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Looking for new gaming computer
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J'as Salarkin
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#1 - 2013-01-05 19:32:09 UTC
So, my old laptop is slowly dying and I need a new one.

I am not aiming for a high end computer, but a decent one for sure.

I have gotten my eyes on the sager computer NP6350. link to computer

Its price is 999 dollars and its main specs are:

15.6" 1920x1080 display

Nvidia GeForce GTX 660M GPU with 2GB GDDR5 Video Memory

3rd Generation Intel® Core™ i5-3210M Processor ( 3MB L3 Cache, 2.50GHz)

8GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1600MHz

750GB 7200rpm SATA2 Hard Drive

My main questions are:

How good is this computer at handling newer games? I mainly play (when I have a working computer) EVE, minecraft and civ4, but would like to have to opportunity to try out FarCry3. Would this computer be able to handle farcry3 at decent settings? Checking the games requirements it seems it should, have anyone here played newer games on this laptop (I assume it will run EVE without any problem what-so-ever?

Is there any other computer that you could recommend in the same price range?

How helpful is the upgrade to the screen? And should I add the better thermal compound (my current laptop is having heating problems that even a new thermal compound could not help)?

Finally, is there a good reason to upgrade the processor to i7? Its only 70 dollars more...
J'as Salarkin
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#2 - 2013-01-05 23:29:20 UTC
Hoping not to turn this into a monologue, but I think I will go for the nicer screen, skip on the thermal paste (can do it myself in a few years time when the current one dries up), but I am not so sure about the cpu...

On sagers homepage one can choose a computer for 200 dollars more where one gets:

3rd Generation Intel® Core™ i7-3630QM Processor ( 6MB L3 Cache, 2.40GHz)
(instead of 3rd Generation Intel® Core™ i5-3210M Processor ( 3MB L3 Cache, 2.50GHz) )

and

Nvidia GeForce GTX 670MX GPU with 3GB GDDR5 Video Memory
(instead of Nvidia GeForce GTX 660M GPU with 2GB GDDR5 Video Memory )


Would you take the upgrade for 200? (Or would you recommend a totally different computer?)
Onyx Nyx
The Veldspar Protectorate
#3 - 2013-01-05 23:38:38 UTC
Do you have to have a laptop or is a desktop alternative to you?

I kill kittens, and puppies and bunnies. I maim toddlers and teens and then more.

  • Richard (http://www.lfgcomic.com/)
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#4 - 2013-01-06 00:19:19 UTC
Main Gear



There is no better place to shop for a computer. These people truly impressed me with mine, and they will build you whatever you are looking for. Cheap or expensive, you can customize anything.

[center]The EVE Gateway Blog[/center] [center]One Of EVE Online's Ultimate Resources[/center]
J'as Salarkin
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#5 - 2013-01-06 02:32:24 UTC
It has to be a laptop.

Thank your for the link to main gear. I compared their prices to the ones of sager and sager seemed around 100-200 dollars cheaper whatever configuration I chose.

I keep on coming back to my question if the cpu and especially the gpu should be upgraded over the np6350.

Is there anyone on this forum that could give me some insight into my little problem?

How much better would the following upgrade make my laptop?

i7-3630QM Processor ( 6MB L3 Cache, 2.40GHz)
(instead of i5-3210M Processor ( 3MB L3 Cache, 2.50GHz) )

and

Nvidia GeForce GTX 670MX GPU with 3GB GDDR5
(instead of Nvidia GeForce GTX 660M GPU with 2GB GDDR5)

As I stated above I will use it mainly for gaming. So far my most demanding game has been EVE, but with a new computer I would like to play some farcry3 and other equally demanding games.
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#6 - 2013-01-06 07:49:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
J'as Salarkin wrote:
How much better would the following upgrade make my laptop?
i7-3630QM Processor ( 6MB L3 Cache, 2.40GHz) - vs- i5-3210M Processor ( 3MB L3 Cache, 2.50GHz
and
Nvidia GeForce GTX 670MX GPU with 3GB GDDR5 -vs- Nvidia GeForce GTX 660M GPU with 2GB GDDR5)

As far as EVE is concerned, CPU matters more for large-scale engagements, since the overarching physics simulation engine runs (for the time being) exclusively on the CPU, and computing power required increases almost exponentially with added items on the grid, and in busy grids the CPU quickly becomes the primary bottleneck.
Meanwhile, in light load grids, the CPU is barely used, and the GPU is the primary bottleneck.

Other games have different CPU-vs-GPU dynamics.

