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Booster Manufacturing & Gas Mining
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Janus Mandu
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-01-02 09:49:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Janus Mandu
Hi.

I am fairly new to Eve and interested in producing boosters. I allready read up alot about it, but I'd like to ask you guys if this is actually profitable. I don't mind if it's not the best ISK/hour in the world but is it enough to afford a PLEX per month and cover some additional expenses?

Also, while I am training the necessary skills and looking for a corp with the necessary equipment, I'd like to make a few ISKies with my Venture Mining Frigate in the meantime. I read alot about it being very good at ninja gas mining in wormholes. But since I am on my own for the moment, I am wondering if I would be able to stay alive / tank the sleeper damage in like C1-C2 ladar sites? If not - if this is not something doable solo - is gas mining in empire (low sec) worthwile, or do you make much more ISK with ore mining (considering everything in a Venture)?

Thanks in advance!
leoplusma
Delfus Inc.
#2 - 2013-01-02 10:10:53 UTC  |  Edited by: leoplusma
to make boosters you need gas.

but you need to process the gas. so i guess you have access to a pos in low/null for example?
coz afaik you cant anchor a Biochemical Reactor Array in highsec pos.

also just a thought: if u spent time inside the wh in a mining ship solo, you always need to check first the wh entrance life duration. i mean, you dont want to get trapped inside with no means of scanning your way out.

leo
Beckie DeLey
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-01-02 10:17:59 UTC
leoplusma wrote:
also just a thought: if u spent time inside the wh in a mining ship solo, you always need to check first the wh entrance life duration. i mean, you dont want to get trapped inside with no means of scanning your way out.


Luckily the Venture has a utility highslot for a probe launcher...

My siren's name is Brick and she is the prettiest.
leoplusma
Delfus Inc.
#4 - 2013-01-02 10:22:15 UTC
Beckie DeLey wrote:
leoplusma wrote:
also just a thought: if u spent time inside the wh in a mining ship solo, you always need to check first the wh entrance life duration. i mean, you dont want to get trapped inside with no means of scanning your way out.


Luckily the Venture has a utility highslot for a probe launcher...


no wonder why ^^
Janus Mandu
Doomheim
#5 - 2013-01-02 10:49:05 UTC
Well, thanks for the comments but that wasn't exactly what I asked for. Let me put it like this:

1) Can you make decent - good money with booster manufacturing?
2) Can a Venture outtank Sleepers in C1 / C2 ladar sites?
3) Is ore mining much more profitable than k-space gas mining?
LordSpock
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-01-02 11:03:52 UTC
Janus Mandu wrote:
Well, thanks for the comments but that wasn't exactly what I asked for. Let me put it like this:

1) Can you make decent - good money with booster manufacturing?
2) Can a Venture outtank Sleepers in C1 / C2 ladar sites?
3) Is ore mining much more profitable than k-space gas mining?


Keep in mind that the gas harvested in WH's are not the same ones used in the production of boosters.
Wenji Cao
The F'n Stark Industries
#7 - 2013-01-03 11:23:17 UTC
wow that's what that third slot is for? because the ship looks like it supposed to be able to use 3 miners lol.
Mister Tuggles
Heretic Army
Sedition.
#8 - 2013-01-03 12:34:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Mister Tuggles
Janus Mandu wrote:
Well, thanks for the comments but that wasn't exactly what I asked for. Let me put it like this:

1) Can you make decent - good money with booster manufacturing?
2) Can a Venture outtank Sleepers in C1 / C2 ladar sites?
3) Is ore mining much more profitable than k-space gas mining?



1) Yes
2) No
3) Depends on skills/where you are located


Edit: Also keep in mind that while the Venture is nice for gas sucking a BC will do better using 5x gas harvester II's, and you can fit a good tank as well.

And to Wenji: It has 3 high slots, but only two turret slots. Gas suckers require a turret slot, miners do not.
Mal Braktar
Tesseract Nexus Holdings
#9 - 2013-01-03 15:03:32 UTC
[/quote]

And to Wenji: It has 3 high slots, but only two turret slots. Gas suckers require a turret slot, miners do not.[/quote]


Mining lasers do require a turret slot, at least on the venture.
Janus Mandu
Doomheim
#10 - 2013-01-03 15:23:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Janus Mandu
Thanks for the answers. Have to agree with Mal Braktar, though. It can also only fit 2 Mining Lasers. And also...


Mister Tuggles wrote:
Edit: Also keep in mind that while the Venture is nice for gas sucking a BC will do better using 5x gas harvester II's, and you can fit a good tank as well.

