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When will the GM team be producing their response to the Miner Bumping Discussion Thread?

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Lin Suizei
#141 - 2013-01-08 06:49:07 UTC
Anndy wrote:
yes the same line pretty much every dictator, tyrant, and terrorist has used to justify their actions


So tell us then, on what grounds should we listen to you, and recognize that bumping is "wrong"?

Lol I can't delete my forum sig.
Max Doobie
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#142 - 2013-01-08 06:49:07 UTC
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
Max Doobie wrote:


Nothing will happen mate. Sorry to tell you. CCP will continue to listen to the Nullers who complain about risk vs reward all the while being in Alliances blue to over 50% of Nullsec. Complete stupidity and hypocrisy, but what can you do?

"MINERS IN HIGHSEC ARE TOO SAFE....OHWAIT....I'M BUDDEEZ WITH PRETTY MUCH ALL OF NULLSEC, SO MY MINER ALT IS ACTUALLY SAFER THAN THE AVERAGE HIGHSEC MINER....DERP...WERP...FLERP...SLERP...HERP...."


Yeah.

...and yes, I'm in TEST but I don't say those sort of things about Highseccers. Not all nullsec folks agree with this "nerf highsec" crap. I personally think bumping is lame and ********. It's something anti-social people do to annoy people. That and its completely risk free "HEY DOESNT DAT GO AGANZ WUT THEY BELEEV??? DAT FOLKZ SHOULDNT BE ABULZ TO MAKE ISKEEZ WITHOUT RISKEEZ"?

Yes indeedy...but since when have sociopaths given a damn about being consistent?

You might want to get that MPD checked out.

You might also want to consider finding a corp that will appreciate your special blend of personality more than Dreddit does, but there you go.


TEST gets a subsidy for accepting mentally ill people. Montolio himself has been very clear that I am merely an affirmative action hire and will not be taken seriously. I am to just take my pills and sippy cup of apple juice and sit in the corner. I'm not even supposed to be posting.

...so keep your mouth shut. Keep this between us....and the,hundreds of people who will read this post :)
Lexmana
#143 - 2013-01-08 06:50:24 UTC
bump
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#144 - 2013-01-08 06:53:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Anndy wrote:
Lin Suizei wrote:
Anndy wrote:
and that logic is exactly why things need to be change, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should or that its the right thing to do


Because clearly, we should all adhere to a single definition of what is "right" and "wrong", as defined by you.


yes the same line pretty much every dictator, tyrant, and terrorist has used to justify their actions


Video game != real life. No one playing this game is a dictator, tyrant, or terrorist*... but the thing about a sandbox is, their in-game character CAN be a dictator, tyrant or terrorist. So what? It's a game. If you have a problem with it, then you deal with it IN GAME. You wanna take on "bad people doing bad things" then do it in the game. Don't expect CCP to come along and turn their sandbox into a concrete slab just because you can't handle sinking a little.

*Somehow, I imagine they have more pressing concerns to deal with.

However, if your little comparison was to parallel some link between someone playing the game in a style that you think they shouldn't and terrorist or criminal behaviour, than please, collect your tears in a bottle and share them around.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
TharOkha
0asis Group
#145 - 2013-01-08 07:02:29 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
Frostys Virpio wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
TharOkha wrote:
BoSau Hotim wrote:
I'm surprised that the miner bumping 'issue' has become an issue for the Dev's to consider. What about bumping vet miners who mine out all the ore in starter systems?

Miner bumping isnt the problem. It can be easy avoided (if you are not AFK) Problem is freighter bumping with frigates and LOL bumping with stabbers so it cannot warp out. It just doesnt make sense


Logoffski and you disappear in 60s.

Log back in a few minutes later and warp off.


It's hard to pull off when you afk auto-pilot a freighter full of stuff.


Yeah, because every freighter pilot is AFKer right? Roll

While miner CAN avoid bumping just by simply NOT be AFK, freighter pilot cannot. Im talking about LOL bumping near the gates which is pure grief. And thats why DEVs considers this as an issue.

Also bumping freighter with frigate? IdealogicIdea

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Anndy
The Evocati
#146 - 2013-01-08 07:02:53 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Anndy wrote:
Lin Suizei wrote:
Anndy wrote:
and that logic is exactly why things need to be change, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should or that its the right thing to do


Because clearly, we should all adhere to a single definition of what is "right" and "wrong", as defined by you.


yes the same line pretty much every dictator, tyrant, and terrorist has used to justify their actions


Video game != real life. No one playing this game is a dictator, tyrant, or terrorist*... but the thing about a sandbox is, their in-game character CAN be a dictator, tyrant or terrorist. So what? It's a game. If you have a problem with it, then you deal with it IN GAME. You wanna take on "bad people doing bad things" then do it in the game. Don't expect CCP to come along and turn their sandbox into a concrete slab just because you can't handle sinking a little.