CPU passmark scores
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_list.php
7677 vs 3819
***note: 4-core vs 2-core, difference of not much use for single-instance EVE (and only mildly relevant for two instances, but highly relevant for 3 or more instances)

GPU passmark scores
http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu_list.php
1856 vs 1613
***note: the video RAM difference will also mean somewhat better results for multiple EVE instances engaged in heavy variation for the "ship population" on grid than those suggested by the raw score, but since the CPU is the more likely bottleneck in that case, it's a wash

Again, other games have different CPU-vs-GPU dynamics, and the CPU might matter a lot more or a lot less (or more often), or maybe the GPU. It's all on a case-by-case basis.

Akita T evewiki profile | | | Build your own EVE-ready PC
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#7 - 2013-01-06 08:02:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
If I was to select my personal favourites, looking at the particular laptop, I would pick the following customization options IN ORDER OF IMPORTANCE FOR ME PERSONALLY:
- Matte Finished Surface (+$75.00) -> pretty important as far as eye comfort goes, and in time, NOT getting it would be the thing you regret most if it was available in the first place
- primary drive: 128GB Crucial M4 Series SATA3 Solid State Disk Drive (+$70.00) -> once you go SSD, you seldom ever want to go back (and that's the most reasonable one price/performance wise, but the 100$ intel would be my second choice here);
- re-add secondary drive, 750GB 7200rpm SATA2 Secondary Hard Disk Drive (+$80.00) -> because you need more storage
- i7-3630QM Processor (+$70.00) -> the price hike is not insane for nearly double performance in apps that can use all cores, or with multiple apps running
- 16GB SDRAM (+$75.00) -> because you can never have enough RAM eventually, but it's not that vital
- most likely also the "free downgrade" option to win7 with win8pro upgrade later for 15$
and screw the video upgrade, too expensive for too little extra oomph, at last for me
also screw the thermal compound, if you get heating issues it's almost certainly the fans failing or the heatsinks getting dusty, not the compound failing
= 1299$ (or 1329$ if you go with the intel SSD)

... the "dead pixel guarantee" is a bit of a letdown though, I would expect that to be included by default, and seems gambly fishy. On one hand, I suppose the odds are pretty good you'd get no dead pixels at all in the first place, but risking getting some is annoying, so maybe get it anyway. On the other hand, they wouldn't add that option if it would be to their financial detriment, so as much as I hate randomness, you might better go without it and hope for the best.

Then again, you might have different needs.
And also, 1.3k USD is a bit pricey as far as I'm concerned, especially with a 15.6" screen. Heck, the original 1k already was. But that's just me.

Akita T evewiki profile | | | Build your own EVE-ready PC
J'as Salarkin
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#8 - 2013-01-06 15:38:37 UTC  |  Edited by: J'as Salarkin
Thank you for the links to the page comparing both cpu and gpu. Wa the best comparison page I have found so far.

Akita T wrote:
If I was to select my personal favourites, looking at the particular laptop, I would pick the following customization options IN ORDER OF IMPORTANCE FOR ME PERSONALLY:
- Matte Finished Surface (+$75.00) -> pretty important as far as eye comfort goes, and in time, NOT getting it would be the thing you regret most if it was available in the first place


I have since I wrote this topic gotten to the same conclusion. I am getting the matte finished surface, seems to make a big enough difference.


Akita T wrote:

- primary drive: 128GB Crucial M4 Series SATA3 Solid State Disk Drive (+$70.00) -> once you go SSD, you seldom ever want to go back (and that's the most reasonable one price/performance wise, but the 100$ intel would be my second choice here);
- re-add secondary drive, 750GB 7200rpm SATA2 Secondary Hard Disk Drive (+$80.00) -> because you need more storage


This is interesting to hear. I had totally forgotten to consider a solid state harddrive. I have now read through some stuff about it on the wed (never tried one myself) and I think I might go for one.

Akita T wrote:

- i7-3630QM Processor (+$70.00) -> the price hike is not insane for nearly double performance in apps that can use all cores, or with multiple apps running


This was the feeling i was getting now too (after checking out your comparison page), but if I upgrade the CPU I "only" need to add another 130 dollars to get a slightly better GPU... I might skip on the GPU and go for the CPU in the end.

I am against adding more ram, even if I agree what you say is true. I can, if needed upgrade the ram at a later point.


Akita T wrote:

... the "dead pixel guarantee" is a bit of a letdown though, I would expect that to be included by default, and seems gambly fishy. On one hand, I suppose the odds are pretty good you'd get no dead pixels at all in the first place, but risking getting some is annoying, so maybe get it anyway. On the other hand, they wouldn't add that option if it would be to their financial detriment, so as much as I hate randomness, you might better go without it and hope for the best.

