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T2 BPCs Price
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Leopold Jakuard
State Of Unrest
#1 - 2013-01-04 08:42:48 UTC
In the last couple of weeks I've been buying t2 BPCs off the market. Was wondering how you guys price them, as they are rather rare and sometimes what is on sale is just overpriced ( ie. profits = sell price - mats < cost of 1 run ). For eg. we got a t2 mod, that costs 300k in mats at -4 ME and sells for 800k. The profit you make, before the cost of the BPC is 500k (ok it's very simple but you get the idea). What would be in your opinion a reasonable price? Do not consider the price of the mats to make the BPC as I just buy it off the market.

It may be in the wrong section.
Philip Starck
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2013-01-04 09:05:01 UTC
That depends on the price of the cores and other items needed to invent it, and how high chance you have. It´s a pretty high cost if you crunch the numbers. So, i can´t give you a number. It has very little to do with how much you earn on it, atleast for me.
leoplusma
Delfus Inc.
#3 - 2013-01-04 09:27:31 UTC
t2 manufacturing is not as profitable as it should.
reasons:
wicked pricing on t2 bpc, moon materials not available
for harvesting in highsec (so the prices are higher than
it should be for the effort been made) and ofc may we not forget that
those who do own the t2 BPO have always a HUGE advantage.

anyhow, if you need t2 bpc i will be more than happy
to support you. convo me in game or send me an evemail,
which t2 bpc you need and i will send you my lowest possible prices.

(unfortunately) i have spent very much on my training in inventing.
i have regret that, to be honest, because the luck factor really pisses
me off at some points.

leo
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#4 - 2013-01-04 10:45:25 UTC
It's probably because most people who invent also do the manufacturing themselves.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Zifrian
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-01-04 13:05:16 UTC
I use the program in my sig. Just make sure to put in pos copy costs then enter the number of runs for the blueprint and the invention cost will be if you invented it yourself. Or you can ignore invention costs and enter the BPC cost and total runs to see if its profitable to make after buying.

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Iogrim
Matterhorn.
#6 - 2013-01-04 13:17:29 UTC
leoplusma wrote:
t2 manufacturing is not as profitable as it should.
reasons:
wicked pricing on t2 bpc, moon materials not available
for harvesting in highsec (so the prices are higher than
it should be for the effort been made) and ofc may we not forget that
those who do own the t2 BPO have always a HUGE advantage.

anyhow, if you need t2 bpc i will be more than happy
to support you. convo me in game or send me an evemail,
which t2 bpc you need and i will send you my lowest possible prices.

(unfortunately) i have spent very much on my training in inventing.
i have regret that, to be honest, because the luck factor really pisses
me off at some points.

leo


T2 manufacturing is fine. If you can't figure out how to make good profit out of it, you should not do it at all.
Backfyre
Hohmann Transfer
#7 - 2013-01-04 14:35:51 UTC
Leopold Jakuard wrote:
What would be in your opinion a reasonable price? Do not consider the price of the mats to make the BPC as I just buy it off the market.

But that is exactly how one determines the cost of a T2 BPC. For example, here is how I might cost a (-4 ML) 1-run mackinaw BPC:

For each invention attempt: (assuming some cost and skill numbers)

1M - 1-run T1 BPC (that 1.5b BPO investment is not "free")
0.64M for 8x Gallente starship datacores (80k each)
1.60M for 8x Mechanical engineering datacores (200k each)
0.5M - "other" costs (data interface; lab slot; etc)

3.74M per BPC / 0.28 chance of invention = 13.5M cost to me x 1.2 = 16.5M target sale price

For a -1 ML BPC, add in 6M to each invention cost for the decryptor. For multi-run ship BPCs, in addition to decryptor cost I would bump the T1 BPC cost because it would be a max run BPC, which can take a few days.

The profit margin for most T2 module BPCs is likely too low for anybody to bother selling them on contract. You are best off making a custom arrangement with somebody or training to make them yourself.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#8 - 2013-01-04 14:54:16 UTC
I only invent the t2 bpc if the ship is worth selling. Since I've done all the work to account for material cost and market price of the finished product, it would be silly for me to put that BPC up for someone else to buy and build, where they would have to duplicate the work I'd already done to decide if its profitable for them. If the t2 BPC market was robust enough, then i wouldn't need to consider ship price and material cost, I would just look at the BPC value and invention cost. However, having a strong market for t2 BPCs between the invention and manufacture stage is kind of pointless, because t2 BPCs can only be used for a single purpose. That's why the contract t2 BPC market is rather small, since its either small scale inventors that don't have the hauling capacity or capital for the production stage, or other non-industrialists that get their hands on t2 bpcs by various means and are looking to liquidate them for any cash possible.

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Never forget.
Toku Jiang
Jiang Laboratories and Discovery
#9 - 2013-01-04 15:07:24 UTC
Backfyre wrote:
Leopold Jakuard wrote:
What would be in your opinion a reasonable price? Do not consider the price of the mats to make the BPC as I just buy it off the market.

