These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Science & Industry

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Is refining broken, or am I doing something wrong?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Vince Snetterton
#1 - 2012-12-30 19:21:28 UTC
My char has the following skills:

Refining V (pre-requisite for Refining Efficiency)
Refining Efficiency IV
Veldspar Processing II

VP II was a mistake when first learned some time ago, but now is relevant.

I have done some trial refines on Veldspar and reprocess on modules.
Both currently refine and reprocess at 97.9% efficiency (base station yield of 50%)
And yes, my station tax is 0%. Standings are above 6.7

Given that Veldspar refining is supposed to give me a 5% reduction in refining waste, per level, I am confused as to what is happening, as it appears this skill has zero impact on refine rates, since Scordite, Veldspar, and modules all refine at the same rate.

Further, I don't have scrap metal processing, so expected there to be a variation between veldspar and modules.

Can anyone explain what is going on?
From what I am seeing, even when I get refining efficiency V, I still won't have 100% efficiency for minerals like Veldspar. (I expect it to cap out at something like 99.5%)
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#2 - 2012-12-30 19:41:33 UTC
Vince Snetterton wrote:
My char has the following skills:

Refining V (pre-requisite for Refining Efficiency)
Refining Efficiency IV
Veldspar Processing II

VP II was a mistake when first learned some time ago, but now is relevant.

I have done some trial refines on Veldspar and reprocess on modules.
Both currently refine and reprocess at 97.9% efficiency (base station yield of 50%)
And yes, my station tax is 0%. Standings are above 6.7

Given that Veldspar refining is supposed to give me a 5% reduction in refining waste, per level, I am confused as to what is happening, as it appears this skill has zero impact on refine rates, since Scordite, Veldspar, and modules all refine at the same rate.

Further, I don't have scrap metal processing, so expected there to be a variation between veldspar and modules.

Can anyone explain what is going on?
From what I am seeing, even when I get refining efficiency V, I still won't have 100% efficiency for minerals like Veldspar. (I expect it to cap out at something like 99.5%)


You can get 100%

You need standings of 6.66 or above to get perfect refining.

the 'unrecoverable' is the amount lost to waste from effiecncy. if you hover over the net yield, you'll see it doesn't include the speciality skills.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-12-30 19:57:16 UTC
Vince Snetterton wrote:
My char has the following skills:

Refining V (pre-requisite for Refining Efficiency)
Refining Efficiency IV
Veldspar Processing II

VP II was a mistake when first learned some time ago, but now is relevant.

I have done some trial refines on Veldspar and reprocess on modules.
Both currently refine and reprocess at 97.9% efficiency (base station yield of 50%)
And yes, my station tax is 0%. Standings are above 6.7


Don't look at the yield. It doesn't include the ore-specific processing skills (and iirc, the tooltip says as much)

Look at the 'unrecoverable' column. If it says 0, then you have 100% refine (which is possible)
Vince Snetterton
#4 - 2012-12-30 19:57:28 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Vince Snetterton wrote:
My char has the following skills:

Refining V (pre-requisite for Refining Efficiency)
Refining Efficiency IV
Veldspar Processing II

VP II was a mistake when first learned some time ago, but now is relevant.

I have done some trial refines on Veldspar and reprocess on modules.
Both currently refine and reprocess at 97.9% efficiency (base station yield of 50%)
And yes, my station tax is 0%. Standings are above 6.7

Given that Veldspar refining is supposed to give me a 5% reduction in refining waste, per level, I am confused as to what is happening, as it appears this skill has zero impact on refine rates, since Scordite, Veldspar, and modules all refine at the same rate.

Further, I don't have scrap metal processing, so expected there to be a variation between veldspar and modules.

Can anyone explain what is going on?
From what I am seeing, even when I get refining efficiency V, I still won't have 100% efficiency for minerals like Veldspar. (I expect it to cap out at something like 99.5%)


You can get 100%

You need standings of 6.66 or above to get perfect refining.

the 'unrecoverable' is the amount lost to waste from effiecncy. if you hover over the net yield, you'll see it doesn't include the speciality skills.