This is wrong. Since the Venture has 100% Yield Bonus and 5% Duration Bonus per Level to Gas Mining you will get the same amount of yield with a maxed out Venture as with any ship that can fit 5 Harvesters. Simple Math: 2 * 2 * 1.25 = 5
While you are correct though, that the BC would have better tank, the Venture makes up for that with a 5k m³ ore bay. So, in environments, where you don't have to worry about incoming damage (like nebula ladar sites in high and low sec, which have no rats), the Venture is actually better if you don't have a dedicated hauler.

/edit
Wait, The Venture is actually yielding a little more gas than any 5-gas harvester ship could ever be able to. That's because the second bonus factor (the one resulting from the cycle duration decrease) is actually 1.333 (1 / 0.75) rather than 1.25.

Example
Normal Ship (no bonuses): 5 Gas Cloud Harvester II yield 20m³ each per 40 seconds. So per minute we get 5 * 20m³ * 60/40 = 150m³
Venture (100% yield bonus, 25% cycle duration reduction): 2 Gas Cloud Harvester II yield 40m³ each per 30 seconds. So per minute we get 2 * 40m³ * 60/30 = 160m³

Conclusion
Maxed out Venture with Gas Cloud Harvester II's yields 10m³ more gas per minute than any other ship.
Dr Agropoly
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2013-01-03 22:34:41 UTC
Janus Mandu wrote:
Hi.

I am fairly new to Eve and interested in producing boosters. I allready read up alot about it, but I'd like to ask you guys if this is actually profitable. I don't mind if it's not the best ISK/hour in the world but is it enough to afford a PLEX per month and cover some additional expenses?

Also, while I am training the necessary skills and looking for a corp with the necessary equipment, I'd like to make a few ISKies with my Venture Mining Frigate in the meantime. I read alot about it being very good at ninja gas mining in wormholes. But since I am on my own for the moment, I am wondering if I would be able to stay alive / tank the sleeper damage in like C1-C2 ladar sites? If not - if this is not something doable solo - is gas mining in empire (low sec) worthwile, or do you make much more ISK with ore mining (considering everything in a Venture)?

Thanks in advance!


The point with ninjaing gas sites in w-space is that you don' need to tank the sleepers, if you do it right they wont engage at all. Also keep in mind what someone here stated that the gas taken from w-space is not used for boosters but for t3 production. A venture with 2 t2 harvesters will have a bit more then 6% better yield then a bc with 5 harvesters, at least if you are not running links. Haven't done the math on boosted gas huffing so can't comment on that.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#12 - 2013-01-03 23:40:43 UTC
Janus Mandu wrote:
Wait, The Venture is actually yielding a little more gas than any 5-gas harvester ship could ever be able to. That's because the second factor (the one resulting from the cycle duration decrese) is actually 1.333 rather than 1.25.

2 gas harvesters * (1 + 100% bonus) / (1 - Mining Frigate 5 * 5% reduction) = 5.33 effective gas harvesters
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-01-04 01:33:44 UTC
The problem with your question OP is that booster production is far too complex to answer your questions simply.

Can you make good isk? Probably. Enough for a plex? Possibly.

Are you going to gather the gas yourself? Booster gas is pretty much only found in low(for the crappy boosters) or null.

You will need a pos, in low or null. Figure a large in order to have defenses. That is about 400mil per month in just fuel.

Add to that the blueprints you need. Other components. Logistics getting everything in and out etc.
Crexa
Ion Industrials
#14 - 2013-01-04 02:15:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Crexa
The problem with boosters is volume. You won't be able to sell enough.

Now if CCP actually made drugs, drug running, crime, punishment etc a more integrated part of the game. Increased the frequency and location of gas clouds/bpc drops. And, or, increased the boost quantity. You might see volume.

I would love to see volume up in the ammo range but that might be a bit too much. They are supposed to be illegal after all.

"F=ma, so obviously they're putting mouths against arses to produce a force." "...its breakfast time and i am very hungry. may i have some of your paint chips?"
LordSpock
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-01-04 10:10:36 UTC
Mister Tuggles wrote:
Janus Mandu wrote:
Well, thanks for the comments but that wasn't exactly what I asked for. Let me put it like this:

1) Can you make decent - good money with booster manufacturing?
2) Can a Venture outtank Sleepers in C1 / C2 ladar sites?
3) Is ore mining much more profitable than k-space gas mining?



1) Yes
2) No
3) Depends on skills/where you are located


Edit: Also keep in mind that while the Venture is nice for gas sucking a BC will do better using 5x gas harvester II's, and you can fit a good tank as well.

And to Wenji: It has 3 high slots, but only two turret slots. Gas suckers require a turret slot, miners do not.


