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what level 4 ship is the best atm
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Bev Bim
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-01-06 07:39:57 UTC
ok i've looked around and so many diffrent post's i dont know what tot hink on this subject.
i see the tengu id nerfed ..no wait it still good. i hear use a vargur. no the machariel is best no wait the nightmare is better.

plz im looking to do missions with a mach or nm. prefer long range and some drones. im leaning toward a mach. so question is what missions do i run and what npc corp do i run for. i will do security type.

time to sell my tengu and move up to a battleship. i have access to either the brutor tribe level 3-4's and amarr level 3-4's for emperor family. i would like to get some help / advice on what some experiences have been after the patch in dec.
1. whats the best or close to it fun mission npc corps?
2. whats are good lp isk missions to do
3. whats a good ship i can do all pve missions, incursions, epic arcs in
and last ...thk u for your advice / help.
Ahn Tee Mahtur
#2 - 2013-01-06 07:45:48 UTC
Everyone is going to say the Mach. So might as well state it first, The Mach.
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#3 - 2013-01-06 08:41:28 UTC
Blaster tengu. Hands down. It's like the Spanish Inquisition.

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
CausticS0da
Shrubbery Acquisitions
Blohm and Voss Shipyards Alliance
#4 - 2013-01-06 08:55:16 UTC
I use a Mach for all missions other than those with heavy ewar. For Sansha I use a navy domi which negates any tracking disruption problems.

I've not used a nightmare but can't imagine it will be any good when tracking disrupted and damage type restriction must suck. The 'Drone nerf' has been overstated and sentries still dominate in the face of ewar. Faction sentries do less dps but have insane HP if you are worried about losing them. With these two ships I don't see you having any regrets.

For LP payouts I wouldn't recommend amarr. Smash the missions, use noctis if the mission was BS heavy and make your own ammo. If you're not making a billion per week plus playing casually you're doing it wrong- you'll make more if you do facton missions and collect tags but I personally reject them at the moment.

Good luck and be careful where you put apostrophes.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#5 - 2013-01-06 09:07:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Chainsaw Plankton
CausticS0da wrote:
I've not used a nightmare but can't imagine it will be any good when tracking disrupted and damage type restriction must suck. The 'Drone nerf' has been overstated and sentries still dominate in the face of ewar. Faction sentries do less dps but have insane HP if you are worried about losing them. With these two ships I don't see you having any regrets.


do npc tracking disruptor affect falloff now? if no then tds are no problem because tachys should have plenty of falloff, if yes then the only place I see it sucking is on sansha blockade, don't see too many npc that td (well unless they changed that too) in amarr space the damage type isn't an issue. (apparently they made it so nearly every ship can td and they affect falloff *yikes!*)

if you want long range and drones nightmare is probably your ship. mach has pretty good range but getting closer will help increase dps, yay falloff. mach is another fantastic ship.

imo I'd say get a nightmare and a mach. if you have to pick one I'd say nightmare in amarr space, mach in minny space.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Funky Lazers
Funk Freakers
#6 - 2013-01-06 09:29:57 UTC
Ahn Tee Mahtur wrote:
Everyone is going to say the Mach. So might as well state it first, The Mach.

Whatever.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-01-06 13:59:43 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
CausticS0da wrote:
I've not used a nightmare but can't imagine it will be any good when tracking disrupted and damage type restriction must suck. The 'Drone nerf' has been overstated and sentries still dominate in the face of ewar. Faction sentries do less dps but have insane HP if you are worried about losing them. With these two ships I don't see you having any regrets.


do npc tracking disruptor affect falloff now? if no then tds are no problem because tachys should have plenty of falloff, if yes then the only place I see it sucking is on sansha blockade, don't see too many npc that td (well unless they changed that too) in amarr space the damage type isn't an issue. (apparently they made it so nearly every ship can td and they affect falloff *yikes!*)

if you want long range and drones nightmare is probably your ship. mach has pretty good range but getting closer will help increase dps, yay falloff. mach is another fantastic ship.

imo I'd say get a nightmare and a mach. if you have to pick one I'd say nightmare in amarr space, mach in minny space.


Yes, it affects falloff now. The difference is only Sansha td, they're in Amar space, and laserboats stay in Amar space. NM perform badly against Angels in Minmatar space, where the Mach/Vargurs are.
stoicfaux
#8 - 2013-01-06 15:12:23 UTC
Mach. But the Mach requires flying. If you're too lazy to actively fly your ship, then go with a Vargur.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Opertone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-01-06 18:59:55 UTC
the most effective ship - Ishtar

Navi Domi/Domi - also very good

Sentry drones do not need clicking, sentry drones have up to 76 km (max 90 km Gardes; 200 km Wardens II) range without tracking issues. Sentries can deliver 751 DPS (563 Wardens) in a fully automated mode.

No locking, F1 F2 F3, no flying around... Take agrro, deploy sentries. Come back when the pocket is clear. Very simple.

