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attacking ships with no defense or offense

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Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#161 - 2013-01-02 00:09:20 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
You don't know much about cats or EVE.


I have three cats. But by all means, don't let little things like facts get in the way of your self-important delusions. Keep trying and you might make assistant manager someday.

0/10

The sound of the Amarrian heart
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#162 - 2013-01-02 00:12:57 UTC
Lady Katherine Devonshire wrote:
I have three cats.
Maybe you should actually study them, then. And EVE. You should probably also not generalise from an insignificant sample.
Jianna Kring
Glimmer Rats
#163 - 2013-01-02 04:05:20 UTC
its a sandbox. theres as much honour as you can convince others to adhere to and enforce.
good luck with that tho...Shocked
Atticus Lowa
Lowa Corp Industries and Security
#164 - 2013-01-02 04:43:17 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Honour is irrelevant to most people.
Killmails are relevant to some people.
Gain is relevant to most people.

So a defenceless ship is almost always worth killing to most people, given that there is always at least the chance of gain plus a killmail.

Podkilling is a bit different, there is no gain.


Podkilling is for ego building... and implant losses... so its mostly to be a jerk

Still honor builds trust, and if your one of the FEW people who can be believed to be trustworthy... in THIS game...
But no never anticipate people will not outright kill you regardless of other circumstances... keeping your head down usually does it.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#165 - 2013-01-02 05:15:57 UTC
Having standards is work. It requires you to think.

While people pretend they want that in EVE what they really mean is they want to be able to min/max and number crunch.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#166 - 2013-01-02 05:28:49 UTC
Skydell wrote:
Having standards is work. It requires you to think.

While people pretend they want that in EVE what they really mean is they want to be able to min/max and number crunch.


That's simply not true, everyone has lines they simply will not cross. The problem is, a lot of people forget that EVE is a game where those lines don't apply. Blowing up pixels isn't the same thing as [insert lines you won't cross IRL here].

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#167 - 2013-01-02 05:41:14 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Skydell wrote:
Having standards is work. It requires you to think.

While people pretend they want that in EVE what they really mean is they want to be able to min/max and number crunch.


That's simply not true, everyone has lines they simply will not cross. The problem is, a lot of people forget that EVE is a game where those lines don't apply. Blowing up pixels isn't the same thing as [insert lines you won't cross IRL here].


EVE is an MMO. A social scenario. There are plenty of people in EVE who have no bottom. They will scrape the barrel like there is no tomorrow and do anything they are allowed to get away with to 'win EVE'. You and I both know it. EVE is supposed to be built on consequence and the fact is, there is none.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#168 - 2013-01-02 06:20:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Skydell wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Skydell wrote:
Having standards is work. It requires you to think.

While people pretend they want that in EVE what they really mean is they want to be able to min/max and number crunch.


That's simply not true, everyone has lines they simply will not cross. The problem is, a lot of people forget that EVE is a game where those lines don't apply. Blowing up pixels isn't the same thing as [insert lines you won't cross IRL here].


EVE is an MMO. A social scenario. There are plenty of people in EVE who have no bottom. They will scrape the barrel like there is no tomorrow and do anything they are allowed to get away with to 'win EVE'. You and I both know it. EVE is supposed to be built on consequence and the fact is, there is none.


Well, there are consequences in EvE, they just aren't the same sort of consequences you'd face for such behavior in reality.

When your character simply need have no fear of death, and imprisonment isn't really a viable option (I suppose you can always find a way to commit suicide if you really want to... but actually being locked up makes for a boring game), the only consequences that can befall you are loss of possessions or loss of status (reputation). The former can sting for awhile, the latter (if done properly) can leave a mark you won't soon forget.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#169 - 2013-01-02 06:41:29 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Skydell wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Skydell wrote:
Having standards is work. It requires you to think.

While people pretend they want that in EVE what they really mean is they want to be able to min/max and number crunch.


That's simply not true, everyone has lines they simply will not cross. The problem is, a lot of people forget that EVE is a game where those lines don't apply. Blowing up pixels isn't the same thing as [insert lines you won't cross IRL here].


EVE is an MMO. A social scenario. There are plenty of people in EVE who have no bottom. They will scrape the barrel like there is no tomorrow and do anything they are allowed to get away with to 'win EVE'. You and I both know it. EVE is supposed to be built on consequence and the fact is, there is none.


