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Level 5 Missions are Broken
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Paul Panala
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-01-02 23:42:52 UTC
For the sake of curiosity, what is a level 5 mission you can run in under 5 minutes? I would like to read about its details. The mission I did required you to deal almost 200,000 EHP to 21 different ships before activating a 2nd acceleration gate where you then faced heavy neut towers and about 500,000 EHP worth of ships that must be killed.

Again, I am not complaining that the missions are too hard, they are not. To the original point. What advice do you think I have been given that I am ignoring? Basically all anyone has said is "stop fussing and DScan." No one has really said anything practical at all.

Also, my challenge was fine as it was. I never asked you to put any ISK on the line, it wasn’t a bet. If you are really going to do the mission in less than 5 minutes then even if I turn out to be a jerk and don’t pay up, what, you lost 5 minutes of your time? Also, I would have no YouTube video to post. Sorry, can’t pick your own mission, I am sure there are some that can be blitzed; I was talking about average missions, not the odd ball one.
Fango Mango
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-01-02 23:53:26 UTC
Paul Panala wrote:
For the sake of curiosity, what is a level 5 mission you can run in under 5 minutes? I would like to read about its details. The mission I did required you to deal almost 200,000 EHP to 21 different ships before activating a 2nd acceleration gate where you then faced heavy neut towers and about 500,000 EHP worth of ships that must be killed.

Again, I am not complaining that the missions are too hard, they are not. To the original point. What advice do you think I have been given that I am ignoring? Basically all anyone has said is "stop fussing and DScan." No one has really said anything practical at all.

Also, my challenge was fine as it was. I never asked you to put any ISK on the line, it wasn’t a bet. If you are really going to do the mission in less than 5 minutes then even if I turn out to be a jerk and don’t pay up, what, you lost 5 minutes of your time? Also, I would have no YouTube video to post. Sorry, can’t pick your own mission, I am sure there are some that can be blitzed; I was talking about average missions, not the odd ball one.


Oh change of tune now I see . . . Not willing to put your PLEX where your mouth is are you?

Of course not all the missions can be blitz . . .

Pro Tip - ONLY RUN THE MISSIONS THAT CAN BE BLITZED . . .

Talk smack and THEN ask for help? I think you have that backwards . . .

Try reading my old posts (and other excellent forum posts on the matter), or take the bet and pay me 10 PLEX to show you how to blitz a mission.

-FM
Rip Minner
ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
#23 - 2013-01-03 00:44:39 UTC
Level 5's need to pay more to make them worth it.

There mainly done by people that happen to have the area at that time. Not becouse it's worth fighting over.

You can easly make more doing FW or Incursions.

Level 5's are broken more in that the reward do's not meet the demand placed on you when running one.

Ya if you and your boys happen to have the system at the time and are bored yall mite run one but it's not like they use to be with unprobable ships or way back when you could get them in high sec.

People dont go out of there way a hole lot in order to do this broken things.

Is it a rock point a lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship point a lazer at it and profit. I dont see any problems here.
Brent Oskold
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2013-01-03 02:22:16 UTC
Dude I think you might be mildly ********. If ur in null, low sec or a Worm Hole, you must use dscan every 5sec. If you don't, you die. L5 missions are broken, but I have no idea why you think they are broken because a player came in and shot you.
Fango Mango
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2013-01-03 02:26:46 UTC
Rip Minner wrote:
Level 5's need to pay more to make them worth it.

There mainly done by people that happen to have the area at that time. Not becouse it's worth fighting over.

You can easly make more doing FW or Incursions.

Level 5's are broken more in that the reward do's not meet the demand placed on you when running one.

Ya if you and your boys happen to have the system at the time and are bored yall mite run one but it's not like they use to be with unprobable ships or way back when you could get them in high sec.

People dont go out of there way a hole lot in order to do this broken things.


Well except for the fact that you can blitz around 5 L5s per hour . . . That works out to around 650 Mil/Hour at today's market rates.

Sure you have to convert the LP and that can be a hassle.

There are not many other PvE activities where a single player (even using alts) can bring in that kind of ISK with cheap non-capital ships.

