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**NEW IDEA: FW profitable only for those who pvp! weirrd? read this!**

Author
praznimrak
Level Up
#21 - 2013-01-07 13:10:03 UTC
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My youtube chanell: http://www.youtube.com/user/EveOnlineGameplay

Checksum Error
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-01-07 13:15:42 UTC
So let list this Idea with some Bulletpoints and in very short that all can understand
I will also add in to this list my Ideas.

  • 1. LP Store Discount is based on your rank.
  • 2. Your Rank is based on the amount of Values you kill for Your Militia (System similar to the new Bounty System)
  • 3. Your Rank is visible through Medals you can achive.
  • 4. You can have a Ladder to see who ist the biggest FW Killer in New Eden
  • 5. Your Rank will fade away slowly if you are no more Active in FW
  • 6. Your Rank will be Resetted if you Change sides.
  • 7. More shiptypes are allowed like Ceptors and T2 Frigates in Novice
  • 8. BC and T3 in Medium Sized
  • 9. Boosters must be inside Plex
  • 10. Challenging NPCs inside Plexes to make anyone think bevore entering Plex and to prioritize Group Efforts against single Farmers.

  • So i think this list is big enough and we can Hope that CCP will read it and do it.

    Regards
    Checksum
    praznimrak
    Level Up
    #23 - 2013-01-07 13:38:39 UTC
    Checksum Error wrote:
    So let list this Idea with some Bulletpoints and in very short that all can understand
    I will also add in to this list my Ideas.

  • 1. LP Store Discount is based on your rank.
  • 2. Your Rank is based on the amount of Values you kill for Your Militia (System similar to the new Bounty System)
  • 3. Your Rank is visible through Medals you can achive.
  • 4. You can have a Ladder to see who ist the biggest FW Killer in New Eden
  • 5. Your Rank will fade away slowly if you are no more Active in FW
  • 6. Your Rank will be Resetted if you Change sides.
  • 7. More shiptypes are allowed like Ceptors and T2 Frigates in Novice
  • 8. BC and T3 in Medium Sized
  • 9. Boosters must be inside Plex
  • 10. Challenging NPCs inside Plexes to make anyone think bevore entering Plex and to prioritize Group Efforts against single Farmers.

  • So i think this list is big enough and we can Hope that CCP will read it and do it.

    Regards
    Checksum


    Hey we nead more ppl like you,ppl who actuali think how to improve this game.You did get well what im saying and now i would like to comment some of your ideas.

    *1 LP Store Discount is based on your rank.---No,like this tier zone control will be uslles,and i think we nead to have it cose it prevents a lot of exploits.My idea is that HIGHER THE RANK MORE PORCENTAGE OF BENEFIT FROM TIER SISTEM YOU GET,meaning rank 0=0% benefits from tier rank,TOp rank =100% benefit from tier rank.
    *2 Yes
    *3 Yes
    *4 Yes
    *5 Yes
    *6 Hell yeah that will fix a lot of awoxing and farming
    *7 More shiptypes are allowed like Ceptors and T2 Frigates in Novice---No we nead to have that plex only for new players,i prefer removing faction and pirats frigs from that plex
    *8 BC and T3 in Medium Sized-No BC are fine cose t2 cruisers and bc are more less same level but t3 cruisers are too much.
    *9 I dont care abouth that especiali having in mind that it woud not work cose boosters canot enter novice,small and medium eather...so see it your self.
    *10 Just leave Npc the way it is now,plexing was boring before and now is fun we just nead to deploy propesed sistem to avoid farming and thats all.

    My youtube chanell: http://www.youtube.com/user/EveOnlineGameplay

    Checksum Error
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #24 - 2013-01-07 16:11:32 UTC
    [quote]1 LP Store Discount is based on your rank.---No,like this tier zone control will be uslles,and i think we nead to have it cose it prevents a lot of exploits.My idea is that HIGHER THE RANK MORE PORCENTAGE OF BENEFIT FROM TIER SISTEM YOU GET,meaning rank 0=0% benefits from tier rank,TOp rank =100% benefit from tier rank.[Quote]

    I still try to understand maybee we are at the same page maybee not.
    So for clarification i try to describe this Point better.