*Somehow, I imagine they have more pressing concerns to deal with.


you know its funny, before goons and their bull **** came along this game was actually fun but all goons have brought us is the mentally ill that only desire to abuse people and ruin the game for others

this game used to be fun, it was never just about the gank or sipping tears, it was a quality community that had honor and respected others, sure we still had scams and greifing but it wasn't widespread like it is now, this community has really became just a bunch of people looking to **** anyone and everyone every chance they get then turn around and brag about it
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#147 - 2013-01-08 07:13:26 UTC
TharOkha wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
TharOkha wrote:
BoSau Hotim wrote:
I'm surprised that the miner bumping 'issue' has become an issue for the Dev's to consider. What about bumping vet miners who mine out all the ore in starter systems?

Miner bumping isnt the problem. It can be easy avoided (if you are not AFK) Problem is freighter bumping with frigates and LOL bumping with stabbers so it cannot warp out. It just doesnt make sense


Logoffski and you disappear in 60s.

Log back in a few minutes later and warp off.


It's hard to pull off when you afk auto-pilot a freighter full of stuff.


Yeah, because every freighter pilot is AFKer right? Roll

While miner CAN avoid bumping just by simply NOT be AFK, freighter pilot cannot. Im talking about LOL bumping near the gates which is pure grief. And thats why DEVs considers this as an issue.

Also bumping freighter with frigate? IdealogicIdea


Care to link where devs sais the issue was about freighter being bumped near gates?
Lexmana
#148 - 2013-01-08 07:21:19 UTC
This is just pure gold. First, miners complained about ganking and hulkageddon but then CCP buffed mining barges and exhumers. Now miners complain about bumping. I wonder what is next .... miners complain about ... other miners depleting their belt?
Captain Death1
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#149 - 2013-01-08 07:23:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Death1
admiral root wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Guarantee bumping miners will be considered griefing by this time next week. That sure will resolve the problem too.

I mean it's not like the entire thing was caused by the nerf to excessive buffs to mining barge EHP or anything and even if it was you can't do anything that would upset the miners.


If the small minority of whiners think it's bad now, wait and see how much we ramp up suicide ganking ops if bumping does magically become an exploit. Will we be back here in 6 months because of epic whining about suicide ganking? Will CCP suddenly rule that an exploit? What about the awoxing that we're sure to employ if ganking gets banned?

Still, hopefully, the GMs will look at the facts and see that our "victims" clearly have sufficient tools at their disposal to defend themselves already.





says the grifter easy fix unsub keep up with forums when bumping is fixed sub again
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#150 - 2013-01-08 07:24:11 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
This is just pure gold. First, miners complained about ganking and hulkageddon but then CCP buffed mining barges and exhumers. Now miners complain about bumping. I wonder what is next .... miners complain about ... other miners depleting their belt?


Lets introduce infinite capacity rocks. THen, as the mineral price goes too low, they will ask for buff to the market value of minerals making ship and stuff require more units to be produced.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#151 - 2013-01-08 07:48:15 UTC
Anndy wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Anndy wrote:
Lin Suizei wrote:
Anndy wrote:
and that logic is exactly why things need to be change, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should or that its the right thing to do


Because clearly, we should all adhere to a single definition of what is "right" and "wrong", as defined by you.


yes the same line pretty much every dictator, tyrant, and terrorist has used to justify their actions


Video game != real life. No one playing this game is a dictator, tyrant, or terrorist*... but the thing about a sandbox is, their in-game character CAN be a dictator, tyrant or terrorist. So what? It's a game. If you have a problem with it, then you deal with it IN GAME. You wanna take on "bad people doing bad things" then do it in the game. Don't expect CCP to come along and turn their sandbox into a concrete slab just because you can't handle sinking a little.

*Somehow, I imagine they have more pressing concerns to deal with.


you know its funny, before goons and their bull **** came along this game was actually fun but all goons have brought us is the mentally ill that only desire to abuse people and ruin the game for others

this game used to be fun, it was never just about the gank or sipping tears, it was a quality community that had honor and respected others, sure we still had scams and greifing but it wasn't widespread like it is now, this community has really became just a bunch of people looking to **** anyone and everyone every chance they get then turn around and brag about it


I'm pretty sure you're just being obnoxious now. The mentally ill? Grow up. If you knew anything about mental illness, you wouldn't equate it with people blowing up your pixels for ***** and giggles. If you're not having fun, then what are you doing here? "This game used to be fun" - but it isn't anymore? I'm having plenty of fun, but if it ever became no longer fun for me, I would leave.