Well, there are consequences in EvE, they just are the same sort of consequences you'd face for such behavior in reality.

When your character simply need have no fear of death, and imprisonment isn't really a viable option (I suppose you can always find a way to commit suicide if you really want to... but actually being locked up makes for a boring game), the only consequences that can befall you are loss of possessions or loss of status (reputation). The former can sting for awhile, the latter (if done properly) can leave a mark you won't soon forget.


Consequences in EVE are purely idealistic with no mechanics to enforce them. Why I push for standards in EVE, without a mechanic to back them it's fluff and that's what consequences are in EVE. Laughable fluff. I'm not gullible. I really don't know how CCP can change it and make us accountable. it isn't an accusation, just an observation.
Thomas Gore
Blackfyre Enterprise
#170 - 2013-01-02 06:41:32 UTC
Lashauna wrote:
is this all EVE is about?


Pretty much. I don't know how you can come up with anything constructive about that.
Thomas Gore
Blackfyre Enterprise
#171 - 2013-01-02 06:54:20 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
The concept of 'honour' in applied violence died with chivalric tournaments sometimes around the 15th century. Arthur Conan Doyle's "Sir Nigel" and "The White Company" are a delightfully nostalgic and sentimental farewell salute to the concept. For the last half-millenium, professionals have got the job done with a minimum of risk because dying so someone else can read a god damb bedtime story is possibly the worst cause I can imagine.


"The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his."

- George S. Patton
Flag Bravo
#172 - 2013-01-02 06:55:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Flag Bravo
I think people play eve for different reasons. If all I had to do in the game was to shoot others then I wouldn't be here. I would have died from boredom long ago.
Yes, pvp bores me. You shoot me, I shoot you, you shoot me......
Thankfully there are still things to do in eve that do not involve pvp, and that is why I still resub.
As for shooting defenceless ships that are doing you no harm, well, that 's just plain sad.

But I get your drift. It would be nice if you could fly to low-sec and join in /meet, other players................before they kill you. Ugh
Frying Doom
#173 - 2013-01-02 07:04:08 UTC
Thomas Gore wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
The concept of 'honour' in applied violence died with chivalric tournaments sometimes around the 15th century. Arthur Conan Doyle's "Sir Nigel" and "The White Company" are a delightfully nostalgic and sentimental farewell salute to the concept. For the last half-millenium, professionals have got the job done with a minimum of risk because dying so someone else can read a god damb bedtime story is possibly the worst cause I can imagine.


"The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his."

- George S. Patton

Please note the above quote does not say "The object of war is not to die for your country, So lets go club defenseless villagers to death"

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
ISD TYPE40
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#174 - 2013-01-02 07:43:51 UTC
I've cleaned this topic of a lot of troll, off topic and flame posts. Since it appears the discussion still has legs I'll leave it open, but please keep it on topic and free of personal attacks, thank you - ISD Type40.

[b]ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]
Spacing Cowboy
Perkone
Caldari State
#175 - 2013-01-02 07:48:36 UTC
Why? So many reasons already mentioned:

* boredom
* becouse i can
* fish for rage ( commedy vallue )
* profit
* politics ( i can hit you everywhere i want )


E-honor has little to do with it, its a game, and the nice thing about this sandbox is, we just dont play the same game. We only share the playfield.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#176 - 2013-01-02 10:13:22 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
The concept of 'honour' in applied violence died with chivalric tournaments sometimes around the 15th century. Arthur Conan Doyle's "Sir Nigel" and "The White Company" are a delightfully nostalgic and sentimental farewell salute to the concept. For the last half-millenium, professionals have got the job done with a minimum of risk because dying so someone else can read a god damb bedtime story is possibly the worst cause I can imagine.

…also, the reason the French lost at Agincourt was because they were a bunch of killwh0res who wanted points for getting as many squishy peasants as possible on their score board, only this time, they got baited and kited.

