Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Actually, a cloaked ship can scout you and report on your activity, ship class, numbers, movements...A cloaked ship provides the greatest weapon of them all to your enemies, information.

This is what I'm talking about. A way to scan out a cloaked ship. A way to defend against cloacky spies in your system.

First of all for those discounting the threat, its not so much the ship itself but the real threat is whether the ship will be a cyno for a Titan bridge or for a BLOPS fleet, if your stupid enough to take that as being a trival risk then sucks to be you. In terms of an offensive ship a SB can take down a BS if a BS is taking damage in the site, so again it is a risk, same is true of recon ships, if you think otherwise sucks to be you.

First of all I have no issue with cloaky fags, if they engage I kill them, if not I work out when they are really active, we also work on the basis of them being active and fleet up and fit accordingly, risk is always there, you just have to manage it. Another thing is to modify how you run CA's plan to take no damage so when that single SB uncloaks you can tank him and kill him. I had one attack me three times in the same CA and as I knew that he had no backup around I just tanked him and set my drones on him driving him off, a day later he left system, that was in Querious...

In terms of the idea, some time ago I wondered whether having a system wide effect from a Sov module, but the rub was to make it have penalties to use, so it had to be something that made people really think before using it, so I was thinking an immediate 50% reduction in shields of anything in system when it was activated, stations, TCU's, IHUB's, POS's and ships, so it was really only used by people with guts. I thought that was a bit heavy so contemplated having an effect on all resistences for two hours after it was operated as a lessor but still nasty impact of using it. What you do not want to have is people just being able to de-cloak at a whim, but something that people can use in dire need, in other words continious AFK faggotary

Personally I like it how it is, because at the end of the day everytime the system I am currently in got an AFK cloaker I just went out and PvP'd, I thanked one of them for giving me the push to do so and he left about an hour later, was funny. So I understand your frustration, but work around it, have multiple ratting systems if you can.

One problem for you is that these cloaky AFK'rs target people who are renters, they know that if they stop you from operating you will not be able to pay your rent and you will have to leave, if that happens just go and run incursions and then just post every so often how much your earning doing incursions, they will soon go elsewhere...

Well lets put it from the other prespective, what risk does the AFK cloaker have for creating a large risk element for those in the system, little to none. I could accuse you of having the same mindset, AFK cloaking is risk free PvP, simple as! Its always been amusing to me that Gank bears are the most risk adverse people in Eve and AFK cloaking is one area where it shows.

For example I loved listening to the whining of the easy mining ship ganking brigade at the buff to the mining ships, but as such little really changed, mainly because most miners fit for yield rather than tank, but at least the miners have an option, now they can tank a skiff and be relatively secure, but most chose not to, but before I could only mine in a ship with the tank of a wet paper bag, so therefore I did not, now if I mine I have a Skiff that is tanked to hell and back, yield comes second to making people work for it, is it wrong for gankers and griefers to have to work for it?

There are certain areas of 0.0 that are very secure, take CFC space, but a lot of 0.0 is not like that, just because Deklin is very secure does not mean all 0.0 is secure!



I never said it is wrong, those people are always going to be targetted first as they are locked in and are the easiest target for ransom and I suspect that the OP was one of them, my suggestion was to use other income streams and make sure the campers know it.

They have exactly the same risk as the others in local. Even though you may not like it, the fact is while he remains cloaked, he cannot lock you or light a cyno.

But they are having to work for it. If you didn't have the all seeing eye, they wouldn't have the need to try and work to subvert it's intel. The difference is locals intel is guaranteed, whereas the psychological effects from AFKing are not.

One could argue local makes null safer than high sec. At least you know who your enemy is in null. Any nerf to cloaking without a change to local, would mean it becomes far too safe.

The problem you are having, is you're not seeing the whole picture. You don't even take local into account, when deciding upon any change. That was the mechanic my question related to.

Answer me this. When someone is AFKing, what mechanic are they using to interact with you?

The fact that you can AFK without a cloak and cause the same psychological effects, should speak volumes. But I have a feeling it's falling on deaf ears.

Maybe CCP should start forum banning people who make these posts.