Don't blame anyone else for your own masochism if you're the one putting yourself through something you can't (or refuse to) enjoy for the sake of reasons to make changes to game mechanics that are working as intended.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#152 - 2013-01-08 07:54:03 UTC  |  Edited by: JC Anderson
Remiel Pollard wrote:


While this would be incredibly hilarious to see, can you imagine the carnage at the undock of any busy trading hub such as, say, Jita 4-4, with the implementation of collision damage?


That's it I vote for the collision damage option!

Especially if it results in Concord killing both ships since they would both be damaged.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#153 - 2013-01-08 08:18:03 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
TharOkha wrote:
BoSau Hotim wrote:
I'm surprised that the miner bumping 'issue' has become an issue for the Dev's to consider. What about bumping vet miners who mine out all the ore in starter systems?

Miner bumping isnt the problem. It can be easy avoided (if you are not AFK) Problem is freighter bumping with frigates and LOL bumping with stabbers so it cannot warp out. It just doesnt make sense


Logoffski and you disappear in 60s.

Log back in a few minutes later and warp off.


It's hard to pull off when you afk auto-pilot a freighter full of stuff.


So don't Autopilot AFK if it's too risky for you.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#154 - 2013-01-08 08:20:23 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
To reiterate on what people have said, this is still being discussed given the fact its a seen as a "widespread issue" by a lot of people.

It's January 7th, we still have a fair number of staff who are visiting their families or otherwise taking time out over the holiday period.

There'll be a response, and as was pointed out, it was stated that it'll be after the New Year.

I've given the GM Team a heads up regarding this thread Smile


It's not considered a "widespread issue" by a lot of people. It's a tiny none issue but the tiny, tiny minority who think EVE should be a wow-clone never shut the hell up
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#155 - 2013-01-08 08:25:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
It's sad to see the non-carebears letting themselves always get dragged into discussions
with the carebears. You non-carebears act as if it was a necessity to talk to them,
ignoring that it makes you just as weak as them.

The non-carebears don't have any way to force anything onto us. They are weaklings.
The only reason they succeed is because *you let them* !

Well all know the right way to deal with bigmouths, so why do you keep talking pointless discussions
which have *no* end, because they'll never understand anyway ? They are like the kid that keeps running
a bigmouth and when you slap them, he starts to cry and runs to his mother.

This whole discussion is *pointless*. It's as pointless as any other discussion with them ever was and will be.
But every time one of these discussions start, it plays right into their hands. From one nerf to the next nerf.

You keep talking and let CCP decide things for you. That's what they want and that's what they'll achieve,
because you don't actually do anything against them ... no ... you just keep talking. From one nerf to the next nerf.


I feel sad for New Eden.


o/
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#156 - 2013-01-08 08:31:10 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
So... instance undocks so that station games are even safer by preventing people from bumping them out of docking range? Prevent people from bumping gatecrashers away from the gate?


Please read what I write more carefully in future - I never said I supported a collision damage system, I was merely outlining the work that would go into it. All you've done is suggest that if such a system were to be implemented, gamers would have to think of new ways to prevent people from docking or jumping, and since "gatecrashers" are really only a problem in low or nul, that's what your guns are for.


Did I say that you supported it? I just rephrased your outline in simpler terms and expanded on it.

If removing collision detection were to be implemented, what new method would you use to prevent a tanky ship from crashing the gate? (Because they are guaranteed 1 MWD cycle, Scram and web often is not enough.)

What method would you use to keep a Titan outside of a POS shield for long enough to kill it after it sticks its nose out to DD something? Because why should it only be gates and stations that are magical grids of collision-free space?

Quote:
That doesn't mean it can't be done, or that it won't be done, just that it would entail a lot of work, which is the point that I was making.

I'm starting to see why people accuse you of logical fallacies. Please try to get the point being made right before you go trying to debate something that isn't actually worth debating, especially if the person making the point does not, in any way, support a collision damage system. If such a system were to be implemented, then the pathfinding algorithms would have to a whole hell of a lot better too otherwise hitting "orbit" near any kind of debris in a battlefield is going to get very messy, which is even more work. And the more work and complex code in a game, the more likely things are to go wrong with it.

Seriously, though, read posts before you reply to them.


But it probably means that it shouldn't be done. Which is the point I was making.

When each new change issued in an attempt to "fix" a "problem" spawns two new ones or requires increasingly bizarre justifications, you might consider looking at the "problem" and see if it's worth "fixing," or even if it's actually a problem in the first place.

In the case of bumping, it is very much working as intended. As for miners, just remember, industrialized ganking was much easier to counter than bumping (tanking their ship was all that was required), and it was entirely their complaints that spelled the end of industrialized ganking and the rise of bumping.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#157 - 2013-01-08 08:32:45 UTC  |  Edited by: TheGunslinger42
Tali Ambraelle wrote:
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
Yusef Yeasef Yosef wrote:
Just because a Company doesn't want to admit it, doesn't mean it isn't true. Plenty of examples of that.

