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NPC versus Drones: Something went wrong...

Author
Korgan Nailo
5ER3NITY INC
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#1 - 2013-01-02 09:17:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Korgan Nailo
Yet another drone thread.

So, from the devblog:

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73413
3. Q) Will NPC's kill my drones?
A) Yes, but they don't hate them nearly as much as sleepers. I ran 9 level 4 missions and lost 2 drones. It does mean you need to pay more attention though. We can adjust their hatred of drones though which is why we are asking for feedback when this hits a test server.


My experience, purely PvE:
- T2 drones are just to waste money. Despite watching the drone window closely and calling them back at the first sight of damage (with Shift+R, aka no time lost in right click + return) they go pop.
- The new change in which only "elite frigates" will shot light combat drones help, yet, who the heck know all the elite frigates names of all rats?

And for statistics: ONE Worlds Collide, 6 light combat drones lost. Kind of waaaaay different than what was said in the devblog. Oh wait, perhaps they were running L4s like "The Right Hand of Zaazzzz(whatever)", in which you warp in, pop everything and don't even launch your drones... riiiight...

Perhaps it is me, perhaps it is the difference in expectations, but something went really wrong along the way...

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Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#2 - 2013-01-02 11:09:51 UTC
Using a dominix I get similar results to the dev (one presumes the dominix was used for the test), and better now that I've had more practice with the new AI - mostly I actually lost drones to the fullstage aggro bugs, which brought overwhelming firepower onto drones. The NPCs really don't have a good answer to sentry sniping, or to sentries generally.

I get lots of drone aggro in plexes with my blaster vexor - as occasionally I have to kite and kill some battlecruisers before I can kill the overseers, but the combination of drone durability and vexor drone hp buff means the drones generally survive, and the whole task is relatively engaging / fun.

a 75m3 bay battleship and a pilot with no drone durability is likely to lose a lot of drones if they just stick them out there to kill big lists of frigates unassisted.
bloodknight2
Revenu.Quebec
#3 - 2013-01-02 13:27:41 UTC
I lost....2 hob since retribution *TEARS*

Not aggroed NPC will shoot your drone like they were doing before retribution. If the whole room is aggroed, then only elite frigs will shoot down your small drone.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-01-02 14:59:55 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
Korgan Nailo wrote:
Yet another drone thread.

So, from the devblog:

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73413
3. Q) Will NPC's kill my drones?
A) Yes, but they don't hate them nearly as much as sleepers. I ran 9 level 4 missions and lost 2 drones. It does mean you need to pay more attention though. We can adjust their hatred of drones though which is why we are asking for feedback when this hits a test server.


My experience, purely PvE:
- T2 drones are just to waste money. Despite watching the drone window closely and calling them back at the first sight of damage (with Shift+R, aka no time lost in right click + return) they go pop.
- The new change in which only "elite frigates" will shot light combat drones help, yet, who the heck know all the elite frigates names of all rats?

And for statistics: ONE Worlds Collide, 6 light combat drones lost. Kind of waaaaay different than what was said in the devblog. Oh wait, perhaps they were running L4s like "The Right Hand of Zaazzzz(whatever)", in which you warp in, pop everything and don't even launch your drones... riiiight...

Perhaps it is me, perhaps it is the difference in expectations, but something went really wrong along the way...


They "tested" it on the easy missions and assumed it's all good. Devs don't actually play pve.

Any other mmo company wouldn't be making sweeping changes to game mechanics without rebalancing existing missions in a case by case basis. CCP seems to lack some basic functional norms followed by other mmo makers.
Mnemosyne Gloob
#5 - 2013-01-02 18:57:26 UTC
Korgan Nailo wrote:
[snip] who the heck know all the elite frigates names of all rats? [snip]


Use and learn to use the Type column in your overview.
Funky Lazers
Funk Freakers
#6 - 2013-01-02 23:58:01 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Devs don't actually play pve.


I think they don't play PvP either.

All they do is listen to nullbear newbs about nerfing hi-sec and that kind of sh.

Whatever.

Rengerel en Distel
#7 - 2013-01-03 03:05:48 UTC
Mnemosyne Gloob wrote:
Korgan Nailo wrote:
[snip] who the heck know all the elite frigates names of all rats? [snip]


Use and learn to use the Type column in your overview.


You know the type column only repeats the name of the NPCs, right?

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.

Leetha Layne
#8 - 2013-01-03 04:58:00 UTC
OP clearly does not know how to use drones,
Piugattuk
Litla Sundlaugin
#9 - 2013-01-03 05:15:41 UTC
I only deploy drones if I'm tackled or can't hit fly buzzing frigs otherwise they stay put I have never lost anymore since I have done that even in a gun ship I just pop fraggets before they are under my guns.
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#10 - 2013-01-03 05:30:44 UTC
Since the changes I have still lost no drones.. in HS PVE or WH PVE. I use sentries and lights.. always have, never seen the need to use mediums or heavy's. If you don't send your drones 60km to kill stuff they will get back in time..
Korgan Nailo
5ER3NITY INC
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#11 - 2013-01-04 01:36:24 UTC
Some interesting replies, thanks.

I've been loosing drones asking them to target frigates orbiting my BS at less than 20kms, which I can't hit anymore with large turrets of course.

I'm not sending them 40kms away, I'm recalling them as soon as I see them taking any damage, but usually the first volley put them on hull already, then it is just a sneeze to pop them.

