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Cov-ops Frigates - need a rethink?
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Anyura
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-01-06 15:03:21 UTC
Hey folks,

Before we begin, I invite you to go to your fridges and find a rather nice piece of cheese, because this is going to be a whine thread. The whining is about the ineffectiveness of cov-ops frigs as a means of exploration. Yes, a cov-ops frig can scan down that juicy low-sec radar site like a dream but then you warp to the site and find yourself drowning in rat spawns. Irritatingly, even if you do manage to unlock a can while under fire in an untanked frigate, it refuses to cough up the shinies while the rats are there.

Now, before you all scream "buy a tengu", I feel there should be some form of ship that allows you to do low sec sites like that without needing to cough 1 billion ISK. Swapping ships isn't really an option either, if you're having to compete with a dozen other probe-launching swine in the same system.

I guess what I am saying is - would it really be that imbalanced if cov-op frigs had a couple of extra high slots to fit some sort of weapons to deal with basic rat spawns?

Til then, I guess I'll just have to train for a Sacrilige and then gimp the fit with codebreakers, scan probes and salvagers. =/
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-01-06 15:08:02 UTC
Recon
Kasutra
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#3 - 2013-01-06 15:25:22 UTC
The Covops frigs are specialized scanning ships. They are very good at the very narrow role of snooping around, which is how T2 ships are supposed to function.

Meanwhile, the T3s are the hulls that were designed to be flexible enough to pull off this sort of thing. Sounds to me a bit like you're asking for a T2 that acts like a T3 except... it's supposed to cost less? =/
Ginger Barbarella
#4 - 2013-01-06 15:29:53 UTC
Anyura wrote:
Hey folks,

Before we begin, I invite you to go to your fridges and find a rather nice piece of cheese, because this is going to be a whine thread. The whining is about the ineffectiveness of cov-ops frigs as a means of exploration. Yes, a cov-ops frig can scan down that juicy low-sec radar site like a dream but then you warp to the site and find yourself drowning in rat spawns. Irritatingly, even if you do manage to unlock a can while under fire in an untanked frigate, it refuses to cough up the shinies while the rats are there.

Now, before you all scream "buy a tengu", I feel there should be some form of ship that allows you to do low sec sites like that without needing to cough 1 billion ISK. Swapping ships isn't really an option either, if you're having to compete with a dozen other probe-launching swine in the same system.

I guess what I am saying is - would it really be that imbalanced if cov-op frigs had a couple of extra high slots to fit some sort of weapons to deal with basic rat spawns?

Til then, I guess I'll just have to train for a Sacrilige and then gimp the fit with codebreakers, scan probes and salvagers. =/


Wow... just--- wow. Another well-thought-out thread. Awesome. Made my Sunday.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Anyura
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2013-01-06 16:12:39 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Anyura wrote:
Hey folks,

Before we begin, I invite you to go to your fridges and find a rather nice piece of cheese, because this is going to be a whine thread. The whining is about the ineffectiveness of cov-ops frigs as a means of exploration. Yes, a cov-ops frig can scan down that juicy low-sec radar site like a dream but then you warp to the site and find yourself drowning in rat spawns. Irritatingly, even if you do manage to unlock a can while under fire in an untanked frigate, it refuses to cough up the shinies while the rats are there.

Now, before you all scream "buy a tengu", I feel there should be some form of ship that allows you to do low sec sites like that without needing to cough 1 billion ISK. Swapping ships isn't really an option either, if you're having to compete with a dozen other probe-launching swine in the same system.

I guess what I am saying is - would it really be that imbalanced if cov-op frigs had a couple of extra high slots to fit some sort of weapons to deal with basic rat spawns?

Til then, I guess I'll just have to train for a Sacrilige and then gimp the fit with codebreakers, scan probes and salvagers. =/


Wow... just--- wow. Another well-thought-out thread. Awesome. Made my Sunday.



Happy to oblige o7


I'm not looking for something that can do all exploration and combat sites, like 3/10s, etc. I'm just after a small amount of firepower to deal with the handful of rats that spawn from radars and mag sites.

I'm also willing to entertain fits for an Amarr pilot to handle low sec sites (scanning + salv/hack/arch) in a T2 cruiser, if anyone has any suggestions. It's just T3 stuff is a little out of my price range. =)
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#6 - 2013-01-06 16:15:14 UTC
You don't need that scanning bonus for exploration. 1B ISK is not that a scary number. You shouldn't be doing exploration in a system with a bunch of other explorers. You can explore just fine in T1 ships. I think that should have addressed all your issues.
Mister Tuggles
Heretic Army
Sedition.
#7 - 2013-01-06 16:30:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Mister Tuggles
I think the problem lies more with the fact that we don't have a dedicated exploration ship (other than some t3's) as opposed to the cov-ops being "bad".