But that is exactly how one determines the cost of a T2 BPC. For example, here is how I might cost a (-4 ML) 1-run mackinaw BPC:

For each invention attempt: (assuming some cost and skill numbers)

1M - 1-run T1 BPC (that 1.5b BPO investment is not "free")
0.64M for 8x Gallente starship datacores (80k each)
1.60M for 8x Mechanical engineering datacores (200k each)
0.5M - "other" costs (data interface; lab slot; etc)

3.74M per BPC / 0.28 chance of invention = 13.5M cost to me x 1.2 = 16.5M target sale price

For a -1 ML BPC, add in 6M to each invention cost for the decryptor. For multi-run ship BPCs, in addition to decryptor cost I would bump the T1 BPC cost because it would be a max run BPC, which can take a few days.

The profit margin for most T2 module BPCs is likely too low for anybody to bother selling them on contract. You are best off making a custom arrangement with somebody or training to make them yourself.



You really need to start shopping around for mech engineering cores if your paying 200k each.
leoplusma
Delfus Inc.
#10 - 2013-01-04 16:20:58 UTC
Iogrim wrote:
leoplusma wrote:
t2 manufacturing is not as profitable as it should.
reasons:
wicked pricing on t2 bpc, moon materials not available
for harvesting in highsec (so the prices are higher than
it should be for the effort been made) and ofc may we not forget that
those who do own the t2 BPO have always a HUGE advantage.

anyhow, if you need t2 bpc i will be more than happy
to support you. convo me in game or send me an evemail,
which t2 bpc you need and i will send you my lowest possible prices.

(unfortunately) i have spent very much on my training in inventing.
i have regret that, to be honest, because the luck factor really pisses
me off at some points.

leo


T2 manufacturing is fine. If you can't figure out how to make good profit out of it, you should not do it at all.


lol you cant insult me dont even bother

if you dont have real access to moon materials
most t2 items dont even worth starting inventing.
the prices on the market are so fracking low.
this doesnt mean you can always find something
profitable. still, imho, i have stopped t2 manufacturing
simply because i make more isk from t1 items
and i dont **** off with my bad luck in inventions.

leo
Emma Royd
Maddled Gommerils
#11 - 2013-01-04 17:56:01 UTC
I've fairly recently started down the invention route, and aim to keep nice and low-key

I'm not bothered about ships at the moment, and I'm not bothered about huge profits, as long as I don't lose isk I'm happy.

Sure I've made mistakes, invented the wrong things a few times and have now got several T2 BPC's that aren't worth building off, but they stay in a can and I keep checking the figures once in a while to see if they become profitable, if not then I'll leave them gathering dust.

I don't play eve to make shedloads of internetspacebucks, I play eve to enjoy myself, I don't need to plex my accounts so as long as I keep income trickling in to pay for the new skillbooks, then it's groovy.

I'm not saying that aiming for huge profits is wrong, but it does tend to taint your game play and you're more likely to get peed off if you get a 10% sucess rate out of 10 instead of 50% out of 10, but meh random is random.
Leopold Jakuard
State Of Unrest
#12 - 2013-01-04 18:06:38 UTC
I really insist on ignoring the cost to make the BPC as there is, IMO, a real market for T2 BPCs. Just gonna take an example, as it seems to be what's the most popular. T2 heavy missiles BPCs are often found on contracts @ 2m per 10 runs, 200k per run. If you check quickly on fuzz's website you can see it costs 1,4m to make and sells for 2,3m. If you add the 200k, you still make 700k in profit, which is very good considering you can find a ton of these BPCs on the market. The prices are probably not 100% accurate, but I doubt they are far off (build at buy cost and sell at sell price).

@ Steve Ronuken your website has a little annoying bug where you can't have the 8 regular minerals at buy price. In the little window "Prices", if you click to switch to buy price on trit, pye, mex, iso,.... megacyte, it will bug and say NaN. Which will then corrupt the whole thing. Also, you can't re-click back to sell. I use chrome.
Iogrim
Matterhorn.
#13 - 2013-01-04 18:52:53 UTC
leoplusma wrote:

lol you cant insult me dont even bother

if you dont have real access to moon materials
most t2 items dont even worth starting inventing.
the prices on the market are so fracking low.
this doesnt mean you can always find something
profitable. still, imho, i have stopped t2 manufacturing
simply because i make more isk from t1 items
and i dont **** off with my bad luck in inventions.

leo


Not trying to insult you. Just saying that you are talking nonsense.

There is plenty of profits both in T2 items and T2 ships. And actually *most* T2 stuff is worth producing, even if you buy T2 materials from Jita sell orders.

E.g. producing Large Shield Extender II in POS makes you 2.2 bil per month using 10 slots. DCU II - 1.2bil. That's extremely high turnover items and such income is pretty decent for starting small-scale manufacturer.
leoplusma
Delfus Inc.
#14 - 2013-01-04 19:57:38 UTC
Iogrim wrote:

Not trying to insult you. Just saying that you are talking nonsense.

There is plenty of profits both in T2 items and T2 ships. And actually *most* T2 stuff is worth producing, even if you buy T2 materials from Jita sell orders.

