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Drones Aggro solution ! (AI System resolved)
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Myruanda Spacewalker
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-01-06 21:50:25 UTC
What if instead of Changing NPC AI to target drones. They would just remove the aggression factor on drones so you have to activate them manually.This would remove the (sit and wait). In order to make all players earn their isk with hard work. Make drones effective again. I agree with the NPC Switching target. I disagree to the drones being targeted.

( Are the ships not balanced between weapons and drones ? )

If yes Then let them be used as such.

I hope this gets to CCP.
Rengerel en Distel
#2 - 2013-01-06 21:54:11 UTC
The devs don't really read these forums. There's a post in the test server forum for feedback. If npcs never switched to drones, there are ships that would never even equip a weapon, and would have an uber permatank. The AI is a lot better than it was at release, and it mostly playable now.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
CausticS0da
Shrubbery Acquisitions
Blohm and Voss Shipyards Alliance
#3 - 2013-01-06 23:18:31 UTC
There is no problem with drones in l4 missions. Even I got sucked into the hype and was worried about plexes post retri but after testing l4 in drone boats you have to be a moron to lose drones.

Why are people still posting these threads?
Akuma Tsukai
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-01-06 23:37:03 UTC
Cause morons like you do not understand that PVE isnt limited to lvl 4 missions (which simply became frustrating). Also this change brings major disbalance in PVE both ship and region wise. But ofc you need a lvl 1 reading and lvl 1 brain presence skills to understand that.
Eclipse323
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2013-01-07 00:12:57 UTC
Myruanda Spacewalker wrote:
What if instead of Changing NPC AI to target drones. They would just remove the aggression factor on drones so you have to activate them manually.This would remove the (sit and wait). In order to make all players earn their isk with hard work. Make drones effective again. I agree with the NPC Switching target. I disagree to the drones being targeted.

( Are the ships not balanced between weapons and drones ? )

If yes Then let them be used as such.

I hope this gets to CCP.


I agree 100%, the problem people had wasn't with drones themselves, it was the afkers just making money for no real work. Also to all the people who whine about people overtanking in drone boats, it balances out, they can't put out the same DPS as those who use missiles or turrets and make money slower.
Myruanda Spacewalker
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-01-07 01:06:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Myruanda Spacewalker
Yes, My thoughts are you you Eclipse323. I believe the problem were AFKers and the fact that you could use a unique tank and an ultimate DPS to clear it all in a blitz second were as now with the changing targets all have to tank fit making this a better challenged as DEV said as reason of that change.

Drones should be treated as weapons.
( What they should change is removing the auto aggro on drones, keep the changing target and stop the drones form getting shot by NPC.)
Flakey Foont
#7 - 2013-01-07 01:07:21 UTC
CausticS0da wrote:
There is no problem with drones in l4 missions. Even I got sucked into the hype and was worried about plexes post retri but after testing l4 in drone boats you have to be a moron to lose drones.

Why are people still posting these threads?



QFT
Scien Inkunen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-01-07 01:28:59 UTC
Far as I experinced so far, if you take the FULL aggro, your drones are safe.

It means that, you will be tanking (taking damage) and drone do the shooting (deal damage).

It's not advisable to have drones and other type of damage (missiles, guns...) - you can't achive good result with mixed damage (everyone says - do not mix guns).

So, stick with your drones, get the highest skills for them and tank.

Read the "Fart file" and you will understand the meaning of life !
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#9 - 2013-01-07 02:41:28 UTC
Akuma Tsukai wrote:
Cause morons like you do not understand that PVE isnt limited to lvl 4 missions (which simply became frustrating). Also this change brings major disbalance in PVE both ship and region wise. But ofc you need a lvl 1 reading and lvl 1 brain presence skills to understand that.


so explain this disbalance to lvl1 moron's like myself????
Myruanda Spacewalker
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-01-07 04:42:55 UTC
Scien Inkunen wrote:
Far as I experienced so far, if you take the FULL aggro, your drones are safe.

It means that, you will be tanking (taking damage) and drone do the shooting (deal damage).

It's not advisable to have drones and other type of damage (missiles, guns...) - you can't achive good result with mixed damage (everyone says - do not mix guns).

So, stick with your drones, get the highest skills for them and tank.


Well you are wrong some NPC will switch targets straight up and blow up your drones even if your tanking the complete room, I believe all the elite frigates/Cruisers for Smalls drones.