This is EVE. CCP's game. Not Yusef's game. It doesn't matter what you think harassment means. In this context, the only relevant definition is CCP's definition.


Eve is a game. This is not the real world. Just because you are so disconnected from reality that you think harassment in the true sense of the word is ONLY defined by a game company doesn't mean others will feed into your delusion.

You and others like you are so disconnected from the real world that I believe you need to have a time out Smile


You're the one who is incredibly disconnected from the real world if you think real life definitions of "harassment" include preventing your character in a video game from making the maximum amount of imaginary in game money, especially if the game is based on being highly competitive and player driven
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#158 - 2013-01-08 08:48:22 UTC
TharOkha wrote:
Yeah, because every freighter pilot is AFKer right? Roll

While miner CAN avoid bumping just by simply NOT be AFK, freighter pilot cannot. Im talking about LOL bumping near the gates which is pure grief. And thats why DEVs considers this as an issue.

Also bumping freighter with frigate? IdealogicIdea


http://www.physicstogo.org/images/features/supertanker-large-7-26-07.jpg

Small Ship + Oversized Engine muscles around Giant Ship + Weak engine. Looks like it's working just fine.

Just like a Frigate (or more likely a cruiser) bumping a Freighter around. KE=.5MV^2. In other words, a 10mn AB Dramiel (mass 5.9m kg, speed 5800m/s) has 190 trillion Joules of Kinetic energy, while a Charon (mass 960m kg, speed 94m/s) has only 10 trillion Joules of Kinetic energy. (The Dram also carries 2.5 times the momentum of the Charon.)

A bog standard 1mn MWD Dramiel (1.5 million kg, 6100m/s) still has over 40 trillion Joules of Kinetic energy to the Freighters 10 trillion.

Why are you surprised that a ship with more energy and momentum than your freighter is able to knock your frieghter around?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#159 - 2013-01-08 09:09:58 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
TharOkha wrote:
Yeah, because every freighter pilot is AFKer right? Roll

While miner CAN avoid bumping just by simply NOT be AFK, freighter pilot cannot. Im talking about LOL bumping near the gates which is pure grief. And thats why DEVs considers this as an issue.

Also bumping freighter with frigate? IdealogicIdea


http://www.physicstogo.org/images/features/supertanker-large-7-26-07.jpg

Small Ship + Oversized Engine muscles around Giant Ship + Weak engine. Looks like it's working just fine.

Just like a Frigate (or more likely a cruiser) bumping a Freighter around. KE=.5MV^2. In other words, a 10mn AB Dramiel (mass 5.9m kg, speed 5800m/s) has 190 trillion Joules of Kinetic energy, while a Charon (mass 960m kg, speed 94m/s) has only 10 trillion Joules of Kinetic energy. (The Dram also carries 2.5 times the momentum of the Charon.)

A bog standard 1mn MWD Dramiel (1.5 million kg, 6100m/s) still has over 40 trillion Joules of Kinetic energy to the Freighters 10 trillion.

Why are you surprised that a ship with more energy and momentum than your freighter is able to knock your frieghter around?


I just always wonder where all the extra mass given by the MWD comes from.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#160 - 2013-01-08 09:11:31 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
TharOkha wrote:
Yeah, because every freighter pilot is AFKer right? Roll

While miner CAN avoid bumping just by simply NOT be AFK, freighter pilot cannot. Im talking about LOL bumping near the gates which is pure grief. And thats why DEVs considers this as an issue.

Also bumping freighter with frigate? IdealogicIdea


http://www.physicstogo.org/images/features/supertanker-large-7-26-07.jpg

Small Ship + Oversized Engine muscles around Giant Ship + Weak engine. Looks like it's working just fine.

Just like a Frigate (or more likely a cruiser) bumping a Freighter around. KE=.5MV^2. In other words, a 10mn AB Dramiel (mass 5.9m kg, speed 5800m/s) has 190 trillion Joules of Kinetic energy, while a Charon (mass 960m kg, speed 94m/s) has only 10 trillion Joules of Kinetic energy. (The Dram also carries 2.5 times the momentum of the Charon.)

A bog standard 1mn MWD Dramiel (1.5 million kg, 6100m/s) still has over 40 trillion Joules of Kinetic energy to the Freighters 10 trillion.

Why are you surprised that a ship with more energy and momentum than your freighter is able to knock your frieghter around?


I just always wonder where all the extra mass given by the MWD comes from.


E=MC^2

More speed = more mass

deal with it.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104