Then again, you might have different needs.
And also, 1.3k USD is a bit pricey as far as I'm concerned, especially with a 15.6" screen. Heck, the original 1k already was. But that's just me.


As far as I have seen everyone is excluding the dead pixel guarantee from their computers, you always pay extra. I will hope for the best (I have never had a problem of a dead pixel to date) and skip that insurance.

If you think it is pricey could you please suggest an alternative? As I see it going down in price will lead me to computers where I can not enjoy new games like farcry3, however its is not required for me to be able to do so, so please suggest a "cheap" computer that would be suitable for EVE.

Thank your for all your help.

Edit: Just wanted to add a comment about the screen size. 17" would be nicer for sure, but I need to able to squeeze the laptop into a backpack and store it in a plane so size and weight is a concern for me. And the matte finish upgrade would be double the price with a 17" screen ;)...
J'as Salarkin
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#9 - 2013-01-06 20:05:57 UTC
I just went ahead and bought a laptop (even slightly more expensive than the one first considered).

Thank you Akita for some of your suggestions.

My specs ended up as:

Display 15.6" Full HD LED-Backlit Display featuring 95% NTSC Color Gamut in Matte Finished Surface (1920 x 1080)
Nvidia GeForce GTX 670MX GPU with 3GB GDDR5 Video Memory
3rd Generation Intel® Core™ i7-3630QM Processor ( 6MB L3 Cache, 2.40GHz)
8GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1600MHz - 2 X 4GB
750GB 7200rpm SATA2 Hard Drive
Crucial 128GB M4 Series mSATA SSD - Preconfigured as an OS Drive (Primary Drive C) [$145.00]
8X DVD±R/RW/4X +DL Super-Multi Drive & Software
Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6235 - 802.11A/B/G/N Wireless LAN + Bluetooth Combo Module [$30.00]
Genuine MS Windows® 7 Home Premium 32/64-Bit Edition ( 64-Bit Preloaded )

all for the "bargain" price of 1449 dollars

No just imagine if I had spend that kind of money on PLEX! I would have been a multi-billionaire! (yes, I do suck at generating isk)
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#10 - 2013-01-07 11:46:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
J'as Salarkin wrote:
Thank you Akita for some of your suggestions.

You're welcome Blink
As far as the earlier "a bit pricey" comment, I merely meant that for a machine that would be used by me (with much lower performance, fit to my needs and my budget), the price for the specs you got is more than fair.
Have fun with the ownership Lol

My current "personal fav" as far as laptops go would be something along the lines of 18.4" FHD screen, 16 GB RAM, small SSD + large HDD, same CPU as the one you picked, but only a Nvidia GeForce GT630M (still quite enough for a single EVE instance), all preferably for not much over 900 USD before taxes. Basically, a workstation desktop replacement monstrosity, not a gaming laptop (but to be honest, quite sufficient for light gaming too).
That's what I helped my mother select about half a year back (she needs it for her engineering projects while on the road, and she did not want both a weaker laptop plus a better desktop), but the screen is glossy, not matte (and that's really the only point of contention I have with it, everything else was almost perfect - matte option was not available, and even if it would have been, I shudder to think how much it would have cost ; then again, it's seldom used under natural light conditions in ways where image quality would be crucial, so it's acceptable).

Quote:
"bargain" price of 1449 dollars - now just imagine if I had spend that kind of money on PLEX! I would have been a multi-billionaire! (yes, I do suck at generating isk)

About 45 bil ISK, give or take 5 bil. Or a bit less than 1/5 of my current liquid ISK Twisted
I could say the same in reverse - imagine if ISK would be freely exchangeable into real life cash too... I would almost certainly have a lot more ISK (since I'd have the motivation to make more again) and I would probably be looking at higher-specced machines more often too.

Akita T evewiki profile | | | Build your own EVE-ready PC
Thomas Gore
Blackfyre Enterprise
#11 - 2013-01-07 13:21:03 UTC
Akita T wrote:
As far as EVE is concerned, CPU matters more for large-scale engagements, since the overarching physics simulation engine...


What physics?
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#12 - 2013-01-07 13:25:11 UTC
Thomas Gore wrote:
Akita T wrote:
As far as EVE is concerned, CPU matters more for large-scale engagements, since the overarching physics simulation engine...

What physics?

Submarines in WD-40 collision avoidance physics. And such.

Akita T evewiki profile | | | Build your own EVE-ready PC