    In this Scenario The amount of LP you will get and how Holding Systems and the Level of the system influence the amount of LP you get. Is exactly the same as it is today.

    The difference is that the shop Prices Change depending on the Medal/Rank Level you are significantly.
    This way you would have as a CCP developer one easy way to redesign the whole FW without redoing the whole Thing.



    So if you think i have still not get the whole idea please try to clarify this for me a bit more detailed with examples.
    Sorry for that but maybee i am getting old :-)


    praznimrak
    Level Up
    #25 - 2013-01-07 17:52:10 UTC
    Checksum Error wrote:
    [quote]1 LP Store Discount is based on your rank.---No,like this tier zone control will be uslles,and i think we nead to have it cose it prevents a lot of exploits.My idea is that HIGHER THE RANK MORE PORCENTAGE OF BENEFIT FROM TIER SISTEM YOU GET,meaning rank 0=0% benefits from tier rank,TOp rank =100% benefit from tier rank.[Quote]

    I still try to understand maybee we are at the same page maybee not.
    So for clarification i try to describe this Point better.

    In this Scenario The amount of LP you will get and how Holding Systems and the Level of the system influence the amount of LP you get. Is exactly the same as it is today.

    The difference is that the shop Prices Change depending on the Medal/Rank Level you are significantly.
    This way you would have as a CCP developer one easy way to redesign the whole FW without redoing the whole Thing.



    So if you think i have still not get the whole idea please try to clarify this for me a bit more detailed with examples.
    Sorry for that but maybee i am getting old :-)




    Shop Price shoud stay the same,no change in there.Rank would afect amount of benefit you get from tier level.
    Basicli guy whith no rank run a plex and he get minimum amount of Lps cose even being at tier 5 war zone controle he will not get any bonus payment cose low rank.A player whith max rank run plex and get full benefits of tier 5 lp payment.So farming alt that dont parcticipate in activ fighting over war zone control get no benefit of war zone upgrades in terms of lps.

    Bezerker did put down his own idea abouth lp store and rank but i dont agre whith that and was not part of original idea.We dont nead even more stuff pull out from lp store and put on market,so no discount as a option.

    My youtube chanell: http://www.youtube.com/user/EveOnlineGameplay

    Bezerk'ah Vulkan
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #26 - 2013-01-07 18:27:46 UTC
    Also it would be very important to figure HOW this would work for the loosing side...my ruff idea ( not based on any sort of calculation) was that a high ranked pvp player would get more benefits even at tier 1 then a farmer with no pvp rank at tier 5!

    We have to make this attractive to everyone that wants to join FW for the pvp. Even if they're going to be part of the loosing side.

    The idea should be keep farmers out, but keep this interesting to any want that wants to learn pvp and be able to maintain this life style exclusively from being a part of FW

    ( not all can keep blowing ships, because they have 3 alts living in a WH...some of us want to keep playing eve online very badly, but can't afford to LIVE in eve online )
    Bezerk'ah Vulkan
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #27 - 2013-01-07 18:47:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Bezerk'ah Vulkan
    praznimrak wrote:
    Bezerker did put down his own idea abouth lp store and rank but i dont agre whith that and was not part of original idea.We dont nead even more stuff pull out from lp store and put on market,so no discount as a option.


    That might have been a bad idea Praz...but that is the part that we need to figure it out...how to do it.

    You have talked about the PVP rank benefits over the tiers right? Like: high rank pvp = 100% benefits from the tier - Low rank pvp = 0% benefits from tier correct?

    So if the tiers maintain the same benefits they have now, or similar ( which they must have...so there IS a reason to fight for the warzone ) ( to put this an example let's say that tier 5 means 100 and tier 1 means 0 ) we will have something like this:

    High Rank + tier 5 = 100% benefits of 100
    High Rank + tier 1 = 100% benefits of 0

    Low Rank + tier 5 = 0% benefits of 100
    Low Rank + tier 1 = 0% benefits of 0

    This means that a Farmer at Tier 5 would be better rewarded than the High ranked pvper at tier 1. I don't think this is what we want...we NEED to keep FW attractive to everyone that wants to come and fight, learn pvp, also we dont want to make FW a thing where it only makes sense to join the winning side. Obviously the winning side will have better rewards BUT as the profit will be tied to how much you PVP who can actually benefit from being in the saide that are loosing or have least members...more to shoot and kill!
    Jame Jarl Retief
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #28 - 2013-01-07 19:06:11 UTC
    ShahFluffers wrote:
    How will this prevent people from making alts, putting them in the enemy militia, and killing them in insurable T1 ships to gain ranks?


