EVE General Discussion

It's like you're using words that I'm reading, but we think they mean very different things. Apparently making 0.0 industry remotely as good as that in hi-sec is "saying it's wrong to do incursions/lvl 4 missions, manufacture or have trade hubs in highsec" in your lexicon, and I just can't communicate across a barrier that wide.

Well I doubt we're going to agree on anything, and I'm even more sceptical that I'll get anything useful out of discussing this any further with you, so fly safe.

"Apparently" is where you make things go wrong when you post. Again you're passively aggressively insinuating things I'm saying. My response to what you said is exactly that; a respo9nse to what you said. It's not an ideal. That's where your discussion goes wrong, you wish to lump things together into some sort of kneejerk response and therefore makes it seem like you aren't trying for any sort of impartial "balance" (which shouldn't exist anyways).

You don't have to take away from 1 thing to give to another! Trust me, I care more about NON highsec than I care about highsec, I just realize that there is a symbiotic relationship between all the different areas of space and focuses are stronger in one than another, like I did mention earlier about it being paper/rock/scissors which I also noticed you tended to conveniently forget in using my "incursions/lvl 4 missions..." quote as being some sort of anti null industry.

Make a good point, and I'll agree with it. But until then...

Fair enough Malcanis, fly safe.

Just keep in mind I will reply to your posts as I would anyone else's if they seem to be jaded towards one side more than the other one any sort of "versus" or "balance" comes into play.

o/

In eve, high sec nerfs you!
All the high end ores are not present in high sec.
You can already make much more isk in null faster with very little effort.

If there is something that needs nerfing, are defenetly those high ends moons in null.
There is way too much PASSIVE isk made from moons in null

I would like to state that the higher income available in Null is in large parts of SOV Null and it is mostly for people who like shooting things.

For people making things it is, well, crap.

It is crap all over space at -0.0, you increase your risk to make more isk but at the end of the day you end up spending more time building and mining with your hi-sec "alts" than on your supposed main characters.

I am one of the people that would like smaller alliances to have an easier time in Null and for Industry people to have a real reason to go there.

Lets face it I can make pretty good isk running Radar sites in a WH or plexes in Null but its all shooting red crosses which from my point of view is crap and with industry you shoot at the rocks and soon enough someone will shoot you, so not only do you not make enough money but you can lose money because the base amount is crappy, especially if you add in the massive extra risk you actually take exporting goods.

NPC facilities are so good why does anyone really want their own POS besides when you have no choice or you are impatient to research a BPO other than that an NPC facility is the way to go atm.

NPC facilities are set up like EVE has been in newbie friendly mode for 10 years and everyone is a newbie.

Oh and yes Super AFK Moon mining needs to die in a bloody accident. (People can hardly complain about AFK mining when there are POSs AFK mining)

A player built outpost is a "sandbox" feature. (It would be more so if it were destructible)

POS's should definitely have refining skills at 100% and instantaneous , current 75% is simply another reason why people don't risk living in null/lo.

I do love how hisec players cite the "sandbox" as a compelling reason why hisec should have the ridiculously high rewards and convenience it offers, while demanding that other aspects of the "sandbox" be curtailed if not removed (i.e. suicide ganking, canflipping, etc.)

"You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar."

The point I've been trying to make, with the sadist/masochist remarks, is that there just aren't enough masochists around to make things entertaining enough for the sadists. Its an ecological problem.

People playing this game, who aren't masochists, don't want to see hours of game effort destroyed in what they perceive (rightly or wrongly) as unfair, unbalanced and unprovoked pvp. They just don't see the cost/benefit calculation being in low/nullsecs favor. They'll see the ease with which they can lose ingame toys (what some call 'space ships') being much MUCH greater than the ease of acquiring or replacing those losses. They put in X hours playing the game to get some toys, then see the toys destroyed by other players in the blink of an eye and think "hey now I have to play this game for another X hours so that what? They can get blowed up again? And those X hours weren't even fun? And getting my toys blowed up wasn't fun either? Pfft no I'm outta here."

So they stay away from low/nullsec because they aren't masochists and don't feel that they are playing this game in order to provide entertainment for 'tear seekers'.

Putting more vinegar into hisec won't help. They'll just leave the game and go somewhere else. It'd make it less fun for the non-masochists. If you bring the same level of risk to them in hisec the equation just goes against gameplay entirely.

Putting more honey into low/null WILL help (or possibly making the existing honey more accessible to the players who aren't totally entrenched in those areas).

Thing is there just arent enough people of appropriate personality types to make it work.

Profit/loss calculation. Include fun in the equation.

Lowsec/null doesnt have enough appeal to enough players. Its not that high is too good.