I am aware that using drones can be done, Meaning Smalls drone (with exceptions) and to a degree Sentry drones. Try using large drones in a mission lvl 4 and get back to me. But that is not my point.

My thread is about Changing the drone Auto attack (Disabled) and getting the drones off the hook as targets.

I believe this would serve DEV plan and Make the drones effective.

And PLZ no insults in my thread
Tazarak theDeceiver
United Mining and Hauling Inc
The Initiative.
#11 - 2013-01-07 04:50:46 UTC
Just give every ship a 500 m3 drone bay. I'll just let the little bastards die rather than micro manage them. What annoys the hell out of me is trying to get to a station to repair in nullsec... or have to log in some ghetto logi alt and play "guess which drones are in armour".
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#12 - 2013-01-07 05:18:42 UTC
Myruanda Spacewalker wrote:


Well you are wrong some NPC will switch targets straight up and blow up your drones even if your tanking the complete room, I believe all the elite frigates/Cruisers for Smalls drones.


Each enemy ship type has a spread of hates for different sig sizes. elite frigates appear to have particularly strong hate for small drone sig size. This does not help them at all at 50km, with a set of garde IIs on the field.

Quote:


I am aware that using drones can be done, Meaning Smalls drone (with exceptions) and to a degree Sentry drones. Try using large drones in a mission lvl 4 and get back to me. But that is not my point.



I use heavies from a blaster vexor and from a blaster navy thron. They are fine, because (a) anything that particularly hates them, also really hates cruisers and somewhat hates battleship sized ships, and (b) I am close enough to pick them up asap anyway, and (c) blaster ships appear to produce sufficient hate when facemelting at optimal and tracking properly to keep everything but an elite frigate occupied.

Quote:


My thread is about Changing the drone Auto attack (Disabled) and getting the drones off the hook as targets.

I believe this would serve DEV plan and Make the drones effective.

And PLZ no insults in my thread


CCP will never go back on this. Autonomous fire is an important feature of drones that is more important than drone aggro.
Ikshuki
Awoken Disintegration Fleet
#13 - 2013-01-07 06:24:19 UTC
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
The devs don't really read these forums. There's a post in the test server forum for feedback. If npcs never switched to drones, there are ships that would never even equip a weapon, and would have an uber permatank. The AI is a lot better than it was at release, and it mostly playable now.


Easy for someone to say that when they've already spent years perfecting their weapon skills and not thier drones skills, for those who actually uses drones as weapons this new drone AI is the same as removing the usefulness of all Gallente ships in any PvE roles, remember 67% of gallente ships are pure drone boats, might as well remove the Gallente race if ccp is going to kill drone boats, we all have our own styles of weapon choice to each of our own uniqueness
Ikshuki
Awoken Disintegration Fleet
#14 - 2013-01-07 06:28:31 UTC
Myruanda Spacewalker wrote:
What if instead of Changing NPC AI to target drones. They would just remove the aggression factor on drones so you have to activate them manually.This would remove the (sit and wait). In order to make all players earn their isk with hard work. Make drones effective again. I agree with the NPC Switching target. I disagree to the drones being targeted.

( Are the ships not balanced between weapons and drones ? )

If yes Then let them be used as such.

I hope this gets to CCP.



yeah i agree to this thread 100%, exactly what should've been done to begin with, ccp was drinking at the board meeting again on this one, this is a very rare ccp choice that was very bad, i think i'll just never mission again until they fix this and do exactly as you suggest
Sgt LoveDragon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-01-07 07:53:24 UTC
Cage Man wrote:
Akuma Tsukai wrote:
Cause morons like you do not understand that PVE isnt limited to lvl 4 missions (which simply became frustrating). Also this change brings major disbalance in PVE both ship and region wise. But ofc you need a lvl 1 reading and lvl 1 brain presence skills to understand that.


so explain this disbalance to lvl1 moron's like myself????



Check the other threads. You'll find ample explanation there. For myself i've gotten tired of explaining this 20 some times to everyone who has not looked around but decided to give their limited experience opinion anyway.
TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-01-07 08:20:41 UTC
Tazarak theDeceiver wrote:
or have to log in some ghetto logi alt and play "guess which drones are in armour".


Why not broadcast it as a target from the character that can see which are in armor?

or better yet... biomass

...