The cov-ops is a spectacular ship. One of my favorite to be honest. Want to **** off a bunch of nullbears? Set up a cov-ops alt in their farming system, watch hilarity ensue.

We really do need a dedicated "exploration" ship though. One that can can probe, hack, analyze, and has at least some combat ability to clear a site. It will never happen though as CCP loves us dumbasses who run multiple accounts for these types of things :-)
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#8 - 2013-01-06 17:40:49 UTC
Last I checked, Ishtar was considered one of the best non T3 exploration ships in game. Has that change?

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-01-06 18:05:10 UTC
If you fly amarr you already have access to a great covert ops exploration platform for radars and mags. The Pilgrim.
Ferdinand Camine
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-01-06 18:13:54 UTC
The pilgrim does a fantastic job exploring in low sec; I use it in blood space to clear out Radars, Mags, Combat Ladar and anything up to DED 4/10. If it gets too battleship-ey, they take too long, increasing the risk of being probed down.

My fit is something like this:

Lows:
Medium Armor Rep II
2x Rat Specific Hardener II
2x Drone Damage Amplifier II


Mids:
10mn MWD II
Analyzer I
Codebreaker I
Large Cap Battery II
Drone navigation Computer II

Highs:
CovOps Cloak II
Salvager I
Sisters Core Probe Launcher
Meta 4 Medium Armor Repairer

Rigs:

2x Medium Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I

5x Hammerhead II
5x Hobgoblin II


You can swap a DDA for an ENAM or a Nano for increased survivability, but doing these types of sites you wont get hit much anyways (and clearing them quickly is a great advantage). Likewise, you can swap the Drone Navigation Computer for an AB to further mitigate damage, but I've found that it isn't really necessary. Micromanage your drones with regards to the new AI (takes some getting used to), and use the remote Rep to fix them if needed.


There you go! As close to a dedicated exploration ship you'll get, and at the fraction of the cost of a T3.
Anyura
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2013-01-06 18:27:10 UTC
<3 - Thank you

Just need a few more days to finish Amarr Cruiser V and then I'll give it a whirl.
Ferdinand Camine
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-01-06 18:47:06 UTC
Anyura wrote:
<3 - Thank you

Just need a few more days to finish Amarr Cruiser V and then I'll give it a whirl.



No problem. For the record; I've been using my Legion as a similar boat, but actually went BACK to the Pilgrim. Sure, the Legion can solo 6/10 and Annex etc which can pay out EXTREMELY well, but I enjoy being able to clear every tiny site and not be stressed out of my mind over losing a 1 bil ship.

Also, if you want to, you could probably pimp out the Pilgrim for clearing the tougher combat sites too - possibly shield tank to increase DPS through drones? I haven't tried, but I'll experiment with this when I get home.

PS: If you get Astrometric Rangefinding to V you can drop a scanning rig for something else and still be able to scan everything down with ease. I highly recommend a cheap 6% scanning implant too.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#13 - 2013-01-06 19:22:06 UTC
Why can't you fly an Ishtar with cloak and probe?

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-01-06 19:42:03 UTC
covops are NOT combat ships. deal with it.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

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Taoist Dragon
School of Applied Knowledge
#15 - 2013-01-06 21:50:45 UTC
Use the T1 probe frigs they get bonii (?) to scanning, hacking all that stuff and can field multiple drones to clear the radar/mags. Unless they've increased the rats since I last on explo (almost a year ago) then the new frigs are fine for what you want. TBH an arbitrator is fine for what you want no need to go pilgrim....but pilgrim rocks for that purpose as well.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#16 - 2013-01-07 01:11:42 UTC
IMO covert recons should get a 25% scan probe strength added to their role bonus. Or would that be OP?

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Ares Desideratus
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2013-01-07 01:51:55 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:
bonii (?)

Just do bonusesX
Flakey Foont
#18 - 2013-01-07 02:07:43 UTC
Drake.
Dautrin Maize
Peirmont Industries
#19 - 2013-01-07 10:37:46 UTC
I was a little disconcerted when I went from my Probe to a Cheetah, only to realize that the Cheetah has no drone bay. For Mag/Radar sites in hi-sec, the Probe is perfect while carrying 3 light drones. But the Cheetah, with a Salvager, Cloak, and Probe Launcher in the highs, and no drones...is fairly useless other than scanning down sites that you will need to switch ships before you can deal with them (especially in low sec as the OP stated).

Maybe max out the skills, get some implants, and use a Panther! Or not.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#20 - 2013-01-07 11:05:52 UTC
T1 scanning frigs are made for exploration, covert ops are made for scouting.

.
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