All I do in the game is missioning, and that has been like that since day 1. Tried Incursions, ok, but I do like missioning. Never lost drones to misguiding them or sending them to do the wrong thing. Used to fly droneboats, but liked turrets more, so now drones are just for support.

Honestly? I just don't see what else could be done to avoid the problem.

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Paskis Robinson
Black Eagles.
#12 - 2013-01-04 03:01:12 UTC
You sound like me. You don't mind Eve being hard, hard is good, as long as it's interesting type hard.

Frustrating hard, by virtue of NPCs that were designed to spawn in a certain way under the old AI and are now impossible or incredibly annoying to fight under the new AI, is game breaking.
Rengerel en Distel
#13 - 2013-01-04 03:44:02 UTC
Korgan Nailo wrote:
Some interesting replies, thanks.

I've been loosing drones asking them to target frigates orbiting my BS at less than 20kms, which I can't hit anymore with large turrets of course.

I'm not sending them 40kms away, I'm recalling them as soon as I see them taking any damage, but usually the first volley put them on hull already, then it is just a sneeze to pop them.

All I do in the game is missioning, and that has been like that since day 1. Tried Incursions, ok, but I do like missioning. Never lost drones to misguiding them or sending them to do the wrong thing. Used to fly droneboats, but liked turrets more, so now drones are just for support.

Honestly? I just don't see what else could be done to avoid the problem.


You can use the micro jump drive to get range for your turrets.
You can release your drones, but don't send them. When the elites switch, recall them. You should have 2 minutes after that to launch them and take out the frigates. (Some missions, the rats switch faster, so be aware).

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.

Sgt LoveDragon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-01-04 04:02:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt LoveDragon
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
Korgan Nailo wrote:
Some interesting replies, thanks.

I've been loosing drones asking them to target frigates orbiting my BS at less than 20kms, which I can't hit anymore with large turrets of course.

I'm not sending them 40kms away, I'm recalling them as soon as I see them taking any damage, but usually the first volley put them on hull already, then it is just a sneeze to pop them.

All I do in the game is missioning, and that has been like that since day 1. Tried Incursions, ok, but I do like missioning. Never lost drones to misguiding them or sending them to do the wrong thing. Used to fly droneboats, but liked turrets more, so now drones are just for support.

Honestly? I just don't see what else could be done to avoid the problem.


You can use the micro jump drive to get range for your turrets.
You can release your drones, but don't send them. When the elites switch, recall them. You should have 2 minutes after that to launch them and take out the frigates. (Some missions, the rats switch faster, so be aware).



The missions i do you actually you cant use a MJD to get range for turrets because you get td'd to 7 km. If you're not getting td'd then you're getting sebo'd to less than 50 and spend 30seconds locking a frigate. Generally when i recall half dead drones orbiting an elite frig at 7km and then redeploy them they die. What missions are these that you play with?
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#15 - 2013-01-04 05:20:29 UTC
What are your drone skills like? Once you have T2 lights and mediums, the other should all be at lvl4, like any other weapon/defense skill. The more damage the do, the quicker the npc are dead, the faster they move.. the quicker they will return and of course drone durability helps heaps with getting them back safer..
I think a lot of people have the very minimum to use them, but they should be trained properly to be effective..
Hazen Koraka
HK Enterprises
#16 - 2013-01-04 08:22:01 UTC
All that's needed is a UI change to indicate when your drones are being targetted. If that was implemented (It's been a long running feature request) that would make things a whole lot easier (in regards to losing drones anyway - not necessarily being able to apply dps).

Exploration is Random. Random is Random... or is it?! http://docs.python.org/2/library/random.html

Bing Khagah
Doomheim
#17 - 2013-01-04 08:26:32 UTC
Cage Man wrote:
What are your drone skills like? [...] I think a lot of people have the very minimum to use them, but they should be trained properly to be effective..

"I" have over 7 mill SP in drones. Occasionally they still get instapopped.
Drones have certainly gone down a few pegs - at least 5 for noobs / those that trained Drones to V and pre-reqs to 1 - but IMO the most important skills for drone users these days are the (player) tanking ones. Unfortunate.
Kestrix
The Whispering
#18 - 2013-01-04 21:13:08 UTC
Sentry drones + 12 mill skill points in drones makes for fewer drone losses and quicker missions. Use a Rattle Snake for it's drone bonuses and large drone bay. Fit a passive tank and drone upgrades and your laughing
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-01-04 21:29:25 UTC
Kestrix wrote:
Sentry drones + 12 mill skill points in drones makes for fewer drone losses and quicker missions. Use a Rattle Snake for it's drone bonuses and large drone bay. Fit a passive tank and drone upgrades and your laughing


Too much theorycrafting, not enough undocking. Your first set of sentries will soon be stripped of shield, then armor, then next set. Think they'll fix themselves in that dronebay?

Time to get these rr domis set up...P
Kestrix
The Whispering
#20 - 2013-01-04 21:34:55 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Kestrix wrote:
Sentry drones + 12 mill skill points in drones makes for fewer drone losses and quicker missions. Use a Rattle Snake for it's drone bonuses and large drone bay. Fit a passive tank and drone upgrades and your laughing


Too much theorycrafting, not enough undocking. Your first set of sentries will soon be stripped of shield, then armor, then next set. Think they'll fix themselves in that dronebay?

Time to get these rr domis set up...P


Not at all... there shields take a bashing and it occasionally even gets through to there armour if I'm slow but it's not difficult to scoop a drone and kick it out again or even scoop the lot in and put them out again.
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