Moving from Warfare & Tactics to Features & Ideas.

The only reason AFK cloaking even exists is because of local, without it there is no reason to. If the cloaked ship is removed from local then there is no point for extended AFK periods, if the cloaked ship is blind to local when cloaked they must d-scan or use probes to locate ships.

TL:DR Local is the reason behind AFK cloaking.

A cyno is an active mechanic and does not require a cloak to be effective. If you have issues with them, then make a thread about it. But I guess it's far easier to start the name calling than talk facts. They are AFK, cloaked and not able to harm you. At the point they can, you can harm them.

We are talking about AFKing in regards to the psychological effects. If you want to widen this to include other things, then we must include the fact that you have a cyno jammer. More than likely capitals and the ability to blob the hell out of whomever is in local. It's pointless one-upmanship and gets us no where.

But I have to ask. Why is that person ratting in a carrier, with an enemy in local? Maybe it's a bait ship and his alliance buddies are waiting to counter drop the Blops. Hmmm, sounds like risk for both sides again.

You have to work for your intel though, don't you? It's not handed to you on a plate, unlike null. That's what this all boils down to, intel.

No I'm not joking. You know in null who your enemy is, you don't in high sec. One could argue this makes local easier to read in null, thus safer. Nerfing cloaks means more intel power, on top of what already is an extremely powerful intel tool. Sorry but I don't see that as balance, no matter how you plug it.

I actually like the status quo and do not want local removed. But thanks for thinking you know me.
I'm pointing out that without local, AFKing for the reason of causing psychological warfare, would be pointless. Hence ended.

But no one with any sense of balance would advocate locals removal, without a package of changes to replace it. This could include changes to cloaks. But while ever local is the 100% risk free, instant intel tool it is, cloaks should not be touched.

That last sentence is not idiotic btw (thanks again). It's been done, we've even talked about it in one of these threads.
Then what about those in stations docked. Do you honestly think they are not having that effect on people in the system?

Nope. Truth. There is no need to AFK cloak in Wormholes because no one knows who is actually there. That means people who live in wormholes have to be constantly paranoid and take precautions. Not so much the case in 0.0 space.

Every time I enter a populated 0.0 system with my main in a normal combat ship everyone warps away from whatever activity they were doing and over to a station or POS. Then they either log off, wait me out, and/or call in several dozen people to remove my one ship.
As it stands... the only way to get at the industry of a system without bringing in a sizable force of my own and laying siege to the system or to AFK cloak (thus "devaluing" local's intel) and strike when people get complacent (which they shouldn't ever be).


WIth regards to the "AFKing without a cloak" that Mag was alluding to...

I can fit an interceptor to perma run a MWD and fit a cyno to it... blitz into your system... then warp to a safespot and MWD off into some random direction... and do so indefinitely will little to no chance of capture.
The Interceptor reduces the sig radius of the ship with the MWD on... equipping ECCMs makes more difficult to probe down... and having the right implants can increase the difficulty even further. And even if you do, by some miracle, manage to probe the inty down... it will be almost off grid by the time you come out of warp (because it's moving at 4 to 5000+ m/sec).
At any point in time, the player can decide to "become active" and activate the cyno wherever he/she pleases.

So no... the problem you have with cynos is with cynos... not specifically with cloaking ships.

As far as cloaking specific ships go...

- the only cloaking capable ship that can immediately target after decloaking is the Sealth Bomber. All other ships have a minimum 5 to 7 second delay before they can begin targeting... which itself takes another 2 to 5 seconds before achieving "lock"... which gives any ship a minimum of 5 to 10 seconds to escape before it can even be pointed (which is more than enough if a person has kept their ship aligned).
- cloaking capable ships generally have lower "direct" combat effectiveness compared to their T1 counterparts. The Stealth Bomber epitomizes this as it has almost no tanking ability beyond its sig radius. This means that such ships MUST choose "unfair fights" because the odds are not good otherwise.
- Black Ops ships are the shortest range "jump ship" in the game. That means they need to be VERY close to their targets to launch a strike. They also have "fuel issues" (not much capacity) which makes Black-ops drops in enemy space a logistical nightmare for amateurs.