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2013-01-08 19:18:09 UTC
ROSSLINDEN0 wrote:

What is the difference between a venture and a moa? moa is crazy hard to scan aswell, moa can fit stabs, moa aligns just as fast if you fit friction rigs like everyone does and costs fuk all, btw what fuktard mines in a t2/3.
NERF DA MOA!!!


Other that the things already mentioned, the main advantage of the using a venture over a moa is obviously the Ore hold. In the past you may have jet can mined and then come to collect your gas in a hauler when you are done, providing an ideal opportunity for a hunter to ambush/kill you. Hauling isn't such an issue in the venture.

Who mines in a T2 hull? hulks pilots for one... maybe you misunderstood.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Oxandrolone
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2013-01-08 19:55:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Oxandrolone
Its the same crap as highsec mining bears.

Every ship in the game requires you to fit your ship, to make trade offs, yield/damage vs tank, utility vs cap regen etc etc.

Brainded miners refused to fit their ships for anything except max yield and cryed for so long CCP made the ships so they didnt need to fit them at all. They gave ore miners tank and massive hold and they gave gas miners the venture, almost instawarping hard to scan frigate with +2 warp core strength, such bs.

Gave mining ships stats so they dont have to fit for them.
Oxandrolone
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2013-01-08 20:09:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Oxandrolone
The main problem is not the warp core strength and its so hard to tackle them....

The problem is with a perfect skilled virtue scanner you need to go to 1.00 AU which is mostly gonna be atleast 2 scans and then when you dictor lands with them it has about 3 seconds before it can drop a bubble meanwhile the venture aligns and warps in about 1.5 seconds.

The only way to catch one who is paying attention is too pre-bm the sight (so you dont have to scan it)

and then warp there in a cloaky T3 with +3 jam strength and decloak it with a bumb so it doesnt align and warp off before you cloaking delay ends. Or cloaky with smartbombs i guess might work.
Sir John Halsey
#59 - 2013-01-08 20:21:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir John Halsey
Oxandrolone wrote:
The main problem is not the warp core strength and its so hard to tackle them....

The problem is with a perfect skilled virtue scanner you need to go to 1.00 AU which is mostly gonna be atleast 2 scans and then when you dictor lands with them it has about 3 seconds before it can drop a bubble meanwhile the venture aligns and warps in about 1.5 seconds.

The only way to catch one who is paying attention is too pre-bm the sight (so you dont have to scan it)

and then warp there in a cloaky T3 with +3 jam strength and decloak it with a bumb so it doesnt align and warp off before you cloaking delay ends. Or cloaky with smartbombs i guess might work.


Tackle it is not a problem.
If they are afk you can easily kill them.
You have mods to tackle them ;) ... Actually you can do it with one mod only.

If they are in your hole and you can't kill them, you are doing it wrong:
In your hole you should already have the ladar/radar scanned + all incoming WHs.
You can either warp to ladar cloaked, bookmark fly dictor and bubble or warp a regular ship to make them run back to the exit WH (which is bubbled right?) where they go boom.

Pick your poison.

There is one more case ... smart people ... you won't be able to kill them anyway which makes all this chit chat about the +2 stab useless :)
4runner
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2013-01-08 20:24:22 UTC
You know this game has gone to hell when people are crying for a carebear frig to be OPLol