Incursions will get you 100 Mil/Hour Per Char, but usually 2 chars per player Max is all people can micro manage and requires very pimped ships.

FW plexing can get you around 40K LP/Hour if no-one is hunting you, so if you have 10-12 FW alts plexing you can make as much, but at some point you're going to get hunted.

Cosmos alts can make you 80-150 Million per char per hour if you know what you are doing and you can parallel as many as accounts as your computer will handle (because you're not in low sec and no one can just shoot you). That is very profitable but repetitive/boring as hell.

-FM
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#26 - 2013-01-03 03:00:16 UTC
This thread is rather pathetic. As I said, I do lvl 5 missions dual boxing 2 ships without logi , i've never lost a ship traveling to a or in a mission and have done so for the last 3 years. I do this in "hostile" space, I have no "friends" in any of the 4 areas I run lvl 5s (see, FOUR AREAS, flexibility)

If you (OP) are saying they need changing because you can't figure out how to deal with opposistion? That's tough, many others of us have figured it all out and make good money doing it.

If you buff something just because "not enough people are doing it", guess what, you just creared the next big isk faucet, becuase some huge coalition WILL come in, lock down the systems like people did in Faction Warfare and the old low sec incursions before the nerf, and farm the beejesus out of them. Have you even considered the consequences of what you are asking for?

You simply don't have enough experience with lvl 5s to even have an opinon, my suggestion is learn how to do them properly for a few months then form a less ignorant opinion.
Ifly Uwalk
Perkone
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-01-03 06:02:40 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
This thread is rather pathetic.

/thread tbh
Gal'o Sengen
Doomheim
#28 - 2013-01-03 07:10:26 UTC
Why are you doing L5's with Neutrals in system?
Kr0nicz187 BUKBUK
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-01-03 07:39:08 UTC
To the OP, 4 words...GO Back To Wow
Pirate






MoA
Pseudo Random
Doomheim
#30 - 2013-01-03 08:38:54 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Fango Mango wrote:
sabre906 wrote:


1) Normal people make friends. Lulzsec ganker alts of normal ppl don't make friends. I know I don't on mine.
2) Good hunters work fast, especially with multiple targets. By the time you see the probes, they're already in warp, by the time you get the whole fleet to leave, someone's getting left behind.
3) All l5 systems are camped, heavily, even obscure ones like Khanid Navy, No exceptions.
4) Lvl 5 mission fail penalty = no more agent access.
5) Virgin giving out pillowside advice. Undock moar. Alternately, get docked.

So there. You are not special snowflake. You cannot find something special just you can find. If the rest of us can't farm lvl5s since highsec lvl5 removal, neither can you.Lol


1) All of the friends I regularly fly with in EVE I have met in lowsec. They are lots of Mission Runners, explorers, industrialists, small pvp gangs that work out of low sec that are both EVE smart and mature.

2) I have a list of who the "good hunters" are in my region. When they are in system I run missions that can be completed in two minutes or move to another system. Also "good hunters" don't wast their time on cheap ships, fly T1 and you won't get much hassle

3) Have you ever even run an L5? I have collected over 60 Mil Navy LP so that is around 600 missions. Most of the time I mission there is no one in system (because most of low sec just isn't that busy). The rest of the time I know who they are or I know that they

4) L5 missions fail penalty (and standing gain) is about the same as L4. You can fail/complete at the same ratio as you can L4 missions.

5) Sure my posting alt doesn't log-in very often, but I think I have as much experience running L5s in sub-caps as anyone who does it.

I'm sorry to inform you but there are lots and lots of L5 farmers, some might not be as happy to share their info as I am, but they exist and are happily farming in relative safety. I the last year I've lost maybe 300 million worth of ships to pirates (as opposed to maybe 3 billion worth of ships to NPCs)

-FM


2 minutes lvl5s... What were you smoking, and can i haz?Big smile

Tanking lvl5s in vanilla T1... T1 thanny?Bear

Nice too see someone's making friends in lulzsec in Eve. It is Eve, right?

L5 mission fail penalty is higher than l4, which is in turn a lot higher than turndown penalty. Turndown is x% from current standing (7 or higher) to -10, complete is x% from current to 10, fail is 4x% to -10. Good luck with that.


