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Science & Industry

 
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Real Time vs. Back End
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Bryan MacGuire
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-12-28 17:26:30 UTC
Question for the Dev team or anyone else who knows the answer. What's the reasoning behind why ore extraction values are done on the back end and then dropped into your hold at the end of the cycle versus being dropped into your cargohold as you mine it?
Pyus
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-12-28 17:53:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Pyus
Not a CCP Dev, but I would hazard a guess that it is beneficial to limit the transactions. This could be for both performance as well as to keep server logs from getting too insane. Not that they couldn't aggregate this information over time, but I guess my question is what the benefit would be of tracking it every second, or some other interval other than the cycle time of the module?

Edit: And to my knowledge it is tracked at smaller intervals of time on the server as this is what lets you stop your mining module mid-cycle and still receive the ore for that fraction of the cycle. The exception being for cases where you've depleted the asteroid during the cycle and then you only get what was left.
Bryan MacGuire
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-12-28 17:56:58 UTC
Saving time between loads, having the modules self-terminate once the hold is full. Time and load efficiency and all that jazz.
Bridgette d'Iberville
Better Killing Through Chemistry
#4 - 2012-12-28 18:00:48 UTC
Considering this game is a cleverly disguised Icelandic math tutoring program, I doubt they're going to do that.

For real though, I think Pyus is on the mark. It probably has something to do with the cost (possible performance issues) vs. benefit (player efficiency) and the costs are winning out.

"I considered a career in griefing, but then realized that I would never achieve the level of tear generation that CCP manages to do each and every expansion."
Pyus
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-12-28 18:14:30 UTC
Bryan MacGuire wrote:
Saving time between loads, having the modules self-terminate once the hold is full. Time and load efficiency and all that jazz.


Yeah there's a careful balance that I think the devs try to straddle between making things too efficient/easy for the player, and making them impossibly tedious and monotonous. Like Bridgette said, they like to provide opportunity for us to do maths (and click a lot) Smile

They also have a secret dev deals with Microsoft and Google docs for sending so much spreadsheet business their way. Blink
Bryan MacGuire
Doomheim
#6 - 2012-12-28 18:34:09 UTC
Pyus wrote:
They also have a secret dev deals with Microsoft and Google docs for sending so much spreadsheet business their way. Blink


I wouldn't doubt it one bit.

Thanks for all the input.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#7 - 2012-12-28 18:50:09 UTC
Bryan MacGuire wrote:
Question for the Dev team

I don't think I've seen a dev in S&I during the past 4 years. Sad
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-12-29 09:05:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdiel Kavash
Server load.

What's easier for server to tell the client?

12:21:41 "Mining Laser I activated."
12:21:42 "You mined 1 Veldspar."
12:21:43 "You mined 1 Veldspar."
12:21:44 "You mined 1 Veldspar."
12:21:45 "You mined 1 Veldspar."
12:21:46 "You mined 1 Veldspar."
...

or

12:21:41 "Mining Laser I Activated."
12:24:41 "You mined 180 Veldspar."
12:24:41 "Mining Laser I Deactivated."

Multiply that by the number of people mining at any time in all of EVE, and you get a pretty big saving.


Also thinking about it further, the engine might not be prepared for this at all. I can't think of any module that consumes or adds items to your inventory during its operation, except for at the start or end of a cycle.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-12-29 17:56:09 UTC
They ought to make cycles shorter. The hamsters aren't going to die from a few smaller more frequent calculations.
Leopold Jakuard
State Of Unrest
#10 - 2013-01-02 06:04:07 UTC
It would create server lag, especially with all those mining botters online 24/7 Roll . Seriously, there is little to no advantage receiving the ore every second or so compared to one load every cycle. On the other end, it makes life easier for the server, the clients and the network in general.
Halin Damal
Moderari Animo
#11 - 2013-01-03 19:06:00 UTC
I think it is also a legacy matter dating 10 years back. The rest is probably also true, back then the servers weren't as powerful as they are now.

Since this part of the code is likely 10 years old, none of the developers actually know what is going there and don't even dare to refacture it, typical 'don't fix what isn't broken'-mentality.

I have some understanding for this phenomenon, all of my clients have some legacy-codebases that noone even dares to sneeze at, because you might actually break it.

I wouldn't expect any changes here though, until CCP decides to completely redesign the entire Science & Industry part of this wonderful game.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#12 - 2013-01-03 19:36:21 UTC
so that people with strip miners can calculate how many cycles they can get before needing to switch rocks. If you always wait for the roid to die at the end of a cycle, then you might be getting worse yields than a mining frigate.

Its rewarding gameplay!

Math!

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Doctor Grugon
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-01-04 18:58:33 UTC
One thing that would be helpful would be to put a value indicator showing how much time is left or elapsed in the cycle or the percent of the cycle thats better than just guessing based on where the cycle indicator on the module is. or even have tick marks on the module. Say ten tick marks indicating 10%. its passive adn would aid in knowing where in the cycle we are a little better.

my .02 ISK

Are you standing where you should be?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#14 - 2013-01-04 19:15:58 UTC
People paying attention will always do better than people who just hit F1 and wait.

That's why I prefer it this way.

(though I'd agree with putting tick marks for percentages on cycle timers)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter