Missions & Complexes

I just tried my first level 5 mission, unless something changes, my last. We had a small fleet that should have been able to complete the mission, but within minutes a pilot came in, killed the logistics ship and left. We tried a few days later, that player was not online, local looked good, only a few neutrals. Same thing, within minutes of starting a player came in, popped a ship and left.

You can't bring PvP ships because missions as they currently work require different fits. Larger fleets might work, but the reward isn't good enough to make it worth someone's time if split too many ways. After talking to several people it seems like no one runs level 5s for that exact reason. AKA, it is broken.

I have a few ideas to lower the mission runner's risk a little. I am not suggesting they should be perfectly safe, they are still in low sec and you should still have risk from other players. Missions runners do them to make money, the loss of a single ship more than negates the value of the entire mission. If losing one or more ships it highly likely then there is no point.

Any one of these should help (I am not suggesting all be used):

-Change combat scanners to only show the deadspace area the mission is in, not individual ships. This increases the risk to the attacking pilot, he doesn't know what fleet he is warping into.
-Lock the acceleration gates so they can only be activated by the pilot, his fleet and his corp (60 second weapon flag should also block access to prevent PvP players from hiding behind them)
-Give the victim 30 day kill rights if killed in a deadspace room.

Another aproach is simply to make running level 5 missions more valuable to offset the risk.

Thoughts? Has anyone else had luck running level 5s?

I agree with what you are saying in theory. The problem with dscanning is that your mission timing is at their mercy. Saying that you are doing it wrong if you can’t finish a level 5 mission in 5 minutes is not right. If you have a big enough fleet to stomp it, then yes, but there isn’t enough ISK to make sure a fleet viable. If you don’t think they are broken, fine, but the large number of players who don’t run them for the reasons I mentioned would disagree.

EVE is broken because some one PVP'd me when I wanted to PVE.

Pretty much this.

I dual box lvl 5s in a tengu/loki-no ligistics support set up.

I have had no problems, but if ANY neutrals or reds are in system i either warp off/cloakup/dock or I spam D-scan and get out of the mission as soon as i see combat probes. Even with the new AI changes I've had zero problems. On a rare occasion I'll do an open site lvl5 with a carrier (not so much since AI change).



Yes, EVERYONE else who is running lvl 5s. You're simply doing a lot of things wrong. LVL 5s don't need changing,your method is what needs changing.

1) Normal people make friends. Lulzsec ganker alts of normal ppl don't make friends. I know I don't on mine.
2) Good hunters work fast, especially with multiple targets. By the time you see the probes, they're already in warp, by the time you get the whole fleet to leave, someone's getting left behind.
3) All l5 systems are camped, heavily, even obscure ones like Khanid Navy, No exceptions.
4) Lvl 5 mission fail penalty = no more agent access.
5) Virgin giving out pillowside advice. Undock moar. Alternately, get docked.

So there. You are not special snowflake. You cannot find something special just you can find. If the rest of us can't farm lvl5s since highsec lvl5 removal, neither can you.

How about moving level 5 missions back to high sec.

Seriously. The reasons they where taken out of high no longer apply.

It was to much reward for group PVE in high sec with low risk. - Incursions give greater rewards and are in high sec. Level 5 missions would fill the gap between solo level 4 missions running and larger fleet incursion ops. Level 5 missions can be done with a fleet of 3-5 ships.

It was to low risk having high end content in high sec. - High sec is not as safe as it used to be. And the changes to NPC A.I. have made level 5 missions much harder. The risk/reward is at a level that would fit nicely into the current state of high sec.

The rewards have been nerfed as a side effect of other changes and fixes reducing the income of ratters and missions runners.

There really is no good reason why level 5 missions should not be available in high sec. A lot of things have changed since they were moved. It is time to bring them back.

1) All of the friends I regularly fly with in EVE I have met in lowsec. They are lots of Mission Runners, explorers, industrialists, small pvp gangs that work out of low sec that are both EVE smart and mature.

2) I have a list of who the "good hunters" are in my region. When they are in system I run missions that can be completed in two minutes or move to another system. Also "good hunters" don't wast their time on cheap ships, fly T1 and you won't get much hassle

3) Have you ever even run an L5? I have collected over 60 Mil Navy LP so that is around 600 missions. Most of the time I mission there is no one in system (because most of low sec just isn't that busy). The rest of the time I know who they are or I know that they

4) L5 missions fail penalty (and standing gain) is about the same as L4. You can fail/complete at the same ratio as you can L4 missions.

5) Sure my posting alt doesn't log-in very often, but I think I have as much experience running L5s in sub-caps as anyone who does it.

I'm sorry to inform you but there are lots and lots of L5 farmers, some might not be as happy to share their info as I am, but they exist and are happily farming in relative safety. I the last year I've lost maybe 300 million worth of ships to pirates (as opposed to maybe 3 billion worth of ships to NPCs)

-FM

I think you guys are missing my point. I am not saying there should not be risk, I am not saying I am upset that someone killed us. I am not saying that running a level 5 is impossible.

What I am saying is that for the reward offered, they are just not worth doing. Ask around, how many people run level 5 missions regularly?

My point is that they are broken because they are not used. It is no different than a ship that isn't used. How many people used the Kestrel for PvP before the last patch? No one. It was a broken ship. To say well you could…is silly, it was broken. If people don’t do level 5 missions they are broken, plain and simple.

Yes, D-Scan can give you some warning that someone is coming, but then what? You leave and hope to come back when he isn’t looking? It isn’t like mining were you can go somewhere else, that mission needs to be done in that location.

Yes, actually I thought about it a lot. I have had the last week to think about it. I have also talked to many very experienced mission running players. They all say the same thing, level 4 is great, level 5 sucks, don't ever do them.

It looks like a lot of the replies are talking about mission running in general and not the very specific topic of running level 5 NPC missions. I do all kinds of stuff in low and null, I know my way around decently, but this level 5 stuff is just junk.

The only post I saw on here that really makes sense is that you should do level 5 missions in systems where your corp/friends already have a strong presence. Okay, makes sense.

Other comments like "do them in 5 minutes" or "use cheap T1 ships" it is pretty clear the poster has never run a level 5. The "your in low, you get what you get comments" are not really helpful. I understand that is how the game works. There is risk with every reward. I am just saying that getting 10 million ISK and 80k LP to split between your fleet, when everyone knows there is a chance they could lose their ship is a hard sell.

Dude, really? Have you read anything I have said? Did I ever say they were too hard? No. The only thing I have said this entire time is that interference from other players makes them not worth running. I then suggested a few simple tweaks that would reduce how easy it is for another player to warp into your room. That is all.

How about this? Instead of putting me down why don't we take a little challenge? I'll accept a level 5 mission, you come run it alone. If you can finish it in less than 5 minutes with a <500,000,000 ship/fit I will give you 2,000,000,000ISK. I will come in my pod and capture the video to post to YouTube. Can you do it? You can’t and you know it.

I am even ignoring the fact that compared to the earning potential of level 5 missions; a 450mil ship is not really cheap. I don't mind risking expinsive ships for something important or something fun, but missions running is neither.