My main is in a corp full of people who run level 5's in [subcap] vanilla T1 ships, Faction T1 ships, T2 ships, you name it. And they are quite well off. Haven't you ever heard of the Dominix?

Some people just don't get it..
Pseudo Random
Doomheim
#31 - 2013-01-03 08:41:50 UTC
Paul Panala wrote:
I think you guys are missing my point. I am not saying there should not be risk, I am not saying I am upset that someone killed us. I am not saying that running a level 5 is impossible.

What I am saying is that for the reward offered, they are just not worth doing. Ask around, how many people run level 5 missions regularly?

My point is that they are broken because they are not used. It is no different than a ship that isn't used. How many people used the Kestrel for PvP before the last patch? No one. It was a broken ship. To say well you could…is silly, it was broken. If people don’t do level 5 missions they are broken, plain and simple.

Yes, D-Scan can give you some warning that someone is coming, but then what? You leave and hope to come back when he isn’t looking? It isn’t like mining were you can go somewhere else, that mission needs to be done in that location.


Level 5's are WELL worth the reward you're given for completing them. Sounds to me like you just don't know how to use those rewards.

Sounds to me like you're missioning in Caldari space if it's really that busy wherever you are. There are level 5 agents ALL OVER THE PLACE. Pick a system that isn't so highly traveled or hunted in. This game is full of resources for you to use. Learn to use them instead of coming on the forums complaining about things you don't even know anything about.
Pseudo Random
Doomheim
#32 - 2013-01-03 08:44:41 UTC
Paul Panala wrote:
Yes, actually I thought about it a lot. I have had the last week to think about it. I have also talked to many very experienced mission running players. They all say the same thing, level 4 is great, level 5 sucks, don't ever do them.

It looks like a lot of the replies are talking about mission running in general and not the very specific topic of running level 5 NPC missions. I do all kinds of stuff in low and null, I know my way around decently, but this level 5 stuff is just junk.

The only post I saw on here that really makes sense is that you should do level 5 missions in systems where your corp/friends already have a strong presence. Okay, makes sense.

Other comments like "do them in 5 minutes" or "use cheap T1 ships" it is pretty clear the poster has never run a level 5. The "your in low, you get what you get comments" are not really helpful. I understand that is how the game works. There is risk with every reward. I am just saying that getting 10 million ISK and 80k LP to split between your fleet, when everyone knows there is a chance they could lose their ship is a hard sell.


You are the one who never ran a level 5 until now. These people know what they are talking about. Go to www.eve-survival.org and look your missions up before you run them. We know a lot more about this than you do, so you'd do well to heed our advice.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#33 - 2013-01-03 13:20:49 UTC
Pseudo Random wrote:
Paul Panala wrote:
I think you guys are missing my point. I am not saying there should not be risk, I am not saying I am upset that someone killed us. I am not saying that running a level 5 is impossible.

What I am saying is that for the reward offered, they are just not worth doing. Ask around, how many people run level 5 missions regularly?

My point is that they are broken because they are not used. It is no different than a ship that isn't used. How many people used the Kestrel for PvP before the last patch? No one. It was a broken ship. To say well you could…is silly, it was broken. If people don’t do level 5 missions they are broken, plain and simple.

Yes, D-Scan can give you some warning that someone is coming, but then what? You leave and hope to come back when he isn’t looking? It isn’t like mining were you can go somewhere else, that mission needs to be done in that location.


Level 5's are WELL worth the reward you're given for completing them. Sounds to me like you just don't know how to use those rewards.

Sounds to me like you're missioning in Caldari space if it's really that busy wherever you are. There are level 5 agents ALL OVER THE PLACE. Pick a system that isn't so highly traveled or hunted in. This game is full of resources for you to use. Learn to use them instead of coming on the forums complaining about things you don't even know anything about.


Very well said, this is why I have 4 L5 agents I use a lot (I have jump clones for the chars i use in each of the 4 stations) across 3 races. Sure, i have to be somewhat careful i don't crash my standings to Gallente, minmatar or amarr and that can be quite a juggling act with all the faction missions you get, but the up side is that I have NEVER not been able to do lvl 5 missions when i choose. It took me the better part of a year to get my L5 mission operation up to it's current state.