Sounds awfully familiar even some 600 years later, doesn't it?



nerf longbows buff knights tbh

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Lexmana
#177 - 2013-01-02 10:17:24 UTC
This guy was asking for it being AFK in a plex. They are even worse now. The gunless rifter brigade at least had prop mods and some tank.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#178 - 2013-01-02 10:18:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcanis
Frying Doom wrote:
Thomas Gore wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
The concept of 'honour' in applied violence died with chivalric tournaments sometimes around the 15th century. Arthur Conan Doyle's "Sir Nigel" and "The White Company" are a delightfully nostalgic and sentimental farewell salute to the concept. For the last half-millenium, professionals have got the job done with a minimum of risk because dying so someone else can read a god damb bedtime story is possibly the worst cause I can imagine.


"The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his."

- George S. Patton

Please note the above quote does not say "The object of war is not to die for your country, So lets go club defenseless villagers to death"


I suggest you read the books I mentioned. Even Conan-Doyle's frankly biased and sentimental fictional account of end of the era of knighthood doesn't hide that, in fact, all the looting, sexual surprises and pillaging wasn't just an unfortunate by-product of campaigning by those noble gentlemen, it was in fact the entire object of the exercise.

The sack of Constantinople is another saultary example.

The equation is very simple: You have stuff that I want and that other guy has stuff that I want. I think I can take it from you easily, but I think that other guy has a better change of defending himself if I try and take it from him. So I'm going to try and take it from you.

EDIT: And civilians have always been targets in wartime. Can you name a war where they weren't?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#179 - 2013-01-02 10:25:05 UTC
Lady Katherine Devonshire wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
You don't know much about cats or EVE.


I have three cats. But by all means, don't let little things like facts get in the way of your self-important delusions. Keep trying and you might make assistant manager someday.

0/10



Being called self-important by you is like being called an idiot by Homer Simpson.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#180 - 2013-01-02 12:37:04 UTC
Firstly, I don't think honor is like a hat that you can just take off when you enter EVE Online, and then put back on when you exit to the "real" world. I think it's more a determination to play fair, hard, yes, creatively, yes, but ultimately, fair. Some people are not determined to play fair, though, not even in real life. So to expect fairness in EVE is naive.

And, what is honorable in this game? Is it never shooting people who can't fight back? Is it never shooting people who can't fight back effectively? Is it never shooting people who don't want to fight? Is it only shooting people if you have a good reason? Is it never using ECM? Is it never outnumbering your opponent? Some whack-jobs would have us believe honor is never using profanity or smack talking. (I say **** that and **** them.) It's a slippery slope, this "honor". I think that after all the rules had been nailed down, it would take a computer program to answer the simple quesiton of whether or not to open fire. But, that doesn't work and that isn't fun. I don't want to stare at a flow chart for 10 minutes every time I have to make a decision in this game.

Now, IS there honor in this game? Hell yes there is. Blues don't shoot blues. Killing your corpmates is a cardinal sin, and anyone who is known to do it is probably a pariah. Look at incursions. People put very expensive ships on the line just on the word of the other people in their fleet that they will all work faithfully to clear an incursion site. I've known a good number of freighter pilots to adhere to their own sense of personal honor, even at great inconvenience to themselves. It's really, again, just a matter of "What IS honor?". It is your own personal ideology of what is right, what is fair, what is good, and the actions you take to do and be right, fair, and good.

Well, Shirley, we don't all adhere to YOUR sense of honor. We don't all believe that giving someone a pass for making a stupid and costly mistake is the way to go. Some of us believe in "tough love". Some of us believe that if the light of hope in you can be extinguished so easily, then it is just as well that we extinguish it. Some of us are just mad. Some of us are just having fun, and we can't experience it from your perspective, maybe because we lack empathy or maybe because you aren't articulate enough to communicate it to us. In any event, beating us over the head with your idea of honor is probably not the way to fix this. Instead, let me make 2 suggestions:

1. Start an organization (a corp?). Outline your own personal understanding of the definition of "honor" and recruit others who adhere to it. Try to influence the rest of the playerbase to adhere to it. Pit that definition against other definitions of "honor" that you disagree with. Measure people's actions against your concept of "honor" and voice your opinion of exactly how you think they have failed. Remember to do that, even when you are the one who has failed.

2. Admit to yourself that you are saddened that you lost your ship. Admit that you are disappointed and even angry at the people who caused the loss. Admit that you are one of those people, the only one whom you can control. Say these words to yourself: "I will do better." Understand what happened to you. Figure out a way to keep it from happening to you again. Adapt. Re-engage.