Mining lasers do indeed require a turret hardpoint. As to the slot layout and the role it has (with the +2 warp strength and the gas harvesting capabailities) you can strap on a probe launcher to actually go solo and find the sites you want to mine in more dangerous parts of space.
Or be able to exit the wormholespace where your initila entrance/exit collapsed.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#16 - 2013-01-04 11:13:49 UTC
Janus Mandu wrote:
Well, thanks for the comments but that wasn't exactly what I asked for. Let me put it like this:



That tends to happen more often than not on the EVE-O Forums. For sure.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#17 - 2013-01-04 11:15:29 UTC
Mister Tuggles wrote:

2) Can a Venture outtank Sleepers in C1 / C2 ladar sites?

2) No



Almost lost a Nighthawk recently to Sleepers. Sleepers are hard.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#18 - 2013-01-04 12:59:57 UTC
Gas production isn't really the 'easy' part of industry. I won't repeat what else is posted here but simple answer, what you are proposing to do will be a waste of your time. You would make more isk mining veldspar in your venture with a lot less frustration and effort.

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

Import CCP's SDE - EVE SDE Database Builder
Janus Mandu
Doomheim
#19 - 2013-01-04 14:38:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Janus Mandu
Zifrian wrote:
You would make more isk mining veldspar in your venture with a lot less frustration and effort.

I'm sorry to correct someone who just want's to help me again but I think it's more important to get things right for other newbies like me, that might stumble upon this.

While I actually will not provide any specific numbers on this one (business secrets!) with the limited number of skills and ressources that are available to me, I make around twice as much profit/hour with harvesting gas in low sec than with mining the best ores in high sec - I did the calculations as well as comparing 10+ hour testruns (taking scanning time for nebulae into account). If you invest a little bit more time in distributing your gas / finding customers to sell frequent and in large bulks to, you can push this a lot further even (since selling gas is not as easy as selling ore / minerals).
Also, while harvesting gas in low sec you can literally go AFK for the whole time it takes for your cargo to fill up. If you choose the right location (combination of 1) gas that sells relatively easy and frequent, 2) gas that sells for quite a good amount of ISK, 3) system is part of a hotspot constellation 4) low traffic systems, 5) systems close to coninious high sec without commonly gatecamped entrances) you are actually extremely unlikely to get killed while you're not watching the game. I've harvested gas now for around 15+ hours, 95% of the time AFK checking back only every 20 minutes or so and didn't get shot once. Just a little disclaimer: I'm not saying you are guaranteed to live (but on the other hand if you get killed you only lose a venture + whatever implants you felt comfortable risking).

Of course you need to invest some active time scanning ladar sites down in the first place, but I prefer that rather than coming back every 3 minutes to target new asteroids and stuff that you get while mining ore.

Also, even if you compare a maxed out hulk with a maxed out venture you won't lose much isk/hour if you chose your gas and the general approach to your business wisely.
Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#20 - 2013-01-05 02:20:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Zifrian
Janus Mandu wrote:
Zifrian wrote:
You would make more isk mining veldspar in your venture with a lot less frustration and effort.

I'm sorry to correct someone who just want's to help me again but I think it's more important to get things right for other newbies like me, that might stumble upon this.

While I actually will not provide any specific numbers on this one (business secrets!) with the limited number of skills and ressources that are available to me, I make around twice as much profit/hour with harvesting gas in low sec than with mining the best ores in high sec - I did the calculations as well as comparing 10+ hour testruns (taking scanning time for nebulae into account). If you invest a little bit more time in distributing your gas / finding customers to sell frequent and in large bulks to, you can push this a lot further even (since selling gas is not as easy as selling ore / minerals).
Also, while harvesting gas in low sec you can literally go AFK for the whole time it takes for your cargo to fill up. If you choose the right location (combination of 1) gas that sells relatively easy and frequent, 2) gas that sells for quite a good amount of ISK, 3) system is part of a hotspot constellation 4) low traffic systems, 5) systems close to coninious high sec without commonly gatecamped entrances) you are actually extremely unlikely to get killed while you're not watching the game. I've harvested gas now for around 15+ hours, 95% of the time AFK checking back only every 20 minutes or so and didn't get shot once. Just a little disclaimer: I'm not saying you are guaranteed to live (but on the other hand if you get killed you only lose a venture + whatever implants you felt comfortable risking).

Of course you need to invest some active time scanning ladar sites down in the first place, but I prefer that rather than coming back every 3 minutes to target new asteroids and stuff that you get while mining ore.

Also, even if you compare a maxed out hulk with a maxed out venture you won't lose much isk/hour if you chose your gas and the general approach to your business wisely.

OK, well why did you make this thread then? Seems like you have it all figured out and don't have any on how to make money gas mining. I mean, you posted like you were a newb...asking about lowsec mining when you...clearly do it already? What?

Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!

Import CCP's SDE - EVE SDE Database Builder
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