    Same way all other MMOs address kill-trading? Automatic detection, plus player reports. Guilty parties get all of their accounts and assets permanently removed from the game. Ta-da!
    Bezerk'ah Vulkan
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #29 - 2013-01-07 19:10:18 UTC
    Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
    ShahFluffers wrote:
    How will this prevent people from making alts, putting them in the enemy militia, and killing them in insurable T1 ships to gain ranks?


    Same way all other MMOs address kill-trading? Automatic detection, plus player reports. Guilty parties get all of their accounts and assets permanently removed from the game. Ta-da!


    Like it was said before, the current system ingame should be enough to prevent this. If some one did this it wouldn't be called EXPLOIT but STUPIDLOIT.
    praznimrak
    Level Up
    #30 - 2013-01-07 20:42:21 UTC
    Bezerk'ah Vulkan wrote:
    praznimrak wrote:
    Bezerker did put down his own idea abouth lp store and rank but i dont agre whith that and was not part of original idea.We dont nead even more stuff pull out from lp store and put on market,so no discount as a option.


    That might have been a bad idea Praz...but that is the part that we need to figure it out...how to do it.

    You have talked about the PVP rank benefits over the tiers right? Like: high rank pvp = 100% benefits from the tier - Low rank pvp = 0% benefits from tier correct?

    So if the tiers maintain the same benefits they have now, or similar ( which they must have...so there IS a reason to fight for the warzone ) ( to put this an example let's say that tier 5 means 100 and tier 1 means 0 ) we will have something like this:

    High Rank + tier 5 = 100% benefits of 100
    High Rank + tier 1 = 100% benefits of 0

    Low Rank + tier 5 = 0% benefits of 100
    Low Rank + tier 1 = 0% benefits of 0

    This means that a Farmer at Tier 5 would be better rewarded than the High ranked pvper at tier 1. I don't think this is what we want...we NEED to keep FW attractive to everyone that wants to come and fight, learn pvp, also we dont want to make FW a thing where it only makes sense to join the winning side. Obviously the winning side will have better rewards BUT as the profit will be tied to how much you PVP who can actually benefit from being in the saide that are loosing or have least members...more to shoot and kill!


    You did get it well bez,and losing side shoud not get any kind of revard.But that sistem you did write down obviusli removes a ton of alts from wining side and that helps a lot losing side.We all see each day farming hord in plex that join wining side and acelerate war zone control by farming.If we implement this sistem farming alts are out,booth sides can fight equaly now.And if you did join Fw for what it was ment to be,for fighting,your rank will go up in no time.

    My youtube chanell: http://www.youtube.com/user/EveOnlineGameplay

    praznimrak
    Level Up
    #31 - 2013-01-07 22:03:13 UTC
    Back on top

    My youtube chanell: http://www.youtube.com/user/EveOnlineGameplay

    praznimrak
    Level Up
    #32 - 2013-01-08 13:55:23 UTC
    praznimrak wrote:
    Back on top

    back on top

    My youtube chanell: http://www.youtube.com/user/EveOnlineGameplay

    Checksum Error
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #33 - 2013-01-08 16:47:33 UTC
    That might have been a bad idea Praz...but that is the part that we need to figure it out...how to do it.

    You have talked about the PVP rank benefits over the tiers right? Like: high rank pvp = 100% benefits from the tier - Low rank pvp = 0% benefits from tier correct?

    So if the tiers maintain the same benefits they have now, or similar ( which they must have...so there IS a reason to fight for the warzone ) ( to put this an example let's say that tier 5 means 100 and tier 1 means 0 ) we will have something like this:

    High Rank + tier 5 = 100% benefits of 100
    High Rank + tier 1 = 100% benefits of 0

    Low Rank + tier 5 = 0% benefits of 100
    Low Rank + tier 1 = 0% benefits of 0

    This means that a Farmer at Tier 5 would be better rewarded than the High ranked pvper at tier 1. I don't think this is what we want...we NEED to keep FW attractive to everyone that wants to come and fight, learn pvp, also we dont want to make FW a thing where it only makes sense to join the winning side. Obviously the winning side will have better rewards BUT as the profit will be tied to how much you PVP who can actually benefit from being in the saide that are loosing or have least members...more to shoot and kill!