Thanks, I see what you are saying now.
So in order to get Scordite to 100%, I am going to have to learn Scordite Processing, at least to L1.
Kiger Wulf
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2012-12-30 23:55:46 UTC
Elena Thiesant wrote:


Don't look at the yield. It doesn't include the ore-specific processing skills (and iirc, the tooltip says as much)

Look at the 'unrecoverable' column. If it says 0, then you have 100% refine (which is possible)


This. The unrecoverable column will let you know if you're at a perfect refine or not.

Fly safe.
Toku Jiang
Jiang Laboratories and Discovery
#6 - 2012-12-31 14:47:18 UTC
If you want perfect refine for any type of ore you will need to train that specific ore refining skill.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-12-31 15:17:05 UTC
Vince Snetterton wrote:
So in order to get Scordite to 100%, I am going to have to learn Scordite Processing, at least to L1.


Yes. I have perfect refine for all the highsec ores with Refinery Efficiency at 4 and enough levels in the ore-specific processing skill to make up the 100%
Sidrat Flush
School of Applied Knowledge
#8 - 2013-01-02 19:39:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Sidrat Flush
Now you will want to use the excel sheet below as it'll tell you the refine rate for every reprocessable item published in game. The Build sheet will tell you what you need to manufacture every item hat uses a blueprint to manufacture.

Have fun good luck and its excel 2007 only as free spreadsheets dont have the power to run the pivot tables.

Edit. You may want scrap metal processing at some point too.

Its time to stand up against the bad empire based CEO telling falsehoods about what new characters can accomplish and pushing them towards an in game experience of drudgery and loneliness keeping them in the shadow of ignorance for at nest their own profit at worse apathy towards all the experiences that Eve has to offer.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#9 - 2013-01-03 03:28:08 UTC
Toku Jiang wrote:
If you want perfect refine for any type of ore you will need to train that specific ore refining skill.

All you need to refine and reprocess ANYTHING (ore, ice, scrap) to get 100% yield without material skills:

  • NPC station with 50% base reprocessing facilities
  • Refining 5
  • Refinery Efficiency 5
  • Slot 8: Hardwiring - Zainou 'Beancounter' H50 [2% Refining implant]
  • +6.67 standing with the NPC corporation

I used the implant for a long time just for reprocessing scrap, but I finally broke down and trained Metallurgy 5.
LordSpock
Doomheim
#10 - 2013-01-03 09:42:48 UTC
Do you actually need the ore specific processing skill to lvl4 or lvl5 to get 100%?

Because I always have waste when refining. Refining + efficiency to lvl5. Veldpsar, Scordite, Pyrox, Jaspet and Kernite to lvl4 and plagioclase to lvl3 (shoudl I get this to 4 as well?).
The table shows 0 at the column "We take" because my standings are good, but refinery efficiency tells me 99,5% and I always have unrecoverable minerals.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-01-03 10:04:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Elena Thiesant
LordSpock wrote:
Do you actually need the ore specific processing skill to lvl4 or lvl5 to get 100%?


No. You should have 100% at refining 5, refinery efficiency 4 and the ore-specific at 2 (or maybe 3, I don't have the formula offhand) assuming you're using a 50% base refinery

The refining % at the top Does Not take the ore-specific skills into account (and iirc the tooltip says as much)

If you still have unrecoverable, are you using a lower base refining station (30% or 21%) or a refining array in a POS?
LordSpock
Doomheim
#12 - 2013-01-03 10:06:45 UTC
Elena Thiesant wrote:
LordSpock wrote:
Do you actually need the ore specific processing skill to lvl4 or lvl5 to get 100%?


No. You should have 100% at refining 5, refinery efficiency 4 and the ore-specific at 2 (or maybe 3, I don't have the formula offhand)

The refining % at the top Does Not take the ore-specific skills into account (and iirc the tooltip says as much)


Yeah I understoodn that, I just don't understand why I still have waste/unrecoverable minerals. I only mine the ores I mentioned and have those (except plagio) trained to lvl4.
Am I missing something?
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-01-03 10:14:11 UTC
Elena Thiesant wrote:
If you still have unrecoverable, are you using a lower base refining station (30% or 21%) or a refining array in a POS?
LordSpock
Doomheim
#14 - 2013-01-03 10:15:33 UTC
Elena Thiesant wrote:
Elena Thiesant wrote:
If you still have unrecoverable, are you using a lower base refining station (30% or 21%) or a refining array in a POS?