The OP seems to think you can just jump into content and make it work. EVERYTHING in EVE takes effort and creativity, yet some people want short cuts pass that and think it's a good idea to buff rewards on content they don't understand "to make it worthwhile".

I make enough from lvl 5 missions to plex 4 accounts in less than a weeks time of casual playing, the ONLY times i don't do lvl 5s is when i get bored with them and end up in high sec doing incursions or null sec doing exploration.
Paul Panala
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#34 - 2013-01-03 15:50:08 UTC
@Fango Mango
I only asked you about the mission to substantiate some of your claims. I questioned your suggestion that level 5 missions should be run in under 5 minutes. Can you name a few missions you are able to do in less than 5 minutes? If not, than you sir have not been honest. You say I am not putting my money where my mouth is, yet I am the one who offered you 2bil ISK asking you for nothing in return. Did you accept my challenge? No. You asked me to more than double the amount and then give you the additional advantage of choosing the mission. I don’t doubt there may be A mission that can be done quickly. We are not talking about A mission, but level 5 missions in general. If you don’t have anything new to add to the discussion then we should agree to disagree on this point.

To everyone else. I am sorry if this thread got a negative spin. I probably should not have come in using words like "broken." I understand that a number of you make good ISK doing them, that is surprising and great, it actually gives me some hope. However, I did a forum search before posting, no one is talking about level 5 at all, and every experienced player I talk to says they are not worth doing. It is for those reasons I feel like they are I started this post. I still feel like minor changes should be made to make level 5 missions more appealing. If you reread my OP I think you will see that is all I was saying.

Last, to the surprisingly high number of posters who still think I am complaining about the NPC aspect of level 5s, try reading before you reply.
Sgt LoveDragon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2013-01-03 16:15:06 UTC
Paul Panala wrote:
@Fango Mango
I only asked you about the mission to substantiate some of your claims. I questioned your suggestion that level 5 missions should be run in under 5 minutes. Can you name a few missions you are able to do in less than 5 minutes? If not, than you sir have not been honest. You say I am not putting my money where my mouth is, yet I am the one who offered you 2bil ISK asking you for nothing in return. Did you accept my challenge? No. You asked me to more than double the amount and then give you the additional advantage of choosing the mission. I don’t doubt there may be A mission that can be done quickly. We are not talking about A mission, but level 5 missions in general. If you don’t have anything new to add to the discussion then we should agree to disagree on this point.

To everyone else. I am sorry if this thread got a negative spin. I probably should not have come in using words like "broken." I understand that a number of you make good ISK doing them, that is surprising and great, it actually gives me some hope. However, I did a forum search before posting, no one is talking about level 5 at all, and every experienced player I talk to says they are not worth doing. It is for those reasons I feel like they are I started this post. I still feel like minor changes should be made to make level 5 missions more appealing. If you reread my OP I think you will see that is all I was saying.

Last, to the surprisingly high number of posters who still think I am complaining about the NPC aspect of level 5s, try reading before you reply.



Ive been running 5's for a few years and always in lowsec. I've never had someone warp in on me because they don't get the chance and i am vigilant. Typically i only do the missions that take 5-10 minutes. No i am not going to tell you what they are because it is easy to figure out, and why should i help competitors. You need more experience in this before you call it broken.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2013-01-03 18:30:59 UTC
Paul Panala wrote:
@Fango Mango
I only asked you about the mission to substantiate some of your claims. I questioned your suggestion that level 5 missions should be run in under 5 minutes. Can you name a few missions you are able to do in less than 5 minutes? If not, than you sir have not been honest. You say I am not putting my money where my mouth is, yet I am the one who offered you 2bil ISK asking you for nothing in return. Did you accept my challenge? No. You asked me to more than double the amount and then give you the additional advantage of choosing the mission. I don’t doubt there may be A mission that can be done quickly. We are not talking about A mission, but level 5 missions in general. If you don’t have anything new to add to the discussion then we should agree to disagree on this point.