CausticS0da
Shrubbery Acquisitions
Blohm and Voss Shipyards Alliance
#17 - 2013-01-07 08:46:22 UTC  |  Edited by: CausticS0da
Myruanda Spacewalker wrote:
Scien Inkunen wrote:
Far as I experienced so far, if you take the FULL aggro, your drones are safe.

It means that, you will be tanking (taking damage) and drone do the shooting (deal damage).

It's not advisable to have drones and other type of damage (missiles, guns...) - you can't achive good result with mixed damage (everyone says - do not mix guns).

So, stick with your drones, get the highest skills for them and tank.


Well you are wrong some NPC will switch targets straight up and blow up your drones even if your tanking the complete room, I believe all the elite frigates/Cruisers for Smalls drones.

I am aware that using drones can be done, Meaning Smalls drone (with exceptions) and to a degree Sentry drones. Try using large drones in a mission lvl 4 and get back to me. But that is not my point.

My thread is about Changing the drone Auto attack (Disabled) and getting the drones off the hook as targets.

I believe this would serve DEV plan and Make the drones effective.

And PLZ no insults in my thread


I don't even bother to get ship aggro anymore. The fact that NPCs only target drones of relative size is pretty much a buff. Heavy drones will have problems in pve so... Stick to using them for pvp and use others for pve?
Mu-Shi Ai
Hosono House
#18 - 2013-01-07 08:56:39 UTC
Eclipse323 wrote:
[... it was the afkers just making money for no real work.


Myth alert!
CausticS0da
Shrubbery Acquisitions
Blohm and Voss Shipyards Alliance
#19 - 2013-01-07 09:12:46 UTC
Akuma Tsukai wrote:
Cause morons like you do not understand that PVE isnt limited to lvl 4 missions (which simply became frustrating). Also this change brings major disbalance in PVE both ship and region wise. But ofc you need a lvl 1 reading and lvl 1 brain presence skills to understand that.


So what other pve are you talking about? Not sleeper obviously, not l4s as you say... FW missions, plexes? There is no difference when it comes to drones.

This thread is about drones, not NPCs switching aggro to other ships which IS a problem for L5s and for people who fleet up for pve.

L4s haven't got any more frustrating - unless you think scooping and redeploying a drone once or twice per mission is frustrating.

Where is the 'major' disbalance you speak of? Explain yourself or link the thread. You saying you can't be bothered is because you are talking rubbish and have nothing to back up what you're saying.

DRONES ARE FINE IN LEVEL 4 MISSIONS. In fact, I'm tempted to use a domi now as a main mission boat as doing 1k dps (998) while sitting in one place with epic damage projection and tracking and being immune to EWAR seems to be pretty good to me.

Outside grade school you won't win any fans without trying to back up your statements. The only hint you gave us is that 'missions aren't all pve'.

Meanwhile you are spreading disinformation and making noobs panic.
CausticS0da
Shrubbery Acquisitions
Blohm and Voss Shipyards Alliance
#20 - 2013-01-07 09:31:48 UTC
Myruanda Spacewalker wrote:
Scien Inkunen wrote:
Far as I experienced so far, if you take the FULL aggro, your drones are safe.

It means that, you will be tanking (taking damage) and drone do the shooting (deal damage).

It's not advisable to have drones and other type of damage (missiles, guns...) - you can't achive good result with mixed damage (everyone says - do not mix guns).

So, stick with your drones, get the highest skills for them and tank.


Well you are wrong some NPC will switch targets straight up and blow up your drones even if your tanking the complete room, I believe all the elite frigates/Cruisers for Smalls drones.

I am aware that using drones can be done, Meaning Smalls drone (with exceptions) and to a degree Sentry drones. Try using large drones in a mission lvl 4 and get back to me. But that is not my point.

My thread is about Changing the drone Auto attack (Disabled) and getting the drones off the hook as targets.

I believe this would serve DEV plan and Make the drones effective.

And PLZ no insults in my thread



Removing auto attack from drones... There'll be even more tears about that than we have now. Once a room is under control I can still go afk with a drone boat with hammerheads or even sentries to an extent. In pvp drones are going to be assigned and/or targeted anyway but I'm sure this will be seen as a nerf to drones in pvp too.

This thread is about you wanting dumb AI while -at least to me- AI should be about mimicking humans' actions.

The drone panic WAS ONLY RELEVANT BEFORE THE PATCH THAT MADE NPCS ATTACK ONLY RELATIVE SIZED DRONES.
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