Nope station, 50% base, 8.23 standings with corp.
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-01-03 10:18:48 UTC
LordSpock wrote:
Elena Thiesant wrote:
LordSpock wrote:
Do you actually need the ore specific processing skill to lvl4 or lvl5 to get 100%?


No. You should have 100% at refining 5, refinery efficiency 4 and the ore-specific at 2 (or maybe 3, I don't have the formula offhand)

The refining % at the top Does Not take the ore-specific skills into account (and iirc the tooltip says as much)


Yeah I understoodn that, I just don't understand why I still have waste/unrecoverable minerals. I only mine the ores I mentioned and have those (except plagio) trained to lvl4.
Am I missing something?


Do you have refining efficiency trained at all? Have you tried refining at another station (literally just bring a batch to another station) and see what value you get?
LordSpock
Doomheim
#16 - 2013-01-03 10:28:05 UTC
Styth spiting wrote:

Do you have refining efficiency trained at all? Have you tried refining at another station (literally just bring a batch to another station) and see what value you get?


Yep refinery efficiency at lvl5, just as refining. I'll go grab a batch when at home and see what numbers I get exactly.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-01-03 13:08:51 UTC
LordSpock wrote:
Elena Thiesant wrote:
Elena Thiesant wrote:
If you still have unrecoverable, are you using a lower base refining station (30% or 21%) or a refining array in a POS?



Nope station, 50% base, 8.23 standings with corp.


With a 50% base station, both refining and refinery efficiency at 5 and the ore-processing at > 3, you will have 100% refine. Hence either the skills aren't all 5s and 4s or the station's base is not 50%. Have a look, double-check the numbers.

Which station are you refining at?
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#18 - 2013-01-04 03:20:37 UTC
Vince Snetterton wrote:
So in order to get Scordite to 100%, I am going to have to learn Scordite Processing, at least to L1.


Yes. From what I've heard, as long as the sum of Refining Efficiency and the ore-specific refining skill is 5, then you get 0% refining waste in a 50% base refinery station (although you may still get a refining tax, if your standing is below one of 6.67 or 6.70, including Connections skill bonus).
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#19 - 2013-01-04 03:22:46 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Toku Jiang wrote:
If you want perfect refine for any type of ore you will need to train that specific ore refining skill.

All you need to refine and reprocess ANYTHING (ore, ice, scrap) to get 100% yield without material skills:

  • NPC station with 50% base reprocessing facilities
  • Refining 5
  • Refinery Efficiency 5
  • Slot 8: Hardwiring - Zainou 'Beancounter' H50 [2% Refining implant]
  • +6.67 standing with the NPC corporation

I used the implant for a long time just for reprocessing scrap, but I finally broke down and trained Metallurgy 5.


Note that while the above is one possible patch to 0% waste refining, you do benefit from having the ore-specific refining skillz, because they let you utilize T2 strippers which require toy to use T1 or T2 crystals as charges.

IIRC, the standard advice for anybody who's going to mine ore, is to train Refining Efficiency only to 1, and train the ore-specific skillz to 4, because that 4 lets you use the T2 crystals.
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#20 - 2013-01-04 03:24:35 UTC
Elena Thiesant wrote:
If you still have unrecoverable, are you using a lower base refining station (30% or 21%) or a refining array in a POS?


That's most likely the reason. Many stations are "good", having a base of 50%. I've seen ones with bases of 35%, 32% and 30%, and have heard but probably not seen ones with a base of 40%. I don't think I've ever seen or heard about base 21% stations.

You can keep piling skill on, and get some of the semi-bad stations up to 0% waste. At least I think someone, maybe Tau, once told me that it's possible to achieve 0% waste with a 40% base station, but not with anything worse than 40%.
12Next page