    I still Think Praz that the easy way would be to adjust LP shop priceing based on your Medal Level.
    """"""No,like this tier zone control will be uslles"""""""
    This way the zonecontrol will stay and will be also not obsolete. The LP you will get is still the same way as today based on the Plex you made and the Level you have for your faction etc.

    Low Rank=High Price
    High Rank= Low Price in LP store will do the math

    Regards
    Checksum

    Checksum Error
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #34 - 2013-01-09 16:27:08 UTC
    Back to top otherwise it got lost
    praznimrak
    Level Up
    #35 - 2013-01-11 19:10:56 UTC
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    My youtube chanell: http://www.youtube.com/user/EveOnlineGameplay

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    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #36 - 2013-01-19 12:27:42 UTC
    All of you find Faction warfare stay at is it today and all is fine at it is?
    I asking this becouse i cant see any more participation from the community.
    So naturally i would think there are only some tears and thats fine.
    Regard
    Checksum
    Malcorian Vandsteidt
    Alpha Trades
    Solyaris Chtonium
    #37 - 2013-01-19 14:39:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcorian Vandsteidt
    Bezerk'ah Vulkan wrote:
    Easy! If you are not familiar with the new system that CCP implemented, i will explain it to you.

    Now you have a system that calculates the market value of the ship, insurance, items fitted, cargo, and on top of that what droped...that is how you now will recieve LPs for kills, or % of the bounty of a pilot which you have exploded his ship.

    If this system didn't exist, the exploitation would have already started when they introduced LP for kills in FW.

    Point is that for you to actually level up the new ranks proposed in this idea, by killing alts you would have to actually destroy bilions of ISK in ships and fits in order to get the ranks. And this would be a lot of ISK lost JUST to get the ranks, because the rank itself wont give you any isk at all, you would still have to do the plexing/mission to get the LPs to be able to take advantage of the pvp ranks in the LP store.


    And for bounties that's an effective system, because bounties are not respendable LP which gives you access to special Items, However.

    Being someone who makes billions of ISK a Month I would have no issue dumping a few bill into FW toss away ships to gain ranks, so I could get the LP stuff cheaper if that was my goal....

    Most of the Carebears / Non pvpers your talking about make more then you do. A lot more. Billions of Isk is Chump change to Industrialists. (And to most PvEers). If I pump my Indy Character into full gear, I could make in excess of 50 billion per month. On "ONE" character. Granted he has 75 Million SP in science and Industry, but a Farmer could simply buy one of those off the Bizzar and do the exact same stuff that I do.

    So no this system does not fix FW at all, just makes it more of a hassle for Farmers to get ranks because it involves LP points rather then just ISK.

    Industrialists think of Long term Investments, Yea it may cost Billions now (And I realize to a PvPer thats a shitload of ISK), but latter once they have the ranks they will make up for it in spades. So while yes it looks good in the short run, in the long term it fails horribly.
    Malcorian Vandsteidt
    Alpha Trades
    Solyaris Chtonium
    #38 - 2013-01-19 14:58:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcorian Vandsteidt
    The real problem is that many of CCP fixes while good for one area of the game should never be applied to others, Such as the example I gave above about the Bounty system vs FW.

    The other issue is that CCP generally looks to the short term (Rather then the long term) for fixes, it's why they have to continually re balance everything multiple times a year.

    They need to higher impartial players (Players who are not biased toward Industry or PvP and do both regularly) to help suggest to them fixes for things which work in the long term, rather then the short term which create long term issues later on.


    Also, and this is just a Fact of EvE:

    CCP will never "really" nerf anything which deals with PVE or Industry for 2 reasons:

    * CCP is out to make money, and the vast majority of their Subs are PvE / Indy players.
    * Eve is about 80% - 90% Industry Based. Nerfing/buffing anything dealing with this causes severe and sometimes fatal economic outcomes in the game world for entire markets. It is why they generally add stuff and change things occasionally, but never really buff or nerf anything dealing with it.
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