E.g. producing Large Shield Extender II in POS makes you 2.2 bil per month using 10 slots. DCU II - 1.2bil. That's extremely high turnover items and such income is pretty decent for starting small-scale manufacturer.



i am a lady that admits her mistakes.
so, i opened my t2 spreads only to realise
i need to return back to t2 manufacturing, after all.

i guess my big mistake was that i forgot market changes
all the time. so my view was some months old and certainly
of no use in this thread. sry.

leo
Nad'x Hapax
Hapaxa
#15 - 2013-01-06 22:55:33 UTC
leoplusma wrote:
Iogrim wrote:

Not trying to insult you. Just saying that you are talking nonsense.

There is plenty of profits both in T2 items and T2 ships. And actually *most* T2 stuff is worth producing, even if you buy T2 materials from Jita sell orders.

E.g. producing Large Shield Extender II in POS makes you 2.2 bil per month using 10 slots. DCU II - 1.2bil. That's extremely high turnover items and such income is pretty decent for starting small-scale manufacturer.



i am a lady that admits her mistakes.
so, i opened my t2 spreads only to realise
i need to return back to t2 manufacturing, after all.

i guess my big mistake was that i forgot market changes
all the time. so my view was some months old and certainly
of no use in this thread. sry.

leo



Yes that's an accurate picture of T2 manufacturing. U can actually make far more than 100mil a day with a 10-slot alt just by making some modules and frigs. Problem with T2 manufacturing is its high maintenance and finding ways to counteract that.
Crexa
Ion Industrials
#16 - 2013-01-07 00:07:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Crexa
I used to invent. Used to.

Sorry for sounding trollish. But the whole process is so convoluted it became unbearable.

To a minor degree the ships I want to make, T2 industrials and exhumers are monopolized by he whomever holds the most Tech moons or a long lost lottery derived T2 BPO. If not monopolized, certainly affected by.

"F=ma, so obviously they're putting mouths against arses to produce a force." "...its breakfast time and i am very hungry. may i have some of your paint chips?"
Annunaki soldier
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-01-07 00:27:55 UTC
Crexa wrote:
I used to invent. Used to.

Sorry for sounding trollish. But the whole process is so convoluted it became unbearable.

To a minor degree the ships I want to make, T2 industrials and exhumers are monopolized by he whomever holds the most Tech moons or a long lost lottery derived T2 BPO. If not monopolized, certainly affected by.


that. T2 production only worth in certain cases . When you buy the bpc that will grand you profit , or start inventing something that dont have t2 bpo. Anythng that has people with t2 they can monopolize the market by simply lowering their profits until it will make you leave.

Anything that use moon goo that the market is already monopolized to a big degree also dont worth it (we are talking about high sec people and not 0.0 that might get em cheaper) .

At the end myself involving with the industry part of the game with my alts i learned that you can have much more profits from t1 and the t2 production really is not that big and doesnt come hussle free as well. (invention is ...)

Ride hard, live with passion 
Mikhael Taron
Four Winds Industry
#18 - 2013-01-07 06:06:19 UTC
Iogrim wrote:

E.g. producing Large Shield Extender II in POS makes you 2.2 bil per month using 10 slots. DCU II - 1.2bil. That's extremely high turnover items and such income is pretty decent for starting small-scale manufacturer.



I'd like you to define starting small-scale manufacturer, as I find it hard to imagine one as I define it having a POS. What are the numbers for someone using a hisec station?

You can fool some of the people all of the time. You can fool all of the people some of the time. You can make a fool out of yourself anytime.
Nad'x Hapax
Hapaxa
#19 - 2013-01-07 08:26:30 UTC
Mikhael Taron wrote:
Iogrim wrote:

E.g. producing Large Shield Extender II in POS makes you 2.2 bil per month using 10 slots. DCU II - 1.2bil. That's extremely high turnover items and such income is pretty decent for starting small-scale manufacturer.



I'd like you to define starting small-scale manufacturer, as I find it hard to imagine one as I define it having a POS. What are the numbers for someone using a hisec station?



the good highsec station numbers would be something like that actually. Thing is it takes alot of your time. Every other day market researsh, hauling bpcs to free invention slots at stations (there are several of those, with lots of free sloot in a 10 jump radius of Jita). Setting up MF slots twice a day and constantly watching the market when orders are out.

2.2 bil per month WITHOUT a POS is indeed possible. Did it for some time myself but the high maintenance eventually got to me.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#20 - 2013-01-07 10:30:50 UTC
Manafacturing in a POS does a few things:

1: Increases your throughput by 33%. (Assuming you can keep the slots active. Items with a 10 hour run make this hard, unless you have a lot of time to dedicate to the game. I don't log onto eve in the morning, most days) (This is because of the 0.75 modifier on production time)
2: Give you a fixed manufacturing/inventing/researching cost.
3: Guaranteed slots.
4: A hernia, shifting stuff between arrays. (Being able to start multiple jobs at the same time is the main wish from manufacturers. I'd say the next is a shared resource pool in POS arrays)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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