This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#10 - 2013-01-06 19:18:16 UTC
It depends really on how you like to fly. as said above, a mach needs active piloting. If you only going to get 1 ship to mission in all areas then get a mach. NM is still king in amarr, but you still need to pay attention. If you like to sit still and not worry to much about tank, get T2 sentries and an active tank rattlesnake. If you just blitzing.. stick with the tengu.
cyndrogen
The Greatest Corp in the Universe
#11 - 2013-01-06 19:27:04 UTC
Cage Man wrote:
It depends really on how you like to fly. as said above, a mach needs active piloting. If you only going to get 1 ship to mission in all areas then get a mach. NM is still king in amarr, but you still need to pay attention. If you like to sit still and not worry to much about tank, get T2 sentries and an active tank rattlesnake. If you just blitzing.. stick with the tengu.


Would you mind posting that blitz tengu fit?

I'm curious to see this loadout.

Every day in every way I improve my skills and get better.
Ginger Barbarella
#12 - 2013-01-06 19:30:14 UTC
Bev Bim wrote:
ok i've looked around and so many diffrent post's i dont know what tot hink on this subject.
i see the tengu id nerfed ..no wait it still good. i hear use a vargur. no the machariel is best no wait the nightmare is better.

plz im looking to do missions with a mach or nm. prefer long range and some drones. im leaning toward a mach. so question is what missions do i run and what npc corp do i run for. i will do security type.

time to sell my tengu and move up to a battleship. i have access to either the brutor tribe level 3-4's and amarr level 3-4's for emperor family. i would like to get some help / advice on what some experiences have been after the patch in dec.
1. whats the best or close to it fun mission npc corps?
2. whats are good lp isk missions to do
3. whats a good ship i can do all pve missions, incursions, epic arcs in
and last ...thk u for your advice / help.


By all means, do whatever fellow posters say is the Flavor of the Month. Originality, like Math, is hard.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
CausticS0da
Shrubbery Acquisitions
Blohm and Voss Shipyards Alliance
#13 - 2013-01-06 20:36:03 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Bev Bim wrote:
ok i've looked around and so many diffrent post's i dont know what tot hink on this subject.
i see the tengu id nerfed ..no wait it still good. i hear use a vargur. no the machariel is best no wait the nightmare is better.

plz im looking to do missions with a mach or nm. prefer long range and some drones. im leaning toward a mach. so question is what missions do i run and what npc corp do i run for. i will do security type.

time to sell my tengu and move up to a battleship. i have access to either the brutor tribe level 3-4's and amarr level 3-4's for emperor family. i would like to get some help / advice on what some experiences have been after the patch in dec.
1. whats the best or close to it fun mission npc corps?
2. whats are good lp isk missions to do
3. whats a good ship i can do all pve missions, incursions, epic arcs in
and last ...thk u for your advice / help.


By all means, do whatever fellow posters say is the Flavor of the Month. Originality, like Math, is hard.



Mach has been hailed as 'the best' for at least the last three years. Hardly FOTM...

Tell us about your originality please enlighten us.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#14 - 2013-01-06 20:49:25 UTC
the reason why you get different opinions is that the ship question is a question of taste as much as math. sure, the machariel is a very good mission boat but like has been stated above, you have to actually fly it to achieve good results. a nightmare will burn down sansha/blood raider missions faster than a mach and has not trouble with rats as far out as 100km. the vargur is somewhat more modest in the dps departmen but offers the advantage of salvaging on the go. navy dominix/rattlesnake also have their upsides and then there are the missile boats.
frankly, if i were you, i'd just take a closer look at all the hips, weigh their up- and downsides against each other and then go with the mach.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Seneca Wallace
Sunset Unlimited
#15 - 2013-01-06 21:05:58 UTC
Opertone wrote:
the most effective ship - Ishtar

Navi Domi/Domi - also very good

Sentry drones do not need clicking, sentry drones have up to 76 km (max 90 km Gardes; 200 km Wardens II) range without tracking issues. Sentries can deliver 751 DPS (563 Wardens) in a fully automated mode.

No locking, F1 F2 F3, no flying around... Take agrro, deploy sentries. Come back when the pocket is clear. Very simple.



Does that still work after the drone nerf though?
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-01-06 21:29:33 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
Daniel Plain wrote:
the reason why you get different opinions is that the ship question is a question of taste as much as math. sure, the machariel is a very good mission boat but like has been stated above, you have to actually fly it to achieve good results. a nightmare will burn down sansha/blood raider missions faster than a mach and has not trouble with rats as far out as 100km. the vargur is somewhat more modest in the dps departmen but offers the advantage of salvaging on the go. navy dominix/rattlesnake also have their upsides and then there are the missile boats.
frankly, if i were you, i'd just take a closer look at all the hips, weigh their up- and downsides against each other and then go with the mach.