To everyone else. I am sorry if this thread got a negative spin. I probably should not have come in using words like "broken." I understand that a number of you make good ISK doing them, that is surprising and great, it actually gives me some hope. However, I did a forum search before posting, no one is talking about level 5 at all, and every experienced player I talk to says they are not worth doing. It is for those reasons I feel like they are I started this post. I still feel like minor changes should be made to make level 5 missions more appealing. If you reread my OP I think you will see that is all I was saying.

Last, to the surprisingly high number of posters who still think I am complaining about the NPC aspect of level 5s, try reading before you reply.


I wouldn't waste time with any of these forum trolls. Run tracker on them, and you'll see none of them are in l5 areas.

And don't take that one troll's bet on pulling the l5 himself. You know he's going to look through dozens of missions until he gets that drone one so he warp in and out in a frig. You pull a regular mission for him and see how he chews that in a single domi.Lol
Sgt LoveDragon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2013-01-03 21:26:19 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Paul Panala wrote:
@Fango Mango
I only asked you about the mission to substantiate some of your claims. I questioned your suggestion that level 5 missions should be run in under 5 minutes. Can you name a few missions you are able to do in less than 5 minutes? If not, than you sir have not been honest. You say I am not putting my money where my mouth is, yet I am the one who offered you 2bil ISK asking you for nothing in return. Did you accept my challenge? No. You asked me to more than double the amount and then give you the additional advantage of choosing the mission. I don’t doubt there may be A mission that can be done quickly. We are not talking about A mission, but level 5 missions in general. If you don’t have anything new to add to the discussion then we should agree to disagree on this point.

To everyone else. I am sorry if this thread got a negative spin. I probably should not have come in using words like "broken." I understand that a number of you make good ISK doing them, that is surprising and great, it actually gives me some hope. However, I did a forum search before posting, no one is talking about level 5 at all, and every experienced player I talk to says they are not worth doing. It is for those reasons I feel like they are I started this post. I still feel like minor changes should be made to make level 5 missions more appealing. If you reread my OP I think you will see that is all I was saying.

Last, to the surprisingly high number of posters who still think I am complaining about the NPC aspect of level 5s, try reading before you reply.


I wouldn't waste time with any of these forum trolls. Run tracker on them, and you'll see none of them are in l5 areas.

And don't take that one troll's bet on pulling the l5 himself. You know he's going to look through dozens of missions until he gets that drone one so he warp in and out in a frig. You pull a regular mission for him and see how he chews that in a single domi.Lol


Why would anyone claim to do level 5's and then post using the same character so someone can run a locator? Theres reasons why people do certain things that are not apparent at first glance.

Quite a few 5'scan be done solo, though they take a bit more time than 5 minutes since the expansion. Ive done several because i'm too lazy to undock a second ship. You're accusing people of being trolls without any knowledge of the subject on your part. If you think you do know about all level 5's and you have experience then i humbly apologize and wish you the best of luck mining, station trading or whatever it is that is your absolute max skill level nowdays.

Run a tracker. Really....
Fango Mango
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2013-01-03 23:54:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Fango Mango
sabre906 wrote:


I wouldn't waste time with any of these forum trolls. Run tracker on them, and you'll see none of them are in l5 areas.

And don't take that one troll's bet on pulling the l5 himself. You know he's going to look through dozens of missions until he gets that drone one so he warp in and out in a frig. You pull a regular mission for him and see how he chews that in a single domi.Lol


Sabre . . . You obviously don't know s**t about L5s

If you run Gallente/Minmattar there are 13 missions that can be completed in less than 10 minutes

1 Mission - Warp in Complete in 20 seconds - Warp out
3 Missions - Can be completed in 1-3 minutes
5 Missions - Can be completed in 3- 5 minutes
4 Missions - Can be completed in 5-10 minutes

That works out to a little less than half the missions.

Sure you *can* choose to accept the missions that take a fleet of 5 ships 2 hours to complete, but why *would* you if you are trying to maximize income and they all pay exactly the same.

-FM
Kestrix
The Whispering
#39 - 2013-01-04 20:52:34 UTC
Being low sec you could use a carrier for logistics.
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