The falloff curve is such that at 50% falloff, AC still does 80% dps, and not 50%.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Turret_damage

AC on Mach has 75km falloff on short range ammo, and unlike Tachs, has no tracking issues at any range. So no, had you actually flew a Mach instead of making (wrong) assumptions, you'll realize that there's little need to close distance on majority of missions.

NM is limited to Amar. I would not go for a NM until Sansha TD is fixed. TD is untenable atm.

Seneca Wallace wrote:
Opertone wrote:
the most effective ship - Ishtar

Navi Domi/Domi - also very good

Sentry drones do not need clicking, sentry drones have up to 76 km (max 90 km Gardes; 200 km Wardens II) range without tracking issues. Sentries can deliver 751 DPS (563 Wardens) in a fully automated mode.

No locking, F1 F2 F3, no flying around... Take agrro, deploy sentries. Come back when the pocket is clear. Very simple.



Does that still work after the drone nerf though?


It doesn't. Save yourself the grief and stay away from droneboats for the time being. It's untenable, same as TD.
Seneca Wallace
Sunset Unlimited
#17 - 2013-01-06 22:12:05 UTC
sabre906 wrote:

It doesn't. Save yourself the grief and stay away from droneboats for the time being. It's untenable, same as TD.


Thanks for the quick answer. So I guess I have to decide between the "one-ship-fits-all" Tengu or the versatility that is Winmatar.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#18 - 2013-01-06 22:49:57 UTC
sabre906 wrote:

The falloff curve is such that at 50% falloff, AC still does 80% dps, and not 50%.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Turret_damage

AC on Mach has 75km falloff on short range ammo, and unlike Tachs, has no tracking issues at any range. So no, had you actually flew a Mach instead of making (wrong) assumptions, you'll realize that there's little need to close distance on majority of missions.


i see your unjustified accusation based on a false assumption and raise you a graphic comparison. both ships have 4x faction damage mods and 3x T2 tracking/range mods. notice how the target is an orbiting cruiser.
as you can see, the nightmare leaves even the faction shooting machariel behind at around 30km distance. it also has the flexibility to switch the scripts in its tracking computers to either increase its reach or bring its tracking to ~.6 times that of the mach, which is more than enough for any occuring situation in lvl4 missions(most cruisers orbit between 15 and 20k, if you let them come that close).

I should buy an Ishtar.
Bev Bim
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2013-01-06 23:01:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Bev Bim
Thk you all for the great ideas' post's and advice. this is actually the info iw as looking for. well at least all the info is updated , and not like from 2008 or 2010. thx again ill def. try out the mach. and do minmatar missions and arc's.

one thing now that we dont have quality of agents . is there a specific good minmatar npc corp u guys like most.

also on the matter of drones , sentry drones. if i have sentry drone interf. to 5 do i get more damage if i do the specific types to 5 aswell. meaning if i do minmatar drone specialization , caldari,amarr, gallente. to 5

or is that for heavy drones or scout drones mainly? i always get confused .
CausticS0da
Shrubbery Acquisitions
Blohm and Voss Shipyards Alliance
#20 - 2013-01-06 23:11:03 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
the reason why you get different opinions is that the ship question is a question of taste as much as math. sure, the machariel is a very good mission boat but like has been stated above, you have to actually fly it to achieve good results. a nightmare will burn down sansha/blood raider missions faster than a mach and has not trouble with rats as far out as 100km. the vargur is somewhat more modest in the dps departmen but offers the advantage of salvaging on the go. navy dominix/rattlesnake also have their upsides and then there are the missile boats.
frankly, if i were you, i'd just take a closer look at all the hips, weigh their up- and downsides against each other and then go with the mach.


The falloff curve is such that at 50% falloff, AC still does 80% dps, and not 50%.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Turret_damage

AC on Mach has 75km falloff on short range ammo, and unlike Tachs, has no tracking issues at any range. So no, had you actually flew a Mach instead of making (wrong) assumptions, you'll realize that there's little need to close distance on majority of missions.

NM is limited to Amar. I would not go for a NM until Sansha TD is fixed. TD is untenable atm.

Seneca Wallace wrote:
Opertone wrote:
the most effective ship - Ishtar

Navi Domi/Domi - also very good

Sentry drones do not need clicking, sentry drones have up to 76 km (max 90 km Gardes; 200 km Wardens II) range without tracking issues. Sentries can deliver 751 DPS (563 Wardens) in a fully automated mode.

No locking, F1 F2 F3, no flying around... Take agrro, deploy sentries. Come back when the pocket is clear. Very simple.



Does that still work after the drone nerf though?


It doesn't. Save yourself the grief and stay away from droneboats for the time being. It's untenable, same as TD.


Seriously stop posting outright lies. There is absolutely no problem with using a sentry domi post retri. I haven't lost a single sentry in the last two weeks of extensive domi use. Sansha blockade/vengeance both get creamed by the potato with no angst. Can